Russian Fighter Jet Collides with US Drone

a reply to: putnam6

Yeah, nor hard feelings. We seem to agree that they just haven't released footage from the UFO balloon.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: The GUT
I'm curious, do you know the Cold War came about mostly by misdiagnosis and unparalleled paranoia?

Totally. The Soviet Union were our pals too. It's good to have friends

When I was last in Germany I found myself at a bar/bistro run by a great Turkish guy. Loved that man.

While buying each other drinks and waiting for my food order some Russians came into the bar.

We all started drinking and laughing.

One of my new drinking buddies leaned in at one point and said, "I was told to kill you."

I drank and asked if his orders had changed.

He said, "For now."

We all laughed and drank some more.



I sure do miss Europe.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: The GUT
I'm curious, do you know the Cold War came about mostly by misdiagnosis and unparalleled paranoia?

Totally. The Soviet Union were our pals too. It's good to have friends

Do you have an address for the USSR? Do you have any learned comment on our spectacular world success at regime change and other assorted wickedness? Or is all that okay with you so therefore irrelevant somehow? Hard to take you serious intellectually so I can't.

a reply to: DBCowboy

It cost me $6.85 to have him forgo those orders so I'm asking you, if you DO go back to Germany kindly repay me prior to your one way trip.

a reply to: The GUT

China bad indeed. I loathe them for such but given the parameters I don't think so. USSR is up there, but there is no USSR so...Stalin, for one, is up there I admit. but again...

China did it to their own, though, we could debate whether most of it was intentional.

And Russia still holds all the treaties and the seat at the permanent seat on the defense council of the UN. So it’s safe to say they’re the former USSR. They can’t just distance themselves when it’s convenient while claiming inheritance to the remains.

They didn’t just war with other nations, they took them.

And yes, we have had historical blights, many are recent. But I struggle to see how we’re the worst in recent history in terms of oppression of the planet.

We’ve had some horrible wars, but notice a vast majority of people we have been in conflict with in our nations history are now our allies. We also used our navy to ensure safe trade for the entire globe. How many nations have industrialized and traded their way to being developed or close to because of those trade routes?

We shouldn’t ignore our bad moments, but I don’t see us being the worse in your question, I think the USSR/Russia take that cake. Hence why maybe two or three former satellite countries have good relations with them.

originally posted by: The GUT
Do you have an address for the USSR?

Yes. I believe they are currently located at #1 Ronald Reagan Kicked Your Ass Street.

Do you have any learned comment on our spectacular world success at regime change and other assorted wickedness? Or is all that okay with you so therefore irrelevant somehow?

You live in the US, brohan? If 'yes', why? How come you haven't relocated to a venue more suitable to your obviously offended sensibilities in regards the United States and its history?

Hard to take you serious intellectually so I can't.

And I don't take rabid America-haters seriously, especially when its vis a vis the USSR/Russia and China.

a reply to: IAMTAT

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: DBCowboy

It cost me $6.85 to have him forgo those orders so I'm asking you, if you DO go back to Germany kindly repay me prior to your one way trip.

I bank with SVB, it might be a while.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

And I don't take rabid America-haters seriously, especially when its vis a vis the USSR/Russia and China.

King Strawman lol. Oh, I love my country. And I served. I see it a little differently these days. But my oath was to the constitution that one-line fruitcakes don't seem to know much about and, hell no, I'm not willing to just be okay with the kind of destruction and hypocrisy that continues to perpetuate while claiming to be some kind of beacon (still.) Makes me barf. However I understand why it doesn't bother some, but it doesn't say much for them---hypocrisy on steroids.

originally posted by: The GUT
Oh, I love my country.

Sorry, no one believes you. Especially when you start comparing the United States to the Soviet Union and China.

Nice try though, but you had no one fooled.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: The GUT
I'm curious, do you know the Cold War came about mostly by misdiagnosis and unparalleled paranoia?

Totally. The Soviet Union were our pals too. It's good to have friends

When I was last in Germany I found myself at a bar/bistro run by a great Turkish guy. Loved that man.

While buying each other drinks and waiting for my food order some Russians came into the bar.

We all started drinking and laughing.

One of my new drinking buddies leaned in at one point and said, "I was told to kill you."

I drank and asked if his orders had changed.

He said, "For now."

So, wait...did he ever come back and kill you?

originally posted by: IAMTAT

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: The GUT
I'm curious, do you know the Cold War came about mostly by misdiagnosis and unparalleled paranoia?

Totally. The Soviet Union were our pals too. It's good to have friends

When I was last in Germany I found myself at a bar/bistro run by a great Turkish guy. Loved that man.

While buying each other drinks and waiting for my food order some Russians came into the bar.

We all started drinking and laughing.

One of my new drinking buddies leaned in at one point and said, "I was told to kill you."

I drank and asked if his orders had changed.

He said, "For now."

So, wait...did he ever come back and kill you?

He did.

But I got better.

On a serious note, it was fun to drink with an enemy.

It's like having cocktails with Pelosi.

Bueller can't answer so I'll throw this out there for anyone: Does anyone actually think our involvement in Ukraine is about protecting the peoples? Or even our "national security." If you lean towards "national security" can you make a case for it in existential terms?

If you do think it's about the people, that's okay, but I have to ask my own self as well as you, as to why we're so selective with our "concern?"

Having said that, I appreciate Critical Stinker's thoughtful response and agree with a lot of it. But I would further ask if you think the path we're on is noble? Or even wise and in good hands? Because, imo, our national security complex is full of dishonest idiots.

originally posted by: The GUT
Does anyone actually think our involvement in Ukraine is about protecting the peoples?

You should try asking this to the people who could answer you the best, Ukrainians. You could swing by there on your way to one of those countries that is less worse than the United States.

a reply to: The GUT
Thanks for your service.
Interesting reply from those who haven’t.

Our involvement in the Ukrain has been crap for over a decade.
Our involvement most places in the last 50 years has been crap.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker

We shouldn’t ignore our bad moments, but I don’t see us being the worse in your question, I think the USSR/Russia take that cake. Hence why maybe two or three former satellite countries have good relations with them.

But we do seem to be ignoring our bad moments. The rest of the world knows what we've--apparently--become.

And I don't think "bad moments" is an apt description. We saw a paradigm shift after WWII and it's not isolated instances for the most part but long-range "national security" strategies based on flawed and outdated geopolitical philosophies .

History is important and if one truly wants to understand the problem start with the Dulles Brothers and follow the direct line to the present. The documentation is abundant but you have to go look for it these days.

The documentation of atrocities (by intent or just propping up "friendly" dictators) is abundant and consistent as well. I think you have some grasp of the topic and the non-ceasing ever-increasing destruction that follows but maybe you haven't done some straight-line research. The Shah, training torturers in SA and elsewhere, Phoenix Program, Iraq (weapons of mass destruction!!!,) Afghanistan etc ad infinitum et al.

There's SO much. As for some of that, If our national security depends on oil we should drill some and suck it up. Thinking it's isolated bad moments instead of actual policy is understandable but fades quickly when seriously engaged.

Until one seriously digs in, it can seem like "bad moments" and not the moral left-turn it was. I'm all for helping folk who need it if it's not for hypocritical geo-political posturing and consistent.

Otherwise it's a continuous cycle with a bad ending for everyone pretty much. Those "good things" you mention, that's the America I love. Not what our "leaders" have made it.

I don't recognize the IC deep state as America. Many Americans are decent folk who care. The maniacal strategists running things are another matter. Are you familiar with the various think-tank white papers about "managing America's decline?" Along with a deeper dive on foreign policy post WWII as alluded to above it pretty much finishes the picture.

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow

originally posted by: Cutepants
a reply to: putnam6

Drones usually have cameras on them

Actually no , Most people think Drones have Cameras and are guided via Satellites but in fact Drones are piloted by a 'Super Intelligent ' Race of Raccoons that have been trained to fly drones .

The Raccoons are considered expendable and are immediaty incinerated upon the destruction of the Drone to destroy all proof of there existence.

Truth... I always had the feeling our furry friends were more than just cute. It's such a shame they have to be incinerated, after all, they're only flying raccoonnaissance missions.

originally posted by: LSU2018

originally posted by: IAMTAT
Breaking...

A Russian fighter has collided with a US Reaper drone, forcing it down into the Black Sea, in what US forces called an “unsafe and unprofessional” intercept.

A US European Command statement said the collision happened just after 7am on Tuesday morning, when two Russian Su-27 fighter jets flew up to the MQ-9 Reaper drone over international waters west of Crimea. The statement said the Russian pilots sought to disrupt the US aircraft before the collision.

www.theguardian.com...

Looks like Russia tried to assault the US drone west of Crimea....causing it to crash into international waters.
Scratch one $32M US drone.

Developing story...but, likely, a sign of more things to come.

Biden won't do anything. Putin knows it.

THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS IT TOO

a reply to: The GUT

But we do seem to be ignoring our bad moments. The rest of the world knows what we've--apparently--become.

I disagree. Anyone I talk to is more than willing to say Vietnam was the biggest blight and Iraq was a horrible mistake.

Vietnam was an incredible fumble because we initiated the draft when we were offensive.

Iraq was false pretenses, and I believe it was a horrible moral position because of our dominance against a nation we manufactured motive against.

But we have to remember a lot of our Cold War foreign policy was aimed at countering communist aggression. We weren’t saints in the lead up to that, but they proved to be gobbling up other countries against their will. And whether or not they intended for so many to die to starvation is moot, the battlefield losses alone were enough to poke at raw wounds from WWII and the fear of expansion.

Luckily the war was mostly cold depending on who you ask. And through our sphere of influence we ushered in one of the longest periods of largely global peace. This came at the expense of some mistakes. But again, those ocean lanes helped bring a lot of the world out of a depression, and that same trade opened up diplomatic ties. Now it’s viewed as globalism and naughty, which to an extent I can understand as we’re at a phase where it can be damaging to aspects of economies who it originally benefited.

The documentation of atrocities (by intent or just propping up "friendly" dictators) is abundant and consistent as well. I think you have some grasp of the topic and the non-ceasing ever-increasing destruction that follows but maybe you haven't done some straight-line research. The Shah, training torturers in SA and elsewhere, Phoenix Program, Iraq (weapons of mass destruction!!!,) Afghanistan etc ad infinitum et al.

This is where I’d agree we have a huge failure in foreign policy post WWII. Where we can’t win with “hearts and minds” we support dictatorships.

I’ve looked up active dictatorships over time, and sadly half or more can fall under the western sphere of influence. And yes, it’s often to align with energy security.


That’s somewhere we as a society get lost. I agree a lot of our energy dependence could be independence: but politically we get hung up on bad points. The left pushes back on domestic fossil fuels, and the right pushes back on a flourishing EV. Reality is free market needs to play out, and ideally there would be a healthy blend. Long haul trucks have to be diesel until a long range fuel cell (hydrogen or natural gas) comes to be. But commuting could shift a lot to EV, though it’s all for nothing unless we unlock the lithium question as that brings as much foreign resource dependence and environmental woes as the alternative.

The simple fact we can all openly discuss this at such level of criticism is still a testament to our advantage as an influence on the world. I agree American exeptionalism is often damaging as it can lead us to blunder. But the same fault is an advantage since it comes from a place of idealism, and one that champions freedom even if it doesn’t meet our own standards. Because there’s no denying it exceeds that of any of the recent alternatives.