It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by akilles
Let's not lose sight of whats important here folks.
Let us suppose that every Lodge wanted to make sure they have the EXACT right ritual, and oaths. I mean, its no skin off the Lodge's nose to correct a few words, right?
So they call the Grand Lodge of that State, and co-ordinate. The Grand Lodge (of each state), in turn, has compared their ritual and oaths with each other, to make sure it is all the same, accomplished by designating one Lodge for the other Grand Lodge's to call.
I presume in a period of 6-8 weeks all Masonic ritual and oaths in regular Masonry would be standardized.
So yeah, I do have to say, I don't believe the Oaths vary AT ALL, and even if they did, individual Masons would not KNOW for sure (as I'm sure they will point out, neither can I know for sure, which is why I have dedicated my life to becoming a Master Speculator, most things in life cannot be KNOWN for sure), because they have only taken and witnessed their own Lodge's rituals and oaths.
Originally posted by akilles
Let us suppose that every Lodge wanted to make sure they have the EXACT right ritual, and oaths. I mean, its no skin off the Lodge's nose to correct a few words, right?
So they call the Grand Lodge of that State, and co-ordinate. The Grand Lodge (of each state), in turn, has compared their ritual and oaths with each other, to make sure it is all the same, accomplished by designating one Lodge for the other Grand Lodge's to call.
I presume in a period of 6-8 weeks all Masonic ritual and oaths in regular Masonry would be standardized.
So yeah, I do have to say, I don't believe the Oaths vary AT ALL, and even if they did, individual Masons would not KNOW for sure (as I'm sure they will point out, neither can I know for sure, which is why I have dedicated my life to becoming a Master Speculator, most things in life cannot be KNOWN for sure), because they have only taken and witnessed their own Lodge's rituals and oaths.
Originally posted by intrepid
Just a matter of getting a response to Sebatwerks challenge. I don't want it being said that I didn't allow driver to answer.
Originally posted by akilles
So how about this, when the Lodge goes to renew its License (and pay its dues, which happens every year, right?) it is sent the official copy of the rituals and oaths.
No one has to re-learn anything, except those who are conducting the ritual, and because the changes are slight, you allow a time period for the changes to be fully made, or maybe even keep a sheet of paper on hand during the ritual
That way, all future members will have taken the same rituals and oaths, saving Freemasonry a SH*tload on printing costs, as only one version has to be copied. Everyone wins, good business sense, no?
Secondly, Freemasonry should develop a standardized book of symbolism, and ritual meaning, that can be used by all lodges, and referenced by Masons and non-Masons alike.
Originally posted by SameOldTroll
that wouldnt work. by having different lodges and variablity they can not only seperate themsleves, but combine itno different cultures while presenting a unified front.
Originally posted by akilles
I have never, in my history here NIT-PICKED a post, but because some Masons does it every time (NEVER answering a post in full, always line by line, a technique that is not needed EVERY time) but there is a first for everything. Please bear with me.
You said it is unlikely your Grand Lodge has the authority to issue the ritual 'proper'. Why?
"every world Grand Lodge"
What is meant by World Grand Lodge, I was not aware there was such a thing, never mind multiple. I'll let it go as a slip.
"there's NO WAY" that a ritual 'proper' could be agreed upon? Where there's a will there's way has always been my belief. Has an effort even been made?
"The changes would not be slight"
Every Mason here has described the different rituals as containing the same essence, with differences being superficial, to say the least.
"It's none of anyone's business except masons."
But what of contributing to society, the teachings that Masonry has to offer. Surely, its symbols and the meaning behind the rituals can be shared with all who are interested (in reference to "standardized book of symbolism, and ritual meaning, that can be used by all lodges").
Lastly, you describe assistance in transitioning to standardized ritual as "(some thing) that is cursed or damned."
Am I to take this as your implied meaning (in reference to "keeping a crib sheet handy would be an anathema"), because interestingly, the word derives from latin for "doomed offering", and certainly offerings have no correlation to the working of the rituals of the Brotherhood, correct?
And please, for all people who are open-minded, don't assume you know that someone is just waiting to debase your good name (or your fraternity), you might be surprised. I only push Masonry to see if more could be asked of it.
Originally posted by Trinityman
Originally posted by SameOldTroll
that wouldnt work. by having different lodges and variablity they can not only seperate themsleves, but combine itno different cultures while presenting a unified front.
You mean like it is right now? Just like akilles it seems that you are labouring under the false impression that freemasonry is managed and controlled globally, where as in reality there are hundreds of regular Grand Lodges who have relations with each other but that's about it.
Originally posted by NuTroll
U misunderstood me. from what i can gander the entire point is that the Lodges are not Globally controlled but United by an Ideal, giving them their flexibility while maintaining a solid connection.
Someone else said above me (sebatwerk?) that any MM can witness any degree being conferred in any lodge anywhere. That means they recognize each other. However they also agree that they are differently done, thats the flexible part of it. They are united by their ideals , which im assuming are relatively standardized even if the rituals are different. (cousins instead of brothers).
Does this create a global buddy network. sure it does.
Originally posted by akilles
So how about this, when the Lodge goes to renew its License (and pay its dues, which happens every year, right?) it is sent the official copy of the rituals and oaths.
That way, all future members will have taken the same rituals and oaths, saving Freemasonry a SH*tload on printing costs, as only one version has to be copied. Everyone wins, good business sense, no?
Secondly, Freemasonry should develop a standardized book of symbolism, and ritual meaning, that can be used by all lodges, and referenced by Masons and non-Masons alike.
Originally posted by Driver
why are so many of you so addiment to tell us all about Freemasonry?
My stance of Freemasonry is that the bulk of the members are in ignorance while the higer parts are involed in the global conspiracy.
senrak
We ARE human after all...
akilles
I presume in a period of 6-8 weeks all Masonic ritual and oaths in regular Masonry would be standardized
Originally posted by Nygdan
I mean, and perhaps the masons can explain, is it understood by an inductee and everyone else that no throats are going to be slit and there's not going to be any strangulation for revealing secrets?
Originally posted by sebatwerk
Originally posted by intrepid
Just a matter of getting a response to Sebatwerks challenge. I don't want it being said that I didn't allow driver to answer.
He's not going to reply, Intrepid. You can give it all the time you want, but he's going to ignore this thread because he knows he doesn't have a damn thing to contribute now that he's got his back against a wall.