Angelology - what role do angels play in our lives in this world? Travellers?

Hi ATS,

As many of you will be aware, I'm a committed Christian (20 years in the faith), and I like to think that despite being 100% in agreement with the general tenets of the faith (the Nicene Creed as the basis thereof), I have a very open mind, and I'm willing to consider the inclusion of elements of belief which are somewhat atypical in the Christian world (such as reincarnation under certain circumstances, the reality of certain physical & psychic powers arising from discipline of the human mind &/or the anointing of God, and so on).

One of the core elements of those unusual tenets of belief, is my assured confidence in the presence of living 'flesh & blood' angels in the world around us, essentially living in deep cover, as members of human society, yet also being members of a hidden society which acts in the interests of the preservation of those who fall under the remit of God's protection, encouragement, teaching & support, and I believe that certain human organisations & societies are aware of these beings, possibly they even cooperate under certain circumstances. I'm thinking primarily in terms of military, intelligence & law enforcement/justice system as the primary nexus points where the two tribes - human & angel - intersect in this world.

Of course in the scripture we possess there are three sides to the nature of the angels that we are told of - some appear like men/women, some appear like men/women with supernatural gifts, and some appear as 'flames of fire' - non-corporeal entities. All of them minister to the human sons & daughters of God who will inherit salvation.

There is a rather excellent sci-fi show on Netflix named 'Travelers', which was made in Canada, three seasons since the 2018 premiere. The show really prompted me to contemplate how angelic society might operate in deep cover in the human world, and I suspect that some of the original motivation for the show might have been that very question/ contemplation: 'How do angels interact with human society..?' Teams of 'travellers' project their consciousness back through time from a far-off distant future in which the world has been destroyed by nuclear war, where only a few humans remain in dire conditions. They are sent back through time to take the place, ethically, of humans who would have died at a certain time & place. Knowing the location, time & reason for their deaths, the travellers can inhabit the bodies/ lives of those humans, they continue in their lives as if nothing has happened, yet they are constantly running secret operations in service of the 'Director' (a godike AI system) who controls the objectives. There are supposedly thousands of traveller teams throughout the world, all working to attempt to rewrite the future, to prevent the mass destruction which is otherwise inevitable.

It's a great TV show, I've watched it a couple of times all the way through - each time I have come back to this idea, that angels may indeed live among us in deep cover here on Earth, in addition to those who are being despatched to the Earth from Heaven, in service of some urgent need as & when the occasion requires it.

What are your thoughts? I'm interested to hear all perspectives on the matter, naturally I'd prefer interesting perspectives rather than just a statement that angels don't exist, etc. But hey, all are welcome, feel free to share your opinion whatever it may be. I'm especially interested in the fact that eschatology has a significant role afforded to the angels, that they will bring in the harvest of souls at the end of time, all who have been redeemed who are living on the Earth during the time of trouble, around the time of the tribulation & so forth.

Thanks!


FITO.

Depends on what kind of angel as for what help we get. If there are some out there, its the ones you never expect that somehow keep things ticking along.

Expecting an angle has your back sounds like a highway to hell.

a reply to: kwakakev

Depends what religion your angels are from.

I took a lot of various theology classes in college many a moon ago, but I remember Islam actually assigns angels to you. Each person has, I forget the number, two or three angels or djinn that are invisible and follow them around and constantly write everything down. Those writings would be used when it's judgement day.

It's been a long time, I think my memory of this class may be correct. Hope so.

The official Christian view of everything is always stupidly narrow and extremely partial. The way the church understands the whole field of what they call "angels and demons", is probably no more than 20 or 30% of the actual truth around the matter. If you are, in fact, a Christian of Nicene Creed, you shouldn't even be questioning these things, and leave it to the "specialists". In your Christian view, the more you know about the world, the worse your case will be on judgement day. Simply embrace Jesus as you are told and, therefore, embrace your ignorance.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

To be honest, having done some Enochian work, the Angels to me, just seem like programmes. God's computer programmes.
They all have set functions and just only fulfill those, over and over again.
That is why you can have hundreds or thousands of angels and lesser angels, and some Archangels.

The Archangels are the servers and domains.
The lesser angels are the websites and bots.

So in a nutshell, they enforce the rules we live by in this particular unique Universe.

a reply to: Mahogany

One thing I didn't mention is that I do believe in the concept of a Holy Guardian Angel that is both you in different times and past lives but also a guiding Larger Principle in your particular current incarnation. In other words you are a tiny part of it and your other lives make up It.

originally posted by: ltrz2025
The official Christian view of everything is always stupidly narrow and extremely partial. The way the church understands the whole field of what they call "angels and demons", is probably no more than 20 or 30% of the actual truth around the matter. If you are, in fact, a Christian of Nicene Creed, you shouldn't even be questioning these things, and leave it to the "specialists". In your Christian view, the more you know about the world, the worse your case will be on judgement day. Simply embrace Jesus as you are told and, therefore, embrace your ignorance.

What an amazingly narrow and stupid view of Christianity
God asked humanity to know and understand Him, to delve deep into creation
How does one do that without questioning

Angels are Gods messengers, thought that was all

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: ltrz2025
The official Christian view of everything is always stupidly narrow and extremely partial. The way the church understands the whole field of what they call "angels and demons", is probably no more than 20 or 30% of the actual truth around the matter. If you are, in fact, a Christian of Nicene Creed, you shouldn't even be questioning these things, and leave it to the "specialists". In your Christian view, the more you know about the world, the worse your case will be on judgement day. Simply embrace Jesus as you are told and, therefore, embrace your ignorance.

What an amazingly narrow and stupid view of Christianity
God asked humanity to know and understand Him, to delve deep into creation
How does one do that without questioning

Angels are Gods messengers, thought that was all

You clearly know VERY LITTLE about Christianity. Let me educate you:

Romans 2:12
"All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law."

According to Paul, the Christian god (Jesus) will judge humans depending on what they know. The more they know, the more they will need to answer for on judgement day. This is known by any real Christian in this planet.

This is why I laugh at all these "Christians" in these type of websites and forums (like ATS) discussing, questioning, or having their own interpretation of the bible. They are covert apostates who, in truth, have lost their faith in the bible, and that's why they have "questions". A true believer doesn't question, just has blind faith and avoids all questions.

Even more, regarding the Christians going around these websites, if what they believe is true, then they are literally buying their own ticket to "hell". Real god-fearing Christians even refuse to read the bible, or be told what the bible says, because they know that the less they know, "the better"... they just believe in Jesus, and that's it.

I hope you've been educated.

a reply to: ltrz2025

Or....

"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you shall be judged"...


Fairly good start....

Mathew 7:1-3......

Mg

originally posted by: ltrz2025

Romans 2:12
"All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law."

According to Paul, the Christian god (Jesus) will judge humans depending on what they know. The more they know, the more they will need to answer for on judgement day. This is known by any real Christian in this planet.


I hope you've been educated.

Thanks for that but, oh never mind
The idea you take one scripture and base your whole theology on that

i am not under the law and I am not apart from the law, that is what makes me a Christian
Your comprehension of Christianity is fundamentally flawed
You have no idea what Christians believe, just some ignorant belief in your own comprehension being correct, unfortunately it’s not

originally posted by: missed_gear
a reply to: ltrz2025

Or....

"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you shall be judged"...

Mathew 7:1-3......

Indeed, this is another HUGE sin that "Christians" commit practically on a daily basis. Jesus orders them to not judge, but most of the people you find on religious posts in internet forums are christian judging others. What a bunch of apostates, so much hypocrisy between what they claim believe and what they do.

Great response, thanks. I'm on my phone so can't really type out a full reply to all the various comments yet, but I agree with you that the member to whom you replied has a very warped perspective on the faith which i know to be full of wonders, depth, grace, a mystery that we are invited to explore. A true response to the Christian faith is to 'gird your loins' and dive head first into the greatest adventure imaginable!

I look forward to speaking further with you on the matter, if you want to stick around a while..

Cheers,


FITO






a reply to: Raggedyman

a reply to: kwakakev

"Expecting an angel has your back sounds like a highway to Hell?"

Pure nonsense. We are told to expect that we may be entertaining angels at any moment during our lives in which we are interacting with strangers. We are told to show hospitality to all, to be humble, to be gracious to others, especially strangers & those in need, precisely because in doing so, we may be participating in the work of angels in this realm. They may even sit at our table for fellowship meals, and we cannot know, therefore it is simply an article of our faith to EXPECT that angels are hanging around, working in & around our lives, as God directs us on the pathway He has led us onto. It is a directive which inspires a mindset of hospitality, humility & love for others, keeping us mindful that God is constantly working, constantly aiding us as we progress along the Way.

a reply to: ltrz2025

Your attitude is disgraceful, and your supposed 'knowledge' by which you intend to 'educate' us is worthless. You are not a Christian, yet you suppose that your knowledge of the faith is greater than that of one who has walked the path in close communion with the Lord for over twenty years. How dare you come into this thread & start throwing around the 'apostate' label, as though you have any authority to judge any one of us. You do realise that by the standard you judge others, you yourself will be judged? If you persist with your frankly disgusting, patronising, arrogant & foolhardy attitude towards others, particularly in terms of sticking your nose in & attacking a person's most deeply cherished beliefs, you yourself are in for a rude awakening at some point in your years to come, and certainly on judgement day if you don't sort it out.

The Christian faith is not a checklist of rules to follow, and knowledge plus wisdom is highly prized, highly valued by the Lord, and we are told indeed to ask Him for wisdom if we lack it in any area of interest or concern. The Holy Spirit was sent to us so that we would be able to grow in wisdom & knowledge, grow in the knowledge of the Truth - indeed it says in Scripture that He "...leads us into all truth" - IE, there is more truth to be discovered, it has NOT been fuly revealed; in the latter days new information & insights will be delivered to individuals & the church more broadly, because it is necessary & a part of the Lord's plan for this generation. Consider the sealed scroll of Daniel's final prophecy; consider the Seven Thunders of Revelation, the words of whom were sealed until the End of Days, to be revealed in some form of prophecy at some unknown future time prefacing the Apocalypse, through an authoritative prophet, we presume..

We are instructed to develop a relationship with the Lord through the Spirit, and in so doing we are cultivating a back & forth exchange with the Almighty God, in which He constantly feeds us with new information, new directives, new lessons & new perspectives. We are told to remain humble at all times, and to be thankful in all circumstances. We are well within our God-given rights to pray for increased knowledge, understanding, wisdom & so forth. We are instructed to 'earnestly desire the gift of prophecy', which is issued precisely so that the church & its members can be edified, strengthened, encouraged & fortified by the provision of knowledge, insight, wisdom & so forth, from the heart of God to the hearts of His children, the members of the churches which are true to Jesus Christ, the redeemer, the saviour, the Lord.

Your writing suggests that you yourself are somewhat bitter towards the church, and you are deliberately poisoning the discussion to discourage Christians who are new in the faith, or perhaps those who are struggling with a crisis of faith. Your toxic comments are designed to infiltrate the mind of some Christian who struggles with their understanding of certain tenets of the faith - you worm your way in & sow doubt, division, confusion & deception. You may not think it, but you are behaving in the manner of a true Antichrist, and I believe you should accept this statement as an authoritative rebuke, if in some way you actually consider yourself a Christian. Divisive, noxious comments which you claim to be 100% accurate, which plant doubt in the mind of a believer who may be young in years or of years in the faith, are abhorrent, and God despises those who work deception into the minds of His children on purpose, trying to confuse, frighten or in any way deliberately misinform them.

You should examine your conscience before you respond.

You throw the word 'apostate' around, as if you have the authority to make claims that certain people are such, simply for inquiring into the mysteries of the faith - you should know that the only one who is acting like an apostate in this thread is your own self.

I think I've wasted enough time on you now, so let's leave it there. If you wish to carry on with your deceptive & disgraceful behaviour in this thread, then I will dismantle your arguments using the scriptures & prove that you are an Antichrist & a deceiver, deliberately trying to unsettle the minds of those who inquire after the mysteries of the faith, as God has clearly instructed us to do, in the pursuit of our faith. Take it or leave it - I will finish the argument decisively if you intend to persist.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Yawn, I really couldn't care less regarding your judgments, about me or about anything. So, yap yap yap, personal attack, personal attack, no argument, yap yap yap. If this makes you "happy"... keep going you bad boy, internet warrior, haha.

Then, regarding what you wrote, "Christian" apostates looking for excuses and short cuts to justify their hypocrisy and misbehavior in respect to their Lord's laws are always boring and cringe to watch. If you are going to claim a faith over others, at least practice what you preach. The show is always much more entertaining when it's a bit more believable.