Europe collapsing but you would never know.

America will be hit with the energy crisis that the democrats has created under the banner of clima change, is all pre planned and things will collapse, warning has been issue, wait when the energy restrictions start, just like in Europe.

Nobody wants to talk about, and nobody wants to listen, as soon somebody say something is called "political" a "fantasy" and "Tirade", I guess just like the fake news we have right now, that the sole purpose is to create obfuscation.

a reply to: Maxmars

ATS like many other sites are under attack by an army of digital soldiers either real humans or algorithms, their job is to discredit any argument that conflicts with their agenda. That is wipe it out with an ad hominem argument or any other pettiness they can think of. It will work with the noncritical thinker who just cruises headlines without question. Most of the public is kept unaware of the rising tide of dissent spreading throughout the world. Their flaw is that as soon as they move on an argument it indicates what they do not want to be discussed. It can also be analyzed.
Why do they not like the growing unrest to be publicized, simply because people will ask what are the reasons for the unrest because it takes a lot to get most people off the couch and become active. If the couch sitter finds out and agrees that the reasons are worth getting off the couch for. the unrest will keep growing.

a reply to: anonentity

The bots are running wild, they are everywhere and is easy to spot them, I had a few that have targeted me personally when I post but I do not let it bother me, they come and go. Things in Europe are not peachy, and they are not perfect, people are been hit with all kind of globalist experiment and they are getting fed up.

a reply to: anonentity

Most of the public is kept unaware of the rising tide of dissent spreading throughout the world.

I have been following it since February 24, 2022. Getting information on the internet is no easy task-all sites want to paint Russia as the only villain, yet hide the massive protests of farmers, truckers, citizens facing homelessness and hunger like it isn't happening.
Without the 'alternate news' sites (that governments want to shut down) we'd never know how badly the domino effect -at the hands of Biden- is plunging the entire world into poverty...or should say transferring all wealth to those few at the top of the food chain.

I understand why some want to fight so vehemently to deny what is happening; the truth to too frightening to acknowledge.

a reply to: anonentity

I find it difficult to attribute that to members who are simply engaging in their own expressive will.

I don't deny that such things as programmatic entities exist and are used to disrupt dialogue. But in the end, there isn't enough processing power to provide for any such entity to act on its own. It must be launched and directed by a person, none of whom seem terribly dedicated to being that 'smart.'

Discussion such as you propose (and I honor) cannot be controlled, despite those technologies.

Perhaps they entered the thread with an embedded bias. Many do. Perhaps they 'misunderstood' by focusing on a single utterance, some do. Perhaps they had their sensitivities triggered by the context of the topic, as so often happens. Perhaps some 'go on the offensive' whenever they face a certain subject or delivery style.

Some of these seem always to remind me that some are also wanting to object, as a practice of expression.

There are simply too many possibilities available for me to assume 'agenda' wherever there is disagreement.

I humbly offer a suggestion, which applies often and nearly everywhere on ATS: Never 'characterize' people in the discussion to their detriment. Never marginalize someone else's words or thoughts as of lesser value. In honest dialogue such things are unnecessary... to get to the point of the topic - you must engage the topic... not each other.

Don't be distracted.

Sorry if that sounds pretentious... you probably don't need me to tell you these things. (Let's just pretend I like saying them.)

a reply to: marg6043

The globalist plan is to cause chaos and then come up with a solution. Probably it will go something like "all those dirty unwashed anti-vax protesters are causing disruption, they are obviously terrorists or being primed by a terrorist organization, Probably Russia and we can't have this mayhem and property damage, so we will have to suspend all rights and bring in martial law. for your protection" But the harder the push the harder will be the push back.

Still waiting for Europe to freeze to death

a reply to: Cutepants

It is springtime in Britain, have a look. www.theguardian.com...

There are problems in France but there isn't popular outrage about France being a NATO member nation.

At the governmental level, France has, in the past, chosen various levels of participation in NATO and will probably adjust their stance again at some point in the future. All that has much more to do with the French government's positioning of its role within Europe and vis-a-vis the USA.

Macron is forcing unpopular changes to the French pension system. The situation is in general fueled by a widespread dislike of Macron.

Cheers

a reply to: Maxmars

I think you just preached a practice...

Sorry if that sounds pretentious... you probably don't need me to tell you these things. (Let's just pretend I like saying them.)

Some things just need defining to be understood, sometimes that requires saying it out loud, writing it down or expressing it repeatedly like a mantra.

Nice post!

Europe collapsing? Maybe, I'm sure bits will rise too it just depends what's being looked at. Human power structures are somewhat triangle shaped aren't they but in the minds of people the foundation is the pointy bit.

It's not by force either.

We often place experts above us in all walks of life because they're experts. Then again we're drifting into a dreamy world of personality cults where popularity is as good as reputation in any field. Good and bad? That entirely depends on if your side is #winning right?

Don't be distracted...
Triangles? The best way to break them?
Turn them upside down and apply pressure to the base.

I think in the end society will reshape, it always does. With a bit weathering a new peak will form as it always does... Something will chew at the base again?

Maybe the chewing is what happens on ATS, at the bus stop or in aisles of Walmart. There's some kind of disease that's hard to detect that drives us apart. Communicate.

Personally I'd say globalism is a must, it's a done deal. We should live as local as possible though, I have a few thoughts on how we could go about that and it involves putting triangles the right way round.

a reply to: Maxmars

i think for some especially since brexit the only place they exist in this world is through nato, thus through nato they exist as an idea.. it seems more prevalent in the uk than anywhere else especially since Brexit.

an honest apraisal is europes f*cked its the canary in the global coalmine, its the weakest link, deindustrialising at a rapid pace and being left behind technologically and no amount of shouting in britain can change that..

it boils down to this we can no longer save ourselves as a country let alone save europe this would be obvious to anyone seeing the multipolar world emerging..

Europe has 2 choices remain on its current path or pivot towards China and pragmatism says they'll pivot to china to save themselves, what happens to the current alliances then is anyone's guess.. but in britain many defend a europe that doesn't exist in reality..

europe is already knee deep in migrant crisis 2 and looking at euro crisis 2 as Europe did zero to fix the issues of the previous ones.

as for britain, this is where the joke about outrunning lions by making yourself unattractive is made real, countries do the same by making itself far less attractive than alternatives; Britain, for various reasons, wants to remain far more attractive than the european alternatives so i now at the spear point of problems

this is why when the UK pivots next (and it will) it'll come as shock as the rug is pulled out from under the feet of many who believe in a reality that doesn't exist.. its ow the polls ended up claiming remain would win by 15% on the day of the brexit vote and why trump could never win..

we are in the same space when an imagined reality and the material reality are about to collide..

this is absolutely true of north america too our media crafted imained and material realities are about to collide..

the failure sits with those trying to craft a golden age from feelings and wishes rather than the blood sweat and tears that built the western world..

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

nato though is an extension of a US led order and in britain nato means it remains a key partner of value..

if europe pivots towards china where does that leave the existing alliances..

Britain's golden age with china was doing the same up to brexit.. it left a question on the existing alliances so the uk was forging new ones outside of nato..

a reply to: nickyw

The EU had a far too rosy view of foreign relations for decades. That view is now in dispute because of the migrants and the war in Ukraine.

As things sort out, alliances and postures may well change.

Cheers

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: MykeNukem

Even the MSM is misreporting it and saying it's being caused by pensions or whatever crap they made up...

So, what actual evidence do you have that suggests its being 'misreported' and 'made up'?

Honestly, what makes you think that?

The pension BS is just the straw that broke the camels back.

Millions don't protest because of pensions alone, there is a lot more to it, like Europe being in a complete mess right now.

Hear it from the horses mouth:

As 21-year-old protester Lalie Geffriaud put it, “It’s not just about pension reform – it’s about a broader opposition to the direction this country is taking.”
[url=https://www.france24.com/en/france/20230131-not-just-about-pensions-french-protesters-see-threat-to-social-justice-in-macron-s-reform]France24[/u rl]

Just like the Freedom Convoy was about fuel prices when MSM first started reporting, and the protests in Brazil had nothing to do with stolen elections.

They've been protesting cost of living increases (food, fuel, etc) in France for four months now. Did you know that?

MSM are liars, plain and simple.

That's why I think that.

originally posted by: Maxmars

Wasn't the thrust of the message about how there is a hell of a lot of citizen dissent going on all over Europe at the moment?

That's been the case for the past 2,000 years at least .....

If anything there's less dissent at the moment! Certainly compared to pre Covid. And Russia has some blame for that, uniting Europe like never before.

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

eta preface this wasn't meant to be me on a high horse as i only have a hobby horse

the postures where already changing pre crimea.. the uk pivoted north in 2010 and started setting up alliances outside of nato and eu.. its sought mutual defence pacts with fellow nato members.. and new economic alliances.

the bottom-line of that we could see (pre crimea) a europe of 3 blocks.. the northern alliance, uk/nordics/baltics, middle europe with germany and the med union. with France trying to straddle all camps eg the CJEF with the uk

in a sense that added "tear here" lines to europe.. at the same time as the uk pivoted to Chinas for the *cough* golden age it also pivoted towards japan to rekindle the anglo japanese alliance..

the shape of Nato had changed before crimea or brexit.. the problem i see is where these blocks go now.. the deindustrialisation of the EUs industrial giant, it economic backstop and lender of last resort is a key worry.. it needs cheap energy and has left itself no wiggle room to be competitive..

in hindsight you can see Cameron's bid with Merkel to get a bwtter deal on immigration meant the threat they'd lose full access to the north sea gas fields, feilds that'd help them break your reliance on russian gas in the new eu states.. with bluff called the uk votes and the conservatives lose.. into that void comes climate change/extinction rebellion types ensuring the only cheap source of energy is russian... useful idiots rather than putin stooges..

i still find it strange that even post crimea and brexit the eu fought the uk more than russia.. which is a big reason we are here, the eu could have pivoted from russian gas back to north sea gas but that'd mean working with the uk.. it seems Russia was the better partner..

this is a catalogue of failures filled with sulks and hubris that leaves europe with a number of tear here lines and military blocks that are very visible in the way they've responded to the russian invasion of ukraine.. but as those blocks work together on common threats its easy to see what an emerging active nato block could look like

this leaves the eu proper moving from being a challenge to the us and china to being in thrall of one or the other to survive.

north sea gas is still there..but then so are the climate protestorsm it befuddles the mind its such a easy win, no one needs to starve, be cold, print trillions or deindustrialise.. it just takes courage to work with an ally and deal with the climate nutters.. since when did working with an ally mean one party as to be humiliated..

a reply to: nickyw

There is also the divide between the western and eastern members of the EU. The eastern countries still have fresh memories of Russian domination and are dumbfounded by the stance of the western members.

My take on that is harsh. French and German "elites" are still stuck in a 19th century view of smaller European states -- pawns to be pushed around and even taken. This is why both of those countries cry out for understanding Putin's approach, because his approach is 19th-century as Hell. The smaller western European countries go along because their elites are corrupted by EU money and influence, and they just hope the peace will hold.

None of the above addresses the challenge of migration and the changes to European society that it will accelerate.

I find the EU stance toward the UK foolish. The two parties can still work together to mutual advantage, but the clique in Brussels (and Berlin and Paris) are extremists, thus the bridge-burning tactics we've seen thus far.

A lot of tension from various parties in Europe.

Cheers

a reply to: anonentity

Yes, we have had a bit of snow. Bloody cold, mostly up North. We have had snow in April before.

So what?

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

that's a pretty spot on take, its not surprising the eastern state fear that given that last few hundred years of being annexed and turned into buffer states.. poland in particular was the super highway to/from berlin/moscow..when you read the history its easy to see the angst..

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

Bit of a thaw between us and France with Sunak meeting with Macron today. "Entente renewed"? Maybe:

BBC News - Sunak and Macron summit: UK to give £500m to help France curb small boat crossings
www.bbc.co.uk...