Ideas to Reinvent Education from the ground up.

Hello everyone,

longtime lurker. I rarely respond to anything online as I have a hard time keeping my emotions and my thoughts balanced which can make debating and arguments come out wrong. So I have been on the path of self-awareness using knowledge and concepts to use internally as a framework for self control. I'm a work in progress. I have been wondering about the idea of reinventing education from the ground up by using ideas from cultures around the world. what works, what doesn't and what's missing. Without 20 pages of philosophy I just used a list of the ideas i had and was hoping the community would have ideas, insight or even what they hate about it. I am looking for perception which is unique to each of us based on our lifetime of accumulated knowledge and current understanding of that knowledge. my goal or vision is to eventually have something to take to someone and see if its possible to start a school as the goal is to be non profit. you should not have to pay to stay updated in your field or gain knowledge to be part of society kind of like an open source belongs to humanity sort of thing. I'm slowly figuring this post thing out or I would link to a copy of my first draft which is mostly philosophy. anyone that helps should be given credit and if I can link a concept or idea to someone currently alive or in history to something used in the school I feel it will go further to belonging to humanity as a whole. This all came from a lifetime of accumulated knowledge rattling around in my unconscious and felt the need to get it out after years of thinking about it.

This may go nowhere or it will gain steam but figured i would at least share my thoughts in case someone can make use of them.

The Akashic Foundation for Human Enlightenment
Whoever makes the education and supplies the knowledge becomes the difference between freedom and oppression.
every child gets a chance at education starting from cradle to the grave regardless how rich or poor. all children are the future of humanity.
Personalized education and nutrition tailored to each student's needs and interests, replace existing colleges and universities by branching out into specialized branches making learning a way of life.
Teaching emotional intelligence alongside traditional education
Teaching the Concepts of the 7 Vices and Virtues and how they and our emotions are all intermingled triggered by our thoughts, actions, environment and those in it. I don't need religion to feel shame or greed their just concepts, knowledge. its how we use it that matters.
Use of martial arts, Qigong, Tai Chi, and yoga for physical education and emotional control
Apprenticeship opportunities and job interests based off students strengths and weakness and what makes them happy, for example some people just love math.
A secure cryptocurrency for payment and data security
An orphanage with emphasis on education, critical thinking and personal growth
After-school clubs and activities run by the students, with an emphasis on business and finance education, also included are the traditional sports
Environmental sustainability practices such as use of renewable energy sources, water filtration and recycling systems, and recycling technologies
A pay scale for students based on level of education and opportunities for earning bonuses
Reinventing education from the ground up to address current issues and provide a safe and inclusive environment for students.
self defense training for staff, students and parents. Children are the most precious resources humanity has, they are blank slates that can be taught to further humanity or manipulated and used to hinder and stagnate it for selfish reasons.
a community hub where family's can hang out with out family's and volunteer or participate in activities as well as a community cafeteria to feed family's that cant afford it or don't have the time to cook.
Before Traditional Education Starts, We start our education the moment we are born and that education starts with your 5 senses and your parents education, their lifetime of accumulated knowledge and emotional experiences making them who they are and how they see the world. It is important that the education be tailored to an overall goal for humanity like Curiosity and exploration of the unknown. it needs to be a vison of the many and not the few.
A case can be made for educating also based on left handed versus right handed brain functionality.
Education and Religion/spirituality are two separate concepts and its only my opinion that they should be separate. Knowledge and Understanding gained from education helps with understanding of religion, spirituality and self. Religion and Spirituality should be a solo or family pursuit and the school left out of it other then to gain knowledge to help with understanding. Maybe have a Library of Aleksander in the school
Thank you for your time taken to read.
Alek

No need to re-invent education. Just go back to what it was in the 70's and 80's. I worked for my generation and the generations before that.
There were no participation trophies, and no woke agenda.
Just listen to the teacher or prof, study hard, and graduate.

Thank you for your response and your opinion. I am not being sarcastic when i say it provoked thought, so much appreciated.

originally posted by: Violater1
No need to re-invent education. Just go back to what it was in the 70's and 80's. I worked for my generation and the generations before that.
There were no participation trophies, and no woke agenda.
Just listen to the teacher or prof, study hard, and graduate.

Not sure where you got woke or participation trophies from but the rest of what you said is more or less in line with the philosophy of what I wrote. The generations before us didn't have our tech and there was less of us. what worked then may work for awhile but will keep running into the same problems unless the education and humanities emotional intelligence match our technology. Having knowledge is one thing having the knowledge to understand it is another. Controlling ones emotions with all that knowledge is a whole separate branch of thinking.

originally posted by: Violater1
No need to re-invent education. Just go back to what it was in the 70's and 80's. I worked for my generation and the generations before that.
There were no participation trophies, and no woke agenda.
Just listen to the teacher or prof, study hard, and graduate.

Almost. One major PROBLEM we still had back then was limiting us children to "grade levels" (There was incentive to have kids in school for government money and skipping grades was next to impossible). There should be an option to test out of your grade at Math, reading, etc and advance to the next, test, advance to the next.


Those of us who tried could have had advanced to college level courses in high school and graduated high school with college degrees.

Secondly, re work the "Degree" system to remove all the useless elective bullcrap. Half or more of college classes are useless filler to employee people who got a useless degree in crap and can only teach crap.

Seriously, if we had streamlined degrees, you could easily get a BS in 2 years or less by removing the useless credit classes.

3rd, No Politics in School. Remove the insanity and focus solely on real education, not political causes, social causes, and the rest of the political trash (except in a politics class of course).

Discipline. Remove the PoS's that disrupt, fight, bully, etc.

No $hit tard left behind policies have to go, they really are "drag everyone down" policies. Stick them in a reform dorm and let the 90% of kids who want to excel, excel.

Problems solved.... any questions?

The US government controls public education and decides what children can and can't learn. More parents are opting for private or charter schools because they're seeing public school pushing woke agendas they don't agree with. Some parents are fortunate enough to be in a position to homeschool their kids, so there are options and they're gaining in popularity.

It boils down to money for most, though. While our taxes pay for public education, you can use the system in place without an additional monthly fee; other options require fees to fund them, and it's hard to come up with that much extra money when you're struggling with runaway inflation. School budgets are in the millions, so that's a big mountain to climb.

originally posted by: infolurker

originally posted by: Violater1
No need to re-invent education. Just go back to what it was in the 70's and 80's. I worked for my generation and the generations before that.
There were no participation trophies, and no woke agenda.
Just listen to the teacher or prof, study hard, and graduate.

Almost. One major PROBLEM we still had back then was limiting us children to "grade levels" (There was incentive to have kids in school for government money and skipping grades was next to impossible). There should be an option to test out of your grade at Math, reading, etc and advance to the next, test, advance to the next.


Those of us who tried could have had advanced to college level courses in high school and graduated high school with college degrees.

Secondly, re work the "Degree" system to remove all the useless elective bullcrap. Half or more of college classes are useless filler to employee people who got a useless degree in crap and can only teach crap.

Seriously, if we had streamlined degrees, you could easily get a BS in 2 years or less by removing the useless credit classes.

3rd, No Politics in School. Remove the insanity and focus solely on real education, not political causes, social causes, and the rest of the political trash (except in a politics class of course).

Discipline. Remove the PoS's that disrupt, fight, bully, etc.

No $hit tard left behind policies have to go, they really are "drag everyone down" policies. Stick them in a reform dorm and let the 90% of kids who want to excel, excel.

Problems solved.... any questions?

To all of that I would say each child should have a tailored educational and nutritional experience based off their strengths and weaknesses and allowed to work at their own pace in how fast and how much knowledge they gain in their pursuit to whatever Job or goal they may have. I agree there should be no outside political influence or influence of wealth. Educating and finding better ways of educating future humans should only ever be the goal and a school policy made that will not let any other policy betray it. Teach respect, to treat others how you want to be treated and be the example you would like others to be.

The hope is with education in emotional intelligence paired with qigong, tai-chi or yoga, maybe even all three or some other skill that helps with self control will reduce if not eliminate bulling. maybe even do an after school activity or club that holds tournaments for kids to blow off steam and train their self defense skills. Teach every child self defense and keep it a lifetime habit. If you find what you love to do at a young age then you should be mentored and supported. jobs aren't jobs when you enjoy them, they become challenges and thought exercises in how to improve on or even reinvent what you do, they become hobbies and a way of life.

originally posted by: nugget1
The US government controls public education and decides what children can and can't learn. More parents are opting for private or charter schools because they're seeing public school pushing woke agendas they don't agree with. Some parents are fortunate enough to be in a position to homeschool their kids, so there are options and they're gaining in popularity.

It boils down to money for most, though. While our taxes pay for public education, you can use the system in place without an additional monthly fee; other options require fees to fund them, and it's hard to come up with that much extra money when you're struggling with runaway inflation. School budgets are in the millions, so that's a big mountain to climb.

That is my thinking as well. preferably reinvent and replace current public education all together . If the school can help a child invent something then maybe share in a small percentage of the profits. Setup up green energy projects as a class and way to produce power and other recyclables. setup contracts with companies for apprenticeships where in the contracts the company pays a fee to fund the students education. initial funding is indeed the roadblock. ideas can be thought of to help the school sustain self funding but getting control from the government into the hands of the people is not going to be cheap. Cryptocurrency could be another avenue, can also be used to secure the school data. maybe get the states to fund them as the school should be adaptable to location and culture while keeping the same knowledge available for any child in their path through life. setup a go fund me or something and get humanity, country or state involved in a common goal for their children's future. The people should be making the education not the few in the government.

One thing we can do is stop trying to make everyone an academic caliber adult. Some aren't, and that is just fine. The apprentice mastery system worked for millenia. Start weeding kids out of purely academic paths at 12 or 13 and provide them quality skilled labor education. STEM isn't for everyone or even the majority.

If they blossom and decide they want the higher ed, they can always go, but the idea that you are somehow a second class citizen if you are blue collar, or just skilled service industry has got to change, and at the same time bring back the mastery in the trades that can only exist with the apprentice mastery system.

The reality is, the system is broken and there will have to be revolution in the way people approach life for things to change. Bring back tradition and moral importance. Structure, pride and emphasis on some of the lost the details (manners, posture, dress, appearance, honor). All of those have a place in education.

"Better" isn't necessarily more advanced. If people are happier, proud of their state of existence, and more fulfilled instead of questioning whether they will fit in if they cut off their junk, maybe that's "better" regardless of what cool stuff can be made or how edumakated they are.

Sorry for the ramble.

Falun Dafa Hao!

originally posted by: Halfswede
One thing we can do is stop trying to make everyone an academic caliber adult. Some aren't, and that is just fine. The apprentice mastery system worked for millenia. Start weeding kids out of purely academic paths at 12 or 13 and provide them quality skilled labor education. STEM isn't for everyone or even the majority.

If they blossom and decide they want the higher ed, they can always go, but the idea that you are somehow a second class citizen if you are blue collar, or just skilled service industry has got to change, and at the same time bring back the mastery in the trades that can only exist with the apprentice mastery system.

The reality is, the system is broken and there will have to be revolution in the way people approach life for things to change. Bring back tradition and moral importance. Structure, pride and emphasis on some of the lost the details (manners, posture, dress, appearance, honor). All of those have a place in education.

"Better" isn't necessarily more advanced. If people are happier, proud of their state of existence, and more fulfilled instead of questioning whether they will fit in if they cut off their junk, maybe that's "better" regardless of what cool stuff can be made or how edumakated they are.

Sorry for the ramble.

Falun Dafa Hao!

I like it, well said. Humans shouldn't be required to know everything, they should do what their good at and what they enjoy. Their education should be tailored to the field of work the are good at and enjoy. Yes there is some cross over in educational concepts in different fields of possible jobs but at varying levels of degree. If all you want to do is farm and your learning astral physics it should be as a hobby or possible future job. it should not be required unless your path requires it or you volunteer to learn. the education in emotional intelligence should help with any mental instabilities that arise as one walks through life. Every Job Humanity has is Vital in its own way and there are people that love doing all those jobs and not others. put people where they want to be and you have a happier work force.

Aleksander-Yes! philo/epistemology

Been thinking along similar lines for the last few years. Pearls aren't for the hogs, but we need to teach symbolism, allegory, some esotericism, of tradition & higher calling, merit, to explore, achieve, master.(we used to)

With all of the ---noize-- and demoralization, distraction, division, drama, consumerism, surveillance capitalism, predatory advertising, and the inordinate amount of information operations and psy-ops circulating the airwaves and IP addresses the last few years; and much before that; I have to say that it took something like COVID tyranny and the over the top absurdities and lies to pull the veil (further) off for many folks; I believe enough so, that despite all the distraction above, there has been some ample time to pay attention to some of the real things and root causes that have made this current train wreck/debacle, of society, nation, world..

Speaking specific to the West, and the US; its obvious that our YOUTH has either been coddled and given participation trophies, or has been completely let down by our education system; and perhaps both are true--along with the whole paradigm of generational turn and the whole "Good times create weaker me, weaker men create screwed up situations from lack of wisdom, and that creates bad times that eventually turn out some stronger men again, to create better times".

But there seems to be something else, beneath the surface; I don't want to say that our schools have been gradually dumbed down on purpose, because to think any political party would want to indoctrinate all youth and remove critical thinking and dumb down the future people running society they live, would be suicide..
However, I'm not saying that there isn't the possibility of an adversary performing their 5th gen tactics, and we in the west that feel invincible, with our limited attention spans, would probably not be successful in identifying actual ideological subversion operations spanning decades, occurring in our country across business domains, especially in academia and higher ed... Because we in the west simply can't detect when we are being used as something bigger to take a culture and an economy and a nation down. Most of us don't have the attention spans to investigate the kinds of subversion specifically targeted to slowly cripple the west, because we are no longer taught about communist's revolutions in school! How perfect is that detail? And if someone did identify the subversion, they would never be able to gather the necessary consensus to do anything about it because they would be immediately branded a racists or anti-Semite, or a nut job conspiracy theorist.
So now is a time when an awakening is occurring, and things that are common sense are being purposely thrown on their heads upside down, for the sole purpose of gaslighting, frustrating, demoralizing, and getting the masses to no longer be able to sense what is fake and what is true, and ultimately questioning their own sanity... It takes a strong character and constitution and upbringing and some critical thinking and knowledge of things WELL outside what our public schools teach, what our mocking birds in the main stream media and entertainment parrot; it takes some intelligent and wise and evolved and detached to a certain degree, people, to be able to LOOK at the current situation and see that what YOU said above, is THE WAY WE MOVE FORWARD, because we need to fight for something real to pass to them, and for them to KNOW what it IS that they are being bestowed with, this divine American experiment of Freedom, Liberty, Pursuit of Happiness, Personal Property, and something much less corrupted that the current status quo is; that is leaning on corporatocracy, where our entire elected government is up for sale; in that any PR firm in New York, can tell you within a few minutes, how much it will cost to win ANY given office across the US.
Education curriculum and perhaps the whole paradigm that accompanies current public school needs to be remade...
Perhaps the 7am to 2pm etc. M-F and same classes inside fluorescent lights aren't the way to go.. Maybe there are other ways that engage the developing mind more, and takes advantage of advanced things we already know.. But also, standardization comes in and collectivism, and welfare.. these things are these big decisions made by bureacrats looking at spreadsheets, and deciding on the future LITERALLY of society, the quality of the information they learn to process and get along, WAS made at the ending aggregation of many dollar amounts and line items; and many decisions have been POORLY made at a national or state level, certainly not the individual level.
When you only value these things a certain way; bureaocracies seem to only get fatter and more inefficient. The way our nation seems to be going more nationalist and local comunity focused, which is ideal. Because the current state of public schools, is enough that all 5 of the mothers I know with toddlers or babies, are planning on home schooling all the way; whereas that same demographic (income level and community) never had that idea 5 or 10 years ago.
When we value again as a society the individual children's education, and look at that child as a divine spark to carry oin this race; rather than a useless eater, a drain on the system, when you look at certain communities and schools that are violent and not passing at 3rd grade reading at a high school; it may be easier for beaurocrat's hard decisions about counties and funding and policy; and if those kind of school administrators stay in education and get a county or state position in 10 years, that jaded thinking follows them and they are rewarded AGAIN by what they can make a spreadsheet look like at the end of the day-- and BY GOD if they are looking at not getting a bonus this year, that they need to send their own daughter to college; I have to imagine that in that kind of system of rewards, that if there was a vote to purchase math textbooks for 11th grade that were known to get the D & F students to pass the standardized testing where the administrators in that district would make bonus, but there was a little blurb at the bottom that the text book would also leave the students that make As & Bs with no challenges for the next 2 years I'm sure they would've gotten their bonus, just sayin! and that is our public school system. Back to that ideological subversion, You have to guess at the genius of coupling a set of ideas that later tear apart entirely wholesome and strong systems; with something so innocuous as a humanitarian movement; which is how all of these communist revolutions get their first group of useful idiots-by making up some kind of absurdly common sense obvious cause, that exactly 0 people don't support, but they know how to create the narrative with fear and propaganda; and all of the sudden-- we have a group of bleeding hearts fighting for the oppressed group of people on earth that cannot roll their tongue.. because of that genetic trait missing, people apparently have been refusing to give them jobs, there will be a news story about one who broke down in New Jersey, stopped at a gas station where huge rednecks came over and said "Hey this is MAGA Country... lets see if you can roll your tongue? well can ya? or are you a FLAT TONGUER??" And that was when the riots started-j/k God Bless

At this point I think the only way to rescue the public education system is to force it onto a merit based pay scale. If your class passes, you get paid the most. If your class fails, you lose your job. Same thing for the school itself. If the school is turning out passing students they get funded. If they are turning out a bunch of woke idiots, no money for you.

I don't think there would be many teachers willing to waste time on woke subject matter if their pay check was on the line. If Johnny can pass reading, writing, and arithmetic, you get paid. If Johnny doesn't know what bathroom to use after taking your class - you get fired. Simple.

I would link this directly, but it has non-traditional YouTube tagging. Maybe someone else can oblige.

This is a Thomas Sowell speech Equity: The Thief of Human Potential. It is longer, but in it, he addresses the problems with equity as opposed to equality. It expounds upon ideas he addresses in his book "The Quest for Cosmic Justice", and he relates it specifically to education explaining why it's a problem.

There might be some wisdom there for you.

In any experiment, failure to produce a certain desired outcome means one needs to revert to the stable parameters previously known and make all changes from there. Success, even a partial success, means one may keep the new parameters and try for increased success.

Public education policy changes are always an experiment. The desired outcome should be improved ability of graduating students to not just hold a job, but to succeed at whatever career path they choose. That worked to a large degree at one time, when I was attending public school; since then, public school failures have been on the rise. That means each policy change during that time period has been an experimental failure. However, we did not return to established parameters after such failures, so we do not know what the result of each experiment since then actually is. We only know what the combined effects of those experiments are: continued failure.

Consider this: You have a car which runs rough and you want to make it run smoother. You're not sure why it is running rough, though. So you think "Maybe if I adjust the carburetor"... but that doesn't work. Now it runs rougher than before. Instead of setting the carburetor back to how it was, you leave it alone and advance the spark. Oops, running even rougher! Well, maybe the spark plug wires need to be switched over. Nope, no good, that just made it worse.

Perhaps it turns out that all the car needed was better gas and a new gas filter. But now, even when you put fresh gas and a new filter in, the spark plug wires are crossed, the timing is off, the carburetor isn't set properly... and the car is still running rougher than before! All because you never reverted to a previously stable condition! The chances of actually making the car run better have dropped to almost zero.

Here's a partial list of policy changes that have occurred since I was in public schools:

• The decline of corporal punishment.
  
• The use of Ritalin (and other psychoactive drugs) to control unruly students.
  
• Law enforcement overused to exercise control.
  
• Gun-free zones.
  
• Younger and younger sex-ed classes.
  
• Birth control administered to students for the asking.
  
• The removal of any hint of religious tolerance.
  
• The removal of the "Pledge of Allegiance."
  
• The zero-tolerance policy against "bullies" (which in my experience means that the actual bullies are protected while those being bullied are accused of bullying and suspended or expelled).
  
• The removal of "You want to fight? Here, put on these boxing gloves and you can fight." That sounds barbaric, I know, but I have personally seen those matches turn into a lifelong friendship on more than one occasion.
  
• The forced acceptance of "political correctness."
  
• Revised history.
  
• Standardized national testing.
  
• Reluctance to hold a student back a grade when they do not learn.
  
• "No Child Left Behind" (aka "No Child Moves Ahead").
  
• Tenured teachers.
  
• Teachers with political agendas.
  
• Attempts to turn a school into a maximum-security prison.
  
• Indifference to parents.
  
• Critical Race Theory.
  
• Sexualization of children.
  
• Drag shows.
  
• Incompetent teachers.
  
• Remote learning.
  
• "Social" homework instead of academic homework.
  
• Removal of classes on civics, handwriting, etc.
  
• "Common Core," a principle that was designed to allow teachers to tailor to individual students, but has instead been used to force every student to fail in one way or another.
  
• Participation trophies.

And that's only a partial list. I was still coming up with changed policy experiments, but I simply got tired of typing.

Anyone can come up with any idea on a new education system, but the simple truth is that we do not need a new education system... we need our old education system back so we can try to actually improve on it. A concern has been raised that technology is much more complex and the numbers are higher than they were before... fine. Those may be valid concerns to be addressed. But we will never know, because we must have that base line to compare to.

I'll also point out a couple of unworkable sections: It is simply not possible to tailor each student's education to the degree that appears to be desired. There are too many students! We have parents who tailor a child's lifestyle to their individual needs. Teachers and schools are not there to parent a child; they are there to provide a service to society: provide, as much as possible, an education to all children. 2+2=4 no matter what a child thinks it should equal, no matter what a child wants it to equal, no matter how a child feels about it. It is an objective fact. Public school is there to teach objective facts, not subjective desires and preferences.

As for paying a child a salary to attend school based on their grades, no. They are not performing a service for anyone yet. They are receiving a service. Would you take your car in for an oil change and expect the business to pay you? It's the same thing: you are not providing a service, so you do not get paid like you are. You are receiving a service, and you have to pay for that which you receive. At least in the case of public education, that service is free of charge. Not to mention, that very concept negates economics absolutely, and beginner economics is one of those classes we desperately need to bring back.

I do, however, support a national scholarship program wherein a child's GPA at graduation allows them to receive a free ride at the accredited college of their choice, either a 2-, 4-, 6-, or even 8-year degree (Phd) based on their GPA position in their graduating class. All subject to provisions, of course... the student must maintain a certain GPA throughout college, the student must choose a degree program which will lead to good job prospects (STEM degrees, mainly), and the student must maintain attendance and not engage in criminal activity. That would provide incentive as well as instill a habit of self-reliance in students at a lower cost than simply paying someone to sit in class looking bored.

TheRedneck

Socratic method. Acton academies. Too long to describe in depth but core value is that each child has a genius they can use to change the world. Answers are never provided but students guided to discover them for themselves. Many children begin doing apprenticeships outside school by age 12. Appears to be working wonderfully. If you have children or an interest in education this is as good an investment of 2 hours as anything.

a reply to: DigitalStoic

I enjoyed reading your perspective and you brought up ideas and concerns in a way I haven't thought of yet, I'm going to take notes and see what I'm missing. I have a 20 page draft of educational philosophy I've been adding to and refining as I learn more on what's wrong with our education how we learn and the types of knowledge being used. I wrote it up on google docs, I haven't tried to really share it yet. does it have a public view share? I haven't got to the buildings used for teaching section in my draft yet just an orphanage. I have the same thoughts as you was just trying to figure out how to write up a fusion of modern classrooms and nature. also with a tailor made education the traditional classroom may not even be the same. Education needs a common goal!

Thank you for your insight!

a reply to: Asktheanimals

Oh? Thank you I'm going to give it a watch I like how you summarized it. Color me Intrigued! I'm not sure if it's cool or not to like Philosophy but its fun to figure out problems by figuring out the how and the why.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
In any experiment, failure to produce a certain desired outcome means one needs to revert to the stable parameters previously known and make all changes from there. Success, even a partial success, means one may keep the new parameters and try for increased success.

Public education policy changes are always an experiment. The desired outcome should be improved ability of graduating students to not just hold a job, but to succeed at whatever career path they choose. That worked to a large degree at one time, when I was attending public school; since then, public school failures have been on the rise. That means each policy change during that time period has been an experimental failure. However, we did not return to established parameters after such failures, so we do not know what the result of each experiment since then actually is. We only know what the combined effects of those experiments are: continued failure.

Consider this: You have a car which runs rough and you want to make it run smoother. You're not sure why it is running rough, though. So you think "Maybe if I adjust the carburetor"... but that doesn't work. Now it runs rougher than before. Instead of setting the carburetor back to how it was, you leave it alone and advance the spark. Oops, running even rougher! Well, maybe the spark plug wires need to be switched over. Nope, no good, that just made it worse.

Perhaps it turns out that all the car needed was better gas and a new gas filter. But now, even when you put fresh gas and a new filter in, the spark plug wires are crossed, the timing is off, the carburetor isn't set properly... and the car is still running rougher than before! All because you never reverted to a previously stable condition! The chances of actually making the car run better have dropped to almost zero.

Here's a partial list of policy changes that have occurred since I was in public schools:

• The decline of corporal punishment.
  
• The use of Ritalin (and other psychoactive drugs) to control unruly students.
  
• Law enforcement overused to exercise control.
  
• Gun-free zones.
  
• Younger and younger sex-ed classes.
  
• Birth control administered to students for the asking.
  
• The removal of any hint of religious tolerance.
  
• The removal of the "Pledge of Allegiance."
  
• The zero-tolerance policy against "bullies" (which in my experience means that the actual bullies are protected while those being bullied are accused of bullying and suspended or expelled).
  
• The removal of "You want to fight? Here, put on these boxing gloves and you can fight." That sounds barbaric, I know, but I have personally seen those matches turn into a lifelong friendship on more than one occasion.
  
• The forced acceptance of "political correctness."
  
• Revised history.
  
• Standardized national testing.
  
• Reluctance to hold a student back a grade when they do not learn.
  
• "No Child Left Behind" (aka "No Child Moves Ahead").
  
• Tenured teachers.
  
• Teachers with political agendas.
  
• Attempts to turn a school into a maximum-security prison.
  
• Indifference to parents.
  
• Critical Race Theory.
  
• Sexualization of children.
  
• Drag shows.
  
• Incompetent teachers.
  
• Remote learning.
  
• "Social" homework instead of academic homework.
  
• Removal of classes on civics, handwriting, etc.
  
• "Common Core," a principle that was designed to allow teachers to tailor to individual students, but has instead been used to force every student to fail in one way or another.
  
• Participation trophies.

And that's only a partial list. I was still coming up with changed policy experiments, but I simply got tired of typing.

Anyone can come up with any idea on a new education system, but the simple truth is that we do not need a new education system... we need our old education system back so we can try to actually improve on it. A concern has been raised that technology is much more complex and the numbers are higher than they were before... fine. Those may be valid concerns to be addressed. But we will never know, because we must have that base line to compare to.

I'll also point out a couple of unworkable sections: It is simply not possible to tailor each student's education to the degree that appears to be desired. There are too many students! We have parents who tailor a child's lifestyle to their individual needs. Teachers and schools are not there to parent a child; they are there to provide a service to society: provide, as much as possible, an education to all children. 2+2=4 no matter what a child thinks it should equal, no matter what a child wants it to equal, no matter how a child feels about it. It is an objective fact. Public school is there to teach objective facts, not subjective desires and preferences.

As for paying a child a salary to attend school based on their grades, no. They are not performing a service for anyone yet. They are receiving a service. Would you take your car in for an oil change and expect the business to pay you? It's the same thing: you are not providing a service, so you do not get paid like you are. You are receiving a service, and you have to pay for that which you receive. At least in the case of public education, that service is free of charge. Not to mention, that very concept negates economics absolutely, and beginner economics is one of those classes we desperately need to bring back.

I do, however, support a national scholarship program wherein a child's GPA at graduation allows them to receive a free ride at the accredited college of their choice, either a 2-, 4-, 6-, or even 8-year degree (Phd) based on their GPA position in their graduating class. All subject to provisions, of course... the student must maintain a certain GPA throughout college, the student must choose a degree program which will lead to good job prospects (STEM degrees, mainly), and the student must maintain attendance and not engage in criminal activity. That would provide incentive as well as instill a habit of self-reliance in students at a lower cost than simply paying someone to sit in class looking bored.

TheRedneck

This is very good feed back. I guess I can say what I'm writing isn't really reinventing school. its trying to go back to concepts that work and to fuse those concepts with concepts from other cultures to adapt or accommodate the amount of students with the help of technology and the ability to learn at ones own pace the hope is as the child grows and learns self discipline and curiosity in a field they are suited for they can self teach with periodic meetings with the teacher or specialist helping them to direct their own self teaching methods more efficiently on the path of whatever job they choose their good at. Might might be seeing it wrong but there is a clear lack of emotional intelligence in school and the only way we get that for the most part is our environment, religion, spirituality or self taught. I need to reword the part about the tailored experience. my intent was not to portray the plan as coddling or babysitting I meant based off their natural strengths and weaknesses when they got to a level to chose a job as well as a backup. Coddling is for parents and family. I really appreciate your feedback, very insightful. I have a lot to think on with your perspective.

a reply to: nugget1

According to Gatto, it's Carnegie, Rockefeller, and other capitalists who formed U.S. public school education.

a reply to: Aleksander

The idea of self-teaching has merit, but that merit is confined to a very small range. Most children, given the opportunity to "goof off," will indeed "goof off." There's a couple of reasons for this: firstly, most children don't know what they want to do at an early age. Secondly, the area of the brain devoted to long-term planning and consequences does not fully mature until age 25. That's why auto insurance rates for young drivers drop in cost so dramatically at age 25; the insurance companies knew this before science did.

Only once a child realizes that a particular field interests them will that child show any interest in self-learning at all, and then will be easily distracted and tend to ignore the harder parts.

Let me use myself as an example. I am a fairly accomplished electrical engineer. But it wasn't until I was 14 years old that I even gave electricity a second glance. You see, I tried to talk my folks into getting me a motorcycle when I was 12 or so... something my father was dead set against. So instead of a motorcycle, he offered to get me a car! What 12-year-old turns down that deal? It wound up being an old 1967 VW Beetle. I was responsible for fixing anything wrong with it and maintaining it, and I could drive it around our farm until I was legal for the roads.

Turns out on a 1967 VW Beetle, the 4-way flashers work through something called an "electronic relay center." Mine was bad and while I was too young to really care that much about 4-way flashers, I wanted them to work out of simple pride in my car. So I tried to save enough money to buy a new one. No luck... they were just too expensive for a kid making money hauling hay and mowing yards. So one day, in desperation, I broke the bakelite case open to see if I could fix it. Inside were all these weird little things with 2 or 3 leads sticking out and connecting to a circuit board. I had no earthly idea what I was looking at; all I knew was if you run a hot wire to a light, it comes on.

Then one day I was in Radio Shack with my Dad and I saw some of those weird little things in the small parts section. I asked what they did and the answer made no sense to me. So I started reading some of the books every time I was there. Dad saw it and that Christmas I got my first electronic 150-in-one electronic kit. I have been an avid fan of electronics ever since.

I also had one teacher about that time, Ms. Blevins, who was able to explain mathematics to me in such a way I actually enjoyed learning it. So the more mathematical electronics became, the more I enjoyed it. It was later in life before I was able to actually get a degree, but I still have 40+ years experience learning, creating, and enjoying electronics.

Now, consider if I hadn't been introduced to electronics at an early age. Imagine if I had grown up hating mathematics like so many do. In either case, I would not be who I am today.

The reason we regiment our children's education is so they have the ability to see a wider range of what their possibilities are. Not everyone is cut out to be an engineer... some prefer law, some prefer medical, some prefer the trades, some prefer purely academic pursuits. A child is not born knowing what careers are available; they have to discover them through education. In order to get them to discover what is available to them, there must be a regiment... otherwise all children will sit and play video games instead of exploring the real word around them. In that regimented process, we also teach them the things that every child should know. Everyone should know some mathematics, some basic science, history, how the law works, and how to read and write. Everyone, no matter what they do with their adult life.

Those check cashing places, for instance... they typically charge an APR, when all is said and done, of thousands of percent per annum. Yet, they are everywhere around here, frequented by those who do not understand the very basics of how interest works and thus allow themselves to be kept in poverty through their own ignorance. There may be times when one needs those services, but those times are very rare... and by not teaching our children why they are literally playing loan shark, we allow our children to spend a lifetime in poverty and servitude.

Why? So we can teach them about using the correct pronouns? Why Billy has two mommies?

I will also point out another thing about my own life experience. As I said, I got my degree late in life. When I went back to college, I already had decades of personal learning under my belt. Yet, I was sorely under-educated in some areas and over-educated in others. I graduated understanding many things I had been totally oblivious about before college, despite all those years of self-teaching. That's another thing that needs to be considered: self-teaching is great when it happens, but without some sort of regiment it also becomes a trap. One will typically not study a specific subject until one has a need to know that subject, and that means one will develop what I refer to as "holes in their knowledge." Had I not gone back to college and subjected myself to that regiment, my knowledge today would still look like Swiss cheese.

Again, we know what has worked in the past. There is no reason to suspect that it will not work again. Even if it proves inadequate for today's more advanced body of knowledge, only by reverting to what has worked in the past can we address specific issues one at a time to counter any such issues. Otherwise, we're shooting in the dark at a moving target.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Aleksander

Nice thread!

Plenty of great points so far, the YouTube link Asktheanimals posted is kind of where my mind has been for years on the issue.

These days? We'd still have education systems if we got rid of youth education. Let's just teach for emotional intelligence and social cohesion till around the ages of 10 (no set age) and gradually introduce them into a world of educated understanding. I don't want to get intellectual on what that looks like I'm merely describing the basic perimeters of where we should operate on the things we should be trying to achieve. Which in my mind is robust little humans capable of taking on the world as if it's a challenge and not a hindrance.

On a personal note when it comes to education it was always the older generations that actually slipped through. It's the elder mechanic who couldn't read or write, the qualifications are a necessity these days.