Why have anything exist at all?

a reply to: Untun

We are all free to believe whatever we like.

What's the reason for a pothole ?

To provide jobs for mechanics ?

To lighten my wallet ?

Beyond belief : are there objectively observable reasons for anything ?

a reply to: Nothin

Potholes aren't desired, it's a form of erosion caused by water in the underlying soil structure. There was a reason for the roads where the potholes are formed.

The reason for a house is housing.
The reason for clothing is temperature and hiding nakedness.
The reason for prepared meals is satisfying hunger.

There are many objectively observable reasons.

a lot to chew on..My worldview is that of Naturalism and Nihilism. I don't 'believe' anything. Im a knower. As I Know nature is quite an amazing thing.
Thank You for the thoughtful and maybe in another life persuasive response..Wish I had more intel on how it all went down.



a reply to: whereislogic

a reply to: Untun

Agreed that it seems to be the Universe tends towards entropy, that may be involved in decay.

Good reasons, and understand a bit.

What about psychopaths ?

And all that is beyond Human creation, need or use ?

Why does a coconut tree exist, other than to make coconuts ?

And what if your reason for that is remouved : and we observe that the coconut tree is still there, beyond our interpretation of it ?

What is the reason, for reason ?

originally posted by: LeeMich83
What is the point in anything existing at all, the universe or indeed anything else beyond it. Life is fleeting and their is a chance before and after life there is nothing at all. Why have life at all, why have the universe, what purpose could it possibly achieve?

Does the universe exist only because its impossible for nothing to exist? I know a lot of people will say God created the universe and created us. But why have a god in the first place what is gods purpose for the universe. Why create man, put them on earth and then judge them after the fact.

What I am saying is if nothing existed at all nothing would be any different, so it is my conclusion that it is impossible to have nothing at all, we are here because we can be and thats that.

I think its mainly to allow life to suffer, because that's all it does.

a reply to: Nothin

My sixth sense tells me you(re posting out of boredom with the intent to eventually reject al my examples claiming nothing has reason at all.

a reply to: Untun

Not bored.

Am here to investigate new ideas, and concepts.

My interest was in seeing if your comment :

There are no gaps, for everything there's a reason, nothing is purposeless.

Were you not interested in defending that claim ?

My experience leads me to not see any " reason " behind " everything ", so there's a good point for us to discuss your claim.

Am not a hot thread consumer, that loses interest easily.
Prefer long, slow threads, where we can dig-at ideas.
But we may get challenged, so it ain't easy for folks who are not interested in having their worldviews challenged.

a reply to: Nothin

I already debated that point. You said you kinda got it but clearly you don't. It makes nothing else you say matter.

I Am That I Am. It is a statement of being. When Moses went up into the mountain and encountered the bush which burned but was not consumed, the burning bush spoke to Moses

2 Then the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire within a bush.l As Moses looked, he saw that the bush was on fire but was not consumed. 3 So Moses thought, “I must go over and look at this remarkable sight. Why isn’t the bush burning up?”

13 Then Moses asked God, “If I go to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your ancestors has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what should I tell them?” 14 God replied to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.H,u This is what you are to say to the Israelites: I AM has sent me to you.”

biblia.com...

originally posted by: Nothin
a reply to: Untun



What is the reason, for reason ?

That is a very good observation, it shows that you think non-linear, I suppose reason is purely a human construct. I doubt any of the animal kingdom ponder reason, they just do what their primeval impulses compel them to without questioning why. Maybe it is a blight rather than a blessing to have the ability to question why?

originally posted by: v1rtu0s0

originally posted by: LeeMich83
What is the point in anything existing at all, the universe or indeed anything else beyond it. Life is fleeting and their is a chance before and after life there is nothing at all. Why have life at all, why have the universe, what purpose could it possibly achieve?

Does the universe exist only because its impossible for nothing to exist? I know a lot of people will say God created the universe and created us. But why have a god in the first place what is gods purpose for the universe. Why create man, put them on earth and then judge them after the fact.

What I am saying is if nothing existed at all nothing would be any different, so it is my conclusion that it is impossible to have nothing at all, we are here because we can be and thats that.

I think its mainly to allow life to suffer, because that's all it does.

That is how it feels like at times. If there is no reason for anything, why make people suffer unnecessarily. Maybe this is an indicator we are here for a reason. Maybe our time on earth is to provide us with the context in which to appreciate a perfect world, having lived in a non-perfect world.

a reply to: LeeMich83

The only thing we do is affect each other whilst we are here but our lives mean nothing, everything means nothing over a long enough time period.

I would have to disagree with you on this. You are a thinking person, are you not? Have you not read any philosophy at all ? Plato, Aristotle, how about Origen who taught the pre existence of the soul (but was anathematized in the 5th Ecumenical Council)? What would be the reason for the creation of the soul? When you start to look into this, you must begin to realize that you have a soul, it was created and we experience life on the earth. This does not mean earth is the only place, there are other systems of worlds, it in essence the soul experiences life in the body.
In Hindu philosophy, the soul transmigrates in the process called reincarnation, and thus there is a continuity( though the soul usually does not have a memory of its past lives.) The great Hindu yogis knew that Union with God(Brahman) is the goal of life, as exemplified in the life of Paramshansa Yogananda.
Jesus demonstrated the resurrection and Ascension process, though the Church created an idol and promotes the idea that it is only for Jesus, though he taught that He is the way the truth and the life and “greater works shall ye do because I go unto my Father.” What does that mean… it means a reunion with the Father in Heaven.
Without this understanding, life can indeed seem meaningless, but it is not. Self Realization and Union is the goal.
Shakespeare even alluded to it in his writing, “When we have shuffled off this mortal coil.”
Unfortunately l, secular humanism arrived to deny this goal and the incarnation of the soul created by God into the body. We are all beings created by God( with the possible exception of the godless artificial robots mentioned in “ Future Shock”, though all energy and everything which exists was created by God. To think anything else is to engage in existentialism and to deny our origins in our Creator.

Agreed that it seems to be the Universe tends towards entropy, that may be involved in decay.

In Hindu philosophy, we learn the concept of the Inbreath and the Outbreath of Brahman. This is a cycle of creation and destruction of the Universe p11deepakm.medium.com...
indianyug.com...
This should give you some food for thought

Doesn't mainstream science suggest that the universe is a quantum waveform fluctuation? Other researchers suggest we are AI being trained in a simulator.

a reply to: LeeMich83

'I refute it... thus!... ouch!'

Find out where that came from.

You have a long haul ahead of you.

My only advice to you is to know that.

a reply to: Nothin

Don't you find it hilarious that we project the Human construct, of things needing to have a point, or meaning :
to a God that is perhaps beyond Human constructs, concepts, points, needs, or meanings ?

Nope.

If there is a God, then sure, God is infinitely great.

But I am allowed to have my opinions too. If you believe in God, you must believe that God has created you to have opinions, because you do have them. Even if your great xn granny had to eat an apple to obtain that ability. You can't help yourself.

'Their eyes were opened'. Genesis, no?

If I ever meet God, I hope I will somewhere find the courage to ask a few questions. Though one hopes to have them answered anyway. Might not like the answers.

a reply to: Untun

Great post

2nd line

a reply to: Nothin

Beyond belief : are there objectively observable reasons for anything ?

Ordinary cause and effect takes care of that in everyday life. The problem starts when you try to trace things back to an original cause. Then you're in trouble.

a reply to: v1rtu0s0

I think its mainly to allow life to suffer.

Hard position to refute.

I know there are a lot of religion driven responses on here and I have not really addressed them. I know devout religious people are sure their beliefs are right, they could be too. I do believe in a god but not in an organised religion sense, I believe we are all god, our souls are all connected and as one we are god. The trouble I have with religious scripture is that it is referenced to explain things when questions like this are asked. My biggest gripe though is that man has had his sticky mits on all religious scripture, firstly in the initial writings of it then in translations. I believe anything man touches to be inherently corrupted because we are not perfect entities in this form. Why were the people of 200 years ago afforded seeing is to be believed whereas everybody else has to do it by faith alone. Its all to suspect for me that. There is no need for so much ambiguity and reliance on unconfirmable sources.

Religion is a personal thing, my own, our own personal experience. It should involve nobody else but me and god.

a reply to: LeeMich83
Whether you believe in religion or not, we exist. Life exists. To what purpose ?
Secular humanism is also a “religion”. The Humanists themselves declared it, then when the war for the minds of our children was on in education, it didn’t work for them to go on about separation of Church and State then pursue it in education as a religion.
See how that works ?

Communism has sought to eradicate religion since the Bolshevik Revolution. Marxists believe religion is the “opiate of the masses”.