Should Soviet troops have captured Adolf Hitler and taken him to Vienna to be executed?

a reply to: Grenade

Cites like that - the Daily Express??? Really??? And a straight-to-DVD movie that historians laugh at??? - do not a case make.
There has never been any reliable proof that Hitler left Berlin alive. Not a scrap, not a jot, not an atom.
C'mon, this is silliness.
This is also thread-drift. There was never a chance that Hitler would risk being taken alive. not after Mussolini's death and public dangling.

there was a woman, a black woman, claiming she married hitlor in argentina.
he had a kid with her.

he escaped, then moved there to live out the rest of his r0thschild funded retirement.

a reply to: drongosrevenge

There were also reports of Nazi bases on the moons, accessed by flying saucers. None of any of that has ever been backed up by reality.

Come on folks. The last days of Hitler were spent in the bunker by the Reich Chancellery in Berlin. The famous scene in Downfall where Hitler rants about Steiner disobeying (insane and impossible) orders and that the war was lost was on April 22. He then started asking questions about the best way to commit suicide.
The last picture of Hitler was taken on April 28 as he looks at the ruins of the Reich Chancellery.
Let's point out a few things. Firstly by that point Berlin was completely surrounded by Soviet Armies, US and Russian forces had met on the Elbe, the British were at the Baltic and Nazi Germany was utterly defeated. Teleportation aside, the only way out was either walking (not advised - Hitler's secretary Traudl Junge made it out dressed as a German soldier, but then no-one was looking for her and Bormann apparently didn't get far in his attempt at a breakout - his body was buried near Lehrter station and was identified via DNA in 1998) or by air. However, by April 30 all the airfields of Berlin had been captured by the Soviets and the last flight out was by a Fiesler Storch flown by Hanna Reitsch, with the Ritter von Greim next to her, who had been made head of the Luftwaffe (itself a corpse). They left Hitler behind - he refused to leave.
Hitler was, by this point, a physical wreck. A year after the bomb attempt on his life he was a stooped, shambling wreck, with a shaking left hand, a shuffling walk and absolutely no strength in his handshake, as numerous people like von Weidling, testified to. As by this point his personal doctor Morell had been evacuated Hitler was no longer being given eyedrops that contained coc aine, so there's a good chance that he was crashing from drug withdrawal.
There is no chance that a man as physically unfit as Hitler was by then could have gotten out of Berlin. Not unless they bundled him into a mini-sub that could teleport through all the wreckage blocking the way along the canals and rivers of the area.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Here's a left wing publication to help you absorb the information.

Guardian Article

Any idea why the FBI spent millions investigating an obvious lie? Notice you never addressed that point.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

You're very sure of yourself.

I tend not to engage with self righteous zealots who parrot orthodoxy and leave no room for reasonable enquiry. I don't know why i expected anything else from you, given your posting history.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Here's a left wing publication to help you absorb the information.

Guardian Article

Did you read it? It contains multiple references to plagiarism, absolutely no proof and ends with:

The claims about Hitler's life in exile in Argentina have been ridiculed by historian Guy Walters, who pronounced them "2,000% rubbish" when the book came out. "It's an absolute disgrace. There's no substance to it at all. It appeals to the deluded fantasies of conspiracy theorists and has no place whatsoever in historical research," he said.

a reply to: Grenade

Yes, I'm very fond of facts. If you can't refute what I've written in my response, which I've sourced quite carefully from my library, then at least admit that I might have a point.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Plagiarism doesn't render information false, only copied or stolen.

It confirms the quote from Stalin for you.

One person who ridicules a book, doesn't make anything false.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

You might have a point, might being the operative word. Only one of us are talking in absolutes.

Your "facts" are sourced from the word of the Nazi high command and the Soviet army, two institutions renowned for their honesty. Downfall was not a documentary.

a reply to: Grenade
you night want to check out who you source your links from? i would cuase their both shaddy.

you do realize that the guy in your first link, harry copper the founder of sharkhunters international is a neo nazi. he is not a historian. at best he's a wanna be nazi hobbyist that cons his fellow neo nazi's wanna be's out of their hard earned cash taking trips to the fatherland. hell he hangs out with rense. he has no degrees as a historian and only started being interested in u boats and nazi when he had a midlife crisis in his forty's, bought a boat and he and three 20 something women sailed to the bahamas. he claims all kinds of awards and honors, some from the ussr, and others come from the very town that the wehrmacht and waffen SS hold their anual reunion ulrichsberg, austria. he also has medals and honors from salzburg, the town where göring was gonna hole up with all his loot. he also is reported to wear a ring with a swastika on it.
here is the video that doesn't play from your first link, i only post it because it has a caption that says he's the president and founder at the 1:25 mark.


three articles / reports. the first two even though their left leaning i'm using them because media bias rates them high in fact checking.

About Harry Cooper
Cooper claims that Sharkhunters is “nonpolitical,” but members of the group include former SS members, neo-Nazis and Holocaust deniers, and Cooper has long advertised for new members in neo-Nazi publications. Cooper also is a conspiracy theorist who believes that Hitler did not commit suicide at the end of World War II, but instead escaped to Argentina and lived out the rest of his life in hiding.

Harry Copper

His bio lists him as being a commissar of the Soviet Union for the Peace of the Oceans (whatever that is), an honorary submarine officer of the Russian Navy and recipient of the “Grand Ulrichsberg badge.” It is unclear what that badge is, but Ulrichsberg, Austria, is where an always-controversial annual reunion is held for veterans of the Wehrmacht and Waffen SS. According to one media report, Cooper took 20 of his Sharkhunters members there in 2011, and a couple of them had drinks with former SS members after the event. Cooper also claims to have been named an ambassador to Ulrichsberg (he has taken Sharkhunters tour groups to Ulrichsberg more than once). Once, he says, he received a medal from the mayor of Redipuglia, Italy, after visiting the battlefield “where young Erwin Rommel earned his Pour l’Merit [Prussia’s highest order of merit].”

Cooper also touts his “Man of the Year 2011” award, issued by the American Biographical Institute (ABI), for “accomplishments in your field.” But that achievement may be a little less grand than it seems. The Raleigh, N.C.-based ABI is a vanity publisher that invites individuals to pay a fee to be included in its “Who’s Who” books. Its “awards” have been widely denounced as scams.

Touring the Third Reich

something i found surprising in the last article, is four people he claims are/ were members, two i just couldn't believe, and two i could see it.
he claims that reagan, hugh downs, ross "for boss" perot, and ted tuner where members. they make a point to say that they were just members wanting to learn about u boats.

sharkhunters has a website, i'll not link it. it has all that i mentioned about him and three of the four members i mentioned, reagan is not on the list. click members, the click the name and their bio comes up. their listed as what joining member number they are and year joined like ross for boss is H. ROSS PEROT 130-1985.

then there's this site, most won't care much for the source, i can't find any reports on their bias or credibility, from what i articles i've read they focus on history and events that shaped it, past and present events that might effect future finding.

There are Shark Hunters abroad in Europe, but these are no big game fisherman. They are led by former stock car driver Harry Cooper who writes what he claims are ‘history smashing’ books about Adolf Hitler. He also claims to be a historian and operates a group – Sharkhunters International – researching what he asserts is ‘…honest submarine history with an emphasis on German U-boats’. But critics argue much of Mr Cooper’s published work betrays a bizarre disregard for accuracy and bears little resemblance to genuine scholarship. They also claim he’s a conspiracy theorist. THE BIG READ: ‘… A NEO-NAZI? ACTUALLY I’M A REPUBLICAN’ —————- HITLER, HARRY COOPER AND THE PSEUDOHISTORY INDUSTRY [PART ONE]

now for the grey wolf link, besides the fact that the williams one of the authors, and the producer magnus peterson were heavily invested in two film companies involved in the production of the phonymentry, through bad swap contracts that the comapany peterson was managing dirctor, where six million dollars came up missing and folded, peterson and williams started a new company Grey Wolf Media Ltd.

one can only wonder if the phonymentry was a front to launder cash.

which brings us to where williams got the tapes. ricardo d'aloia claims they got them form him and had a contract for their use. he wrote a letter to the publisher of both the book and the film that a statement made in the book and in the advertisement of the film that said.

"It is the words of these witnesses, on a tape given to us by the papers' editorial director Ricardo D'Aloia that have contributed to the findings in this book."

he replied,

"in order to clarify the fact that the statement is not at all true" and went on to say "I hope you will understand that I do not appreciate in any way having been named in your publication, and so involved in such a unpleasant episode with which I have absolutely no relation". ...

so in other words they lied about something, and to add insult to injury, Ricardo D'Aloia didn't get paid nor his research back.

then there the claim of plagiarism which has already been mentioned, but in a later post you seem to claim that that the plagiarism is copper not the grey wolf book or film. the claim actually comes from another author Abel Basti which is about willams, dunstan and peterson.

all of the last comes from the grey wolf wiki,
Controversies

one last thing, everything i've ever read about the book and film gives the impression that half or better of them, are things that took place leading up to the so called night of supposed hual assin.

thing is the claim they make about the pilot, luftwaffe captain peter baumgart claiming he flew hitler out,and had to land in magdeburg due to allied bombing on 28 April 1945. that flight couldn't have happened.the U.S. had capatured magdeburg and the airfield 10 days before on 18 April 1945.

originally posted by: Potlatch
It's understandable that the Soviet government initially dismissed the German government's announcement of Adolf Hitler's death as propaganda to bolster the image of Hitler as a heroic leader defending Germany from "Bolshevist Jewry", but eventually realized that Hitler killed himself after Soviet troops entered the Fuhrerbunker in Berlin. However, would it have been better if Soviet troops had found Hitler in the Fuhrerbunker and handcuffed him so that he could be flown to Vienna to put in an electric chair, asked by the Soviet occupation authorities in the Soviet sector of Vienna how he could just his evil deeds, and eventually electrocuted and his body thrown into the banks of the Danube River?

i' guessing American envisages Russians enacting an American style execution but who would that be for a modern American audience?

at that point Europe predominantly used hanging but also the guillotine and garrotte where also in use, the soviets liked ropes and bullets.

the Austrians themselves used hanging until they where annexed by Germany when hanging was replaced with the guillotine after the war the allies declared all Germany law changes null and void hanging was reintroduced.

even the Israelis used hanging as their method of execution so Hitler like Saddam would have been hung if he'd be found , but he wasn't so its all alternate reality stuff..

a reply to: BernnieJGato

I feel quite cross with myself, I should have researched the idiots making the claims that a desperately unfit Hitler could have escaped Berlin and made it out. Yup, Sharkhunters are led by a right wing nutcase.
Reading what he believes made me feel ill.

a reply to: BernnieJGato

I don't know what you're talking about.

The Harry Cooper video isn't related to the info about Stalin or the US Government investigation.

I posted an article to a newspaper story from a publication in the UK then backed it up with an article in the Guardian ( a left wing rag in the UK )

My source for saying Hitler was still alive was Joseph Stalin, he said it not me. The FBI launched an investigation at least suggesting the claims are possible.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

The FBI are right wing nutcases?

Joseph Stalin was Right Wing?

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Here's a document from the CIA website that might be of interest.

CIA Website

Article from 1979 archived by the CIA

I'm sorry you snowflakes can't accept the idea of anything other than the official narrative as being true.

Personally, with the forensic evidence appearing to be falsified and no direct evidence of his death, i'll keep an open mind.

You criticize my sources but then use the Nazi high command to build your own opinions.

Literally using Nazi's as a source while calling another persons sources right wing is hypocrisy personified. Your source Helmuth Weidling was a Nazi General FFS.

a reply to: Grenade

I don't know what you're talking about. The Harry Cooper video isn't related to the info about Stalin or the US Government investigation.

Copper wrote the book it is attributed to.

Adolf Hitler and hundreds of Nazi's escaped to South America at the end of WWII. Based on the best-selling book by renowned WWII expert, Harry Cooper, and featuring Germany's "Wonder Weapons", Flying Disks, Black U-Boats and the shocking history regarding the German base in Antarctica.
Adolf Hitler's Great Escape

man you just don't check your sources. it's right there in your link link above the picture of truman.

However, three months later US president Harry Truman raised his concerns, it was revealed in Amazon Prime’s 2015 “Adolf Hitler: Great Escape” documentary

stalin might have had doubts to the point of not believing he was dead, but he just like everybody else, didn't have any verifiable proof. just because a notorious lying neo nazi con man says stalin said it was matter of fact doesn't make it so. in fact it should be disregarded knowing who it came from quoting stalin.

a reply to: Grenade
I'm sorry, I don't have a crystal ball, or a Tardis to allow me to go back in time and see these events. You have to use historical documents and eyewitness accounts. Who was around Hitler again during his last days in Berlin? What's that you say? Nazis? My god! Let's throw away all the history books containing details of what people like Weidling saw, they were Nazis!!!
*Sigh*
Yes, I know that he was a member of the German Army. Not in the SS though and I don't know that he was member of the Nazi Party. He was in charge of the Berlin Defence Force. He visited the Bunker. He knew the people in it.
Stalin was told about Hitler's death by people like *checks notes* General Hans Krebs (German).
Stalin, in addition to being a mass-murderer, was also a very paranoid man who had quite a few idee fixes. What he told Truman cannot be taken seriously, as the man liked to play people against each other. Who knows what he was thinking in this case.
My point remains: Hitler was in no physical condition to escape from Berlin. We have multiple accounts of his death, he had told a lot of people that he was planning to kill himself and indeed German radio announced that the wretched little man was dead - on the night of 1 May, the Reichssender Hamburg radio station interrupted their normal program to announce that Hitler had died that afternoon and said that Karl Dönitz had succeeded him.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Well he's not exactly going to announce his escape plans or provide a forwarding address.

Again, only one of us are speaking in absolutes.

You're right, you don't have a crystal ball and didn't see the events so you can't rule out the possibility, yet that's exactly what you're doing.

a reply to: BernnieJGato

Again, i suggest you attempt to re-read what i wrote.

Stalin and the FBI have nothing to do with that book.

I quoted the book as Angry stated he had books on the subject, i was merely showing books can say anything, doesn't mean they're factually accurate. Only like every left wing nutter with a bee in his bonnet, you've ignored the context, and cherry picked arguments to fit your confirmation bias.

The ONLY sources we have on the demise of Hitler are those closest to him, those who fought for him and his ideology. Believe what you want, but it's you trusting the word of a Nazi, not me. I'm merely open to the possibility that they would lie in order to save their Fuhrer and sabotage any attempt to find him.

"Where's Hitler?"

"Oh, he committed suicide and we destroyed all forensic evidence."

"Case closed!"

Hitler could have escaped, it's not beyond the realms of possibility, unless you're a self righteous know it all.

a reply to: Grenade

Stalin and the FBI have nothing to do with that book. I quoted the book as Angry stated he had books on the subject, i was merely showing books can say anything, doesn't mean they're factually accurate. Only like every left wing nutter with a bee in his bonnet, you've ignored the context, and cherry picked arguments to fit your confirmation bias.

what? your the one making the claim he lived, from your very first post in this thread, and continue to post links to try and support it. AngryCymraeg has said from his first hitler didn't survive.

your words,

I honestly believe he took a U-Boat to South America, long before Berlin fell.

show me where any fbi, cia,kgb,mi5 or any other any other intelligence sources that says stalin said for a matter of fact he knew hilter was still alive and that they have the proof with documents that prove he was. not just reports, speculation and rumors.

fact is you can't, all that you post is junk phonymenetry's, books, copies of intelligence reports that said so and so said this or that doesn't prove anything.
no believable cold hard facts that prove that stalin and other world leaders knew for a fact that hitler lived which you can't do.

and you talk about confirmation bias.