US and UK ploughing billions into UAVs.

Just found this article today, it states that both the UK and US are putting a lot of cash into making invisible drones, not only to radar but also to the naked eye and IR. The theory is that we will need smaller forces if we know virtually all there is to know about the enemy I am not really so sure of the idea it seems as though the UK in particular are just looking for ways to spend less on the forces and this a way to do it.

news.bbc.co.uk...

[edit on 12-4-2005 by Seekerof]

Man talk about overkill we already have a huge advantage over other nations and having invisible UAV's will be something. I think they would be very useful in a lot of missions. Cant shoot what you cant see.

I predict massive spending in Russia and China on Full spectrum jamming tech and ASAT's... that's what I would do if I were them anyway. UAV's are useless if they can't talk to base, because noone in their right mind would allow a computer program autonomy to fire without oversight.

Originally posted by Sugarlump
I predict massive spending in Russia and China on Full spectrum jamming tech and ASAT's... that's what I would do if I were them anyway. UAV's are useless if they can't talk to base, because noone in their right mind would allow a computer program autonomy to fire without oversight.

Tomahawk can hit targets without "talking to the base" and it looks like nobody has problem allowing it.
Plus jamming devices are easy to detect and destroy, especially such powerfull ones that you describe.

To the main topic - that IR and optical invisibilty will be especially usefull to the helicopters(UCARs) - most of them take damage from infantry weapons.

Not only are the drones(UAVs) cheaper to procure, they are also much cheaper to maintain. look at the new X-45 for example. It can be stored in transportable containers for 5-10 years WITHOUT maintainig. The JSF, for example, needs flight hours to train pilots, it cannot be simply stored, so the operating costs are much higher. I think it near future drones will take over almost all strike missions except CAS.


[edit on 9-4-2005 by longbow]

bit like iaq version 2 hit them as hard with ebombs and you win, if nothing works anymore!

ok but russia could have somethign better that we don't know about?

I predict massive spending in Russia and China on Full spectrum jamming tech and ASAT's... that's what I would do if I were them anyway. UAV's are useless if they can't talk to base, because noone in their right mind would allow a computer program autonomy to fire without oversight.

Actually the X-45 is designed so that you program everything in the computer when to drop the bombs, what to hit and what route to take and so on. It will not send any info back to base, all a pilot on the ground has to do is press a button. However if need be, a pilot on the ground can override the computer system on board.

ok but russia could have somethign better that we don't know about?

So do we, two words “Black Projects”. Do not expect to hear these baby’s discussed on a C-Span committee hearing

Originally posted by longbow

Tomahawk can hit targets without "talking to the base" and it looks like nobody has problem allowing it.

Tomahawks dont choose the target, the target is preprogrammed into them. What the other blokes talking about is really teh autonomy to make DECISIONS beyond 'shall i carry out my programmed task or not?'.

I'm surprised noone has said that the US/UK has stolen these ideas/technology from Russia, China, or Mighty India yet haha. Considering they are all so much farther along in technology. (sarcasm)

Originally posted by RichardPrice
Tomahawks dont choose the target, the target is preprogrammed into them. What the other blokes talking about is really teh autonomy to make DECISIONS beyond 'shall i carry out my programmed task or not?'.

The targets could be programed into the UCAV during flight. It is impossible to jamm too big area, so there will always be possibilty to recieve new info. I don't think they will have too big autonomy to make critical decisions, that's the reason why they willl be probably not used for CAS or similar tasks where AI mistakes could be critical. I think UCAVs like X-45 will mostly attack known fixed targets like bridges or bunkers (difficult targets for Tomahawks or where is the Tomahawk too costly). Maybe they will be also able to alone recognize military vehicles/other targets like radars in certain area (and attack them) but I think for other missions the human operator will decide if attack, or manned fighters will be used.

Yeah, the X-45 is probably going to be used for destroying big structures like bunkers, tunnels or bridges. These things don't change location quickly so once you program the X-45 no need to intervene unless you want to stop the mission.

After reading the article I was immediately shocked at the amount of money that the U.S. is targeting for these projects. I can only imagine that the total we and our allies are going to spend is double or tripple that amount.

However, I am wondering how you can spend $13 Billion on a bunch of RC Planes. Maybe this budget includes large scale integration into the manned aerial vehicles as well.

After a quick hunt on military web sites I found this link that talks about the actual U.S. budget for UAV's: aimpoints.hq.af.mil...

$3 Billion a year is what the article suggest. What a bargain!

Famous Wayne

Well we Americans like to “over spend” as people put it. But I’m sure all of that money is going to good use.

Originally posted by RichardPrice
Tomahawks dont choose the target, the target is preprogrammed into them. What the other blokes talking about is really teh autonomy to make DECISIONS beyond 'shall i carry out my programmed task or not?'.

Since we publicly know of work underway on smart missiles that choose their own target and attack method it's more than likely that in secrecy US and other nations already have these on arsenal. So the decision making ordanance is probably already killing people.

I just like the fact that UAV's are replacing manned fighter jets more and more, which greatly reduces the risk to American pilots' lives. To me there is no price tag for a life, especially an American one! LOL So 13 billion is money well spent as far as I'm concerned.

Now all we need is more remote-controlled tanks and other vehicles, some robot soldiers, and we'll be set! We can fight wars from the comfort of our living rooms and let the suckers over seas lose their lives in defense of a lost cause!

U are a real humanitarian Rasputin

IMO a UAV taking on a manned airplane like a Mig-29 is something like 20 years off.

UAV's are only useful in surveying and recon behind enemy lines, as of now.

IMO israel and india spend a lot of money on UAV's and there have been several colaborative projects too.

India opertes several secret UAV squadrons that frequently trespass into pakistani air space, and sometimes get shot.

here's details of one : UAV shot down

here's the Lakshya >> recon UAV cum cruise missile



Nishant UAV >>




another :


eye view :
Ground control station :



Israeli UAV's






the reamining long list of Israeli UAV's list


but israel keeps selling some of them to china and frequntly angers the pentagon

Israel-China UAV Deal Provokes Pentagon




[edit on 10-4-2005 by Stealth Spy]

a complete list of world UAV's >> www.aeronautics.ru...

Russia's Homegrown Reconnaisance UAV

The new modification of the Stroy-PD air reconnaissance system, fitted with the Pchela-1K UAV [unmanned aerial vehicle], is about to complete state tests. "The Defence Ministry is expected to return a preliminary conclusion on the feasibility of fielding the new air reconnaissance system in the first quarter of 2005," a source in the Russian defence industry told Interfax-Military News Agency. He noted that the preliminary conclusion of the customer was necessary to launch the new system into mass production and field it with manoeuvre units later on. According to the source, the main feature of the upgraded Pchela-1K UAV consists in the new avionics, comprising both infrared and TV equipment, as well as special devices, allowing the system to operate both by day and night. The source also said that the Kulon Research and Development Institute was the flagship developer of the Stroy-PD, while the Pchela-1K UAV had been developed by the Yakovlev design bureau. According to unofficial sources, the 2005 state defence order envisages procuring a single air reconnaissance system, fitted with the Pchela-1K UAV.

Russia buys and deploys UAV from Israel

Originally posted by lepracornman
ok but russia could have somethign better that we don't know about?

Ya mean like anti-matter bombs? Oops! Thats the US, nevermind

However, I am wondering how you can spend $13 Billion on a bunch of RC Planes. Maybe this budget includes large scale integration into the manned aerial vehicles as well.

This budget includes the R&D for brand new stealth systems. That costs money.

I mean, they are making things freaking invisable! Of course it's going to cost billions. Besides, that is a drop in the bucket for the US military - the anual budget is over 400 Billion.