Did we get this wrong from the start? (Definition of Satan)

I personally think that we don't know Satan or God's real names, we couldn't pronounce them if we did. This way of looking at the Devil is similar to how people use the word anti-Christ to describe the singular end time Anti-Christ figure (actually the beast) as well as anyone else (plural) who is against Christ and his teachings. Semantics, word play.

I'd say what you describe is the spirit of Satan, the unholy spirit so to speak, the influence of sin that the devil is the greatest example of.

a reply to: Gothmog

Go back and read your quoted Biblical text again .
Your perception of the subject is off track .

Is the king of Tyre prophecy in Ezekiel 28 referring to Satan?
Last 2 paragraphs

The only problem is that Got Questions doesn't address the fact that Ezekiel 28:2 mentions the "prince of Tyrus" with one description of a man and then verse 12 changes to "king of Tyrus" with a different description of an angel. I'm convinced that the difference in references is addressing the man first and then the influence the king or "cherub" angel had over the prince.

a reply to: FingerMan

Satan is a spiritual entity who not only led man astray, but other spiritual entities (angels) astray as well. They were once a part of heaven, but they rebelled against God and were cast down to earth and will eventually be thrown into the Lake of Fire. The Bible tells us that Satan led a third of God's angels astray along with man.

Revelation 12:7 - 9

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

a reply to: 19Bones79

How heavenly was heaven if it could make a being feel discontent being around all he ever needed? A being supposedly more intelligent than ourselves.

Angels and man were all given free will; ultimately to prove than none of us ARE/OR capable of becoming GOD, but have to choose to love and follow God to reach our maximum potential that God planned for us.

a reply to: 19Bones79

Why would the majority of beings that have experienced heaven think it sucks to the point where anything but here would be a better option for them?

That means heaven and the presence of God has a negative track record when it comes to the feelings it inspires which bothers me if it is the be all and end all.

By all 'accounts' being around the Almighty is such an overwhelming feeling of fulfillment and peace and love and yet here we have a track record that shows a nett negative rating.

Once again, such is free will. Much like humans, when angels get greedy and thirst for power, adoration, and worship, they make poor decisions and deny the reality of the consequences. It has a power of its own like a drug addiction.

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: 19Bones79

How heavenly was heaven if it could make a being feel discontent being around all he ever needed? A being supposedly more intelligent than ourselves.

Angels and man were all given free will; ultimately to prove than none of us ARE/OR capable of becoming GOD, but have to choose to love and follow God to reach our maximum potential that God planned for us.

That's just a silly premise in my opinion.

Who would be stupid enough to think they could create a universe in six days?


On a side note, can your God create a rock so heavy that he is unable to lift it?

originally posted by: 19Bones79
a reply to: AOx6179

This reply raises a lot of questions, but I'll try to keep it concise.

So God. The creator of all. Including the devil. It appears the devil might have been around even before Jesus and was maybe in line for some throneship type situation.

I dont think it would have been a throne in heaven. ive kinda come to a conclusion that the devil may have been in line to rule this world, but failed. (remember im speaking in theory)

do you have children? if so, has your child ever done something so "bad" that you are furious with them to the point that you cant even look at your kid? you love them still, even tho you are angry and needed to be punished them. ill say it like this: i love my son VERY much, but if he came and murdered you......id want him to be punished accordingly.

In your scenario questions: i would use my training ti gauge situation. if needed i would start blasting and protect my loved ones, and even my own well-being. we all have that right.
Theres a monumental difference between murdererous rampage and self defense.


btw youre asking good questions. i just hope youre reason is just.
ps. i do not feel it is "blasphemous" to ask questions about something that i was told i wouldnt fully understand is noble and wise. God knows this and isnt as get my feelz hurt as we are. He understands like a parent understands what their child is going thru. even if the child cant see it...
take with a grain of salt

A throne? For whom to pledge allegiance to?

Isn't that blasphemous to suggest another would have a throne in heaven?

Anyways he was what a second in command would be. Beelzebub became proud. Thought he could overthrow God.

How? He had none of his deity's powers.

If he is more intelligent than I am, how did he plan to fart against the wind?

On the sixth day after God had created adam and eve he apparently wasn't quite fully finished creating so he told Adam and Eve he was going to finish his work and come see em when he got back.

Then either he isn't all-knowing and all-present or he is but he pretended not to be.

His 2nd-in-command would know this because even the greenest of his flock knows this.

Kind of spoils the continuity of the storyline for me.

thru making a deal with the creature guarding the entrance to the garden.

Freakin' lowly gate guards.

Whatchagonnadoo?

Good help is still hard to find these days.

God had put his trust in his right hand man and the devil hated us (he coveted us so bad. Jealous of infants because God loved us so much.

He experienced God's love by being in his presence which according to believers is the ultimate experience there can ever be. How would he perceive there to be levels of love and that the love God showed him to be inferior.

That suggests to me being in God's presence (radiation) wasn't that spectacular for him which enabled him to experience feelings of jealousy.

Why would you be jealous of humans when you are his favorite in heaven, the ultimate place to be?


Let me put a scenario forward:

You're in your house with wife, children and unborn baby.

Everything is perfect.


An unarmed gang of would be rapists and murderers approach your property with the intention doing the unthinkable.

You on the other hand, are armed to the teeth, know exactly where they are via cctv and that they plan to invade your home.


A) Do you sit back and catch an episode of Dress My Nest, c'est la vie?


B) Do you go on a murderous rampage risking your life without 2nd thought for everything that you love?

originally posted by: trombleforth
a reply to: FingerMan

I'm wondering if this is a known metaphor in Judaism, or in older forms of religion. And maybe when hijacked by pagan religions/Catholicism, the metaphor became a Darth Vader figure.

if you're interested in following pre-christian antecedants, then I strongly encourage you to read up on Zoroastrianism .

I see folks bandy the term Manichaeism about a lot these days, but my take on this is that the Duality expressed in Manichaeism is largely derived from the theology of Zoroastrianism.

I could be mis-stating some of these following high-lights (in that it's been quite a while since I read up on Zoroastrianism), but Zoroastrianism:
+ ancient Persian religion, linguistically (Avestan) as old as the Vedas of India (ie; possibly predating 1200BC), but age is uncertain.
+ (first?) religion to explicitly describe the battle between Good vs Evil, Light vs Dark.
+ Fire-"worshippers" (light = good), (I'd guess it more likely that they are worshipping the God of Light through Fire (like Catholics and candles), and the term "fire-worshipper" is a derogatory exonym.)
+ original source of Angels (minions/legions of God), supposedly absorbed by Hebrews during the Babylonian captivity.
+ the Magi that came to visit new-born Jesus: Magi are priests of Zoroastrianism.
+ Zoroastrianism was once the religion of almost all of Persia/Iran, but was largely supplanted by (Shia) Islam. Pockets of Zoroastrian fire-worship remain in Iran, and the Parsis of India (Parsi = Farsi = Persian).

The Magi, where the word Magic and Magician come from, were led by Daniel during his lifetime. My take on why they were able to ascertain the birth of the Christ is they were educated in prophecy by Daniel.
The Magi were experts of known science of the times. Alchemy was the precursor to modern Chemistry.

Not sure Zoroastrianism had too much to do with the Magi visiting Jesus. That was Daniel.

originally posted by: whereislogic
As you already indicated, it's not exactly a new idea...

The Apostle Peter, A Loyal Follower of Jesus | True Faith

...

... Jesus continued to reveal vital truths about the Messiah, including the certainty of his own impending suffering and death at Jerusalem. Peter was disturbed to hear such things. He took Jesus aside and rebuked him, saying: “Be kind to yourself, Lord; you will not have this destiny at all.”​—Matt. 16:21, 22.

Peter surely meant well, so Jesus’ reply must have come as a surprise. He turned his back on Peter, looked at the rest of the disciples​—who had likely been thinking something similar—​and said: “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me, because you think, not God’s thoughts, but those of men.” (Matt. 16:23; Mark 8:32, 33) Jesus’ words contain practical counsel for us all. It is only too easy to allow human thinking to take priority over godly thinking. If we do so, even when we mean to help, we may inadvertently become proponents of Satan’s purpose rather than God’s. How, though, did Peter respond?

Peter must have realized that Jesus was not calling him Satan the Devil in any literal sense. After all, Jesus did not speak to Peter as he had to Satan. To Satan, Jesus had said: “Go away”; to Peter, he said: “Get behind me.” (Matt. 4:10) Jesus did not cast off this apostle in whom he saw a great deal of good, but he simply corrected Peter’s wrong thinking in this matter. It is not hard to see that Peter needed to stop getting in front of his Master as a stumbling block and needed to get back behind him as a supportive follower.

...

... The dirge recorded at Ezekiel 28:12-19, though directed to the human “king of Tyre,” evidently draws upon or parallels the course taken by the spirit son of God who first sinned. The pride of the “king of Tyre,” his making himself ‘a god,’ his being called a “cherub,” and the reference to “Eden, the garden of God,” certainly correspond to Biblical information concerning Satan the Devil, who became puffed up with pride, is linked to the serpent in Eden, and is called “the god of this system of things.”—1 Tim. 3:6; Gen. 3:1-5, 14, 15; Rev. 12:9; 2 Cor. 4:4.

...

Source: Perfection (Aid to Bible Understanding)

That is however not a reason to think Satan is not a person/individual. Since that would not be consistent with the rest of Scripture (see video).

Thanks for the video. Yep. So Jesus was speaking to both Peter and Satan.

I didn't go digging deep into texts as I don't like to waste time looking in the wrong places for information. Hence this thread. I think this video pretty much answered my question, and Satan is a real being.

Thanks.

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Gothmog

Go back and read your quoted Biblical text again .
Your perception of the subject is off track .

Is the king of Tyre prophecy in Ezekiel 28 referring to Satan?
Last 2 paragraphs

The only problem is that Got Questions doesn't address the fact that Ezekiel 28:2 mentions the "prince of Tyrus" with one description of a man and then verse 12 changes to "king of Tyrus" with a different description of an angel. I'm convinced that the difference in references is addressing the man first and then the influence the king or "cherub" angel had over the prince.

Great point!

a reply to: whereislogic

That is however not a reason to think Satan is not a person/individual. Since that would not be consistent with the rest of Scripture (see video).

Your video isn't consistent with scripture. Its argument at 1:57 "that there is absolutely no evil in God or his son" rejects scripture in Gospel of Mark and Luke in which Jesus states ... "No one is good but God alone".

a reply to: FingerMan

These demonic spirits, what are their origin? What is their purpose? Why have they been judged? What did they do wrong?

Sometime in between Adam and Eve and Noah, I'm thinking very close to the beginning of mankind (remember, people lived to be about a thousand years old. Adam was 983 (something like that) when he died. As mankind (us) was beginning some angels who were supposed to be "watchers" and sort of just observing us, but not interfering, Some of these angles started to see how beautiful the women were and started to, not only have sex with them but also seemed like they fell in love with some of the women they were "watching."So they made a pact. 200 of them to be exact. Two hundred Watcher angels made a pact that if one slept "took one of the women for themselves" the others would too. Rebel. They were like---bet. So they did. The women started to have babies. Half angel from dada and half human from momma. Now, and here's why I think it was about more than just sex, but that actually fell in love with women, they started to teach the women how to use herbs and roots (ie witchcraft, as we so callously call it), read the stars, the secrets of the creation itself, mirrors, how to make weapons of war (how to forge metal [and probably even alchemy]). I could go on there because what these angels did, not only did they produce nephilim (the babies) but they super advanced mankind (this is where we get our super advanced civilization during early man theories and evidence). So much so that the nephilim grew to be giants, and killing off every human man (that didn't worship them) because these human dudes were just in the way and a half angel has some serious power (especially the first generation. Some of the men followed/worshipped/ were slaves to the nephilim. So they became seriously corruptted as well.
Noah and his family were supernaturally helped (hidden from the nephilim) and we all know the rest there.
It was not man that God had to wipe out. It was the advancement of things, the knowledge of things "extra" that weren't supposed to be a part of us and to kill off the nephilim. So that's why the flood...

To handle the nephilim (first gen I bet, maybe further) he cloaked them in darkness, covered them in "rock" and gave them "hideous figures." They have the power to transform (at least for a time it seems) into whatever they want I think, but definitely people. They can take any form I believe. But they are what we know as "demons" now. (Remember these are just words we've given things we do not understand). And are what cause major things (catastrophes, illnesses/they can cause you to trip just cause) like they could be what's behind TPTB type thing, is one theory.

To handle the 200 angels that made the pact an took the women as wives, had baby's with them and taught them all matter of things we were not supposed to be taught, he threw them in the deepest depths of hell. Bound waiting for their judgement.
You can thank them for war. Among so much more.


I think that should cover the question.
All from Enoch. I summarized it for you.

And correct to the one who called it. The devil wasn't a part of any of that ☝️

a reply to: glend
That text does not mean that there is evil in Jesus, nor is it evidence for that. If that was what was meant, that is what it would have said. It says something different though, which is also not to be misunderstood (in another way, that Jesus is not good at all, not even a little bit). Note the response concerning that text after 0:30 below for the correct understanding that is consistent with the rest of Scripture:

The Bible describes Jesus as being “without sin” and “separated from the sinners.” Throughout his life, Jesus perfectly obeyed God’s Law. (Hebrews 4:15; 7:26)

“For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tested in all respects as we have, but without sin.” (Heb 4:15)

“For it is fitting for us to have such a high priest who is loyal, innocent, undefiled, separated from the sinners, and exalted above the heavens.” (Heb 7:26)

Some persons feel that “the Devil” is just a carry-over from an old superstition or myth. Others think that when the Bible mentions “Satan” it is referring simply to a principle of evil.

However, Matthew 4:1-11 tells us of a time when Satan offered three very specific temptations to Jesus. Certainly, the Satan here referred to was no evil principle within Jesus, for the Son of God is free of evil and sin. (Hebrews 7:26; 1:8, 9) No, Satan is a real person. This is also borne out by the account at Job 1:6-12, which tells of Satan’s appearing before Jehovah.

Source: ARE THERE EVIL PERSONS IN THE SPIRIT REALM? (Happiness—How to Find It)

“He committed no sin, nor was deception found in his mouth.” (1 Peter 2:22)

“And he was given a burial place with the wicked,
And with the rich in his death,
Although he had done no wrong* [“he did no evil”, Aramaic Bible in Plain English]
And there was no deception in his mouth.” (Isaiah 53:9)

When Sin Is No More

“ARE we born in sin?” That question perplexed a graduate student in the United States soon after he started studying the Bible. Because of his Hindu background, the idea of inherited sin was foreign to him. But if sin is indeed inherited, he reasoned, denying or ignoring its reality would be useless. How could one find the answer to this question?

If inherited, sin must have had a starting point. Was the first man created wicked, so that he passed on evil traits to his children? Or did the defect develop later? Exactly when did sin begin? On the other hand, if sin is only an external, evil entity or principle, can we ever hope to gain freedom from it?

According to Hindu belief, suffering and evil are concomitants to creation. “Suffering [or evil],” notes a Hindu scholar, “like chronic rheumatism, only moves from one place to another but cannot be totally eradicated.” Evil certainly has been a part of the world of mankind throughout recorded history. If it predates man’s historical records, reliable answers about its origin must of necessity come from a source higher than man. The answers must come from God.—Psalm 36:9.

Man—Created Without Sin

Descriptions of the creation of man given in the Vedas are figurative, admits Hindu philosopher Nikhilananda. Similarly, most Eastern religions provide only mythological explanations of creation. Yet, there are both logical and scientific reasons for believing the Bible account of the creation of the first man.* Its very first chapter states: “God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them.”—Genesis 1:27. [*: See the book Life—How Did It Get Here? By Evolution or by Creation?, published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc.]

What does it mean to be created “in God’s image”? Simply this: Man was made in the likeness of God, having godly attributes—such as justice, wisdom, and love—that set him apart from animals. (Compare Colossians 3:9, 10.) These qualities gave him the ability to choose to do good or bad, making him a free moral agent. There was no sin in the first man, no evil or suffering in his life, when he was created.

Upon the man Adam, Jehovah God placed this command: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.” (Genesis 2:16, 17) By choosing to obey, Adam and his wife, Eve, could bring praise and honor to their Creator and remain free of sin. On the other hand, an act of disobedience would indicate their failure to meet God’s perfect standards and would make them imperfect—sinful.

Adam and Eve were not created divine. However, they did have a measure of divine attributes and the capacity to make moral decisions. Being God’s creation, they were sinless, or perfect. (Genesis 1:31; Deuteronomy 32:4) Their being brought into existence did not disrupt the harmony that had prevailed between God and the universe for ages until then. How, then, did sin begin?

...

LESSON 4: Who Is Jesus Christ? (Good News From God!)

...

3. Why do we need a ransom?

A ransom is the price paid to release a person from the threat of death. (Exodus 21:29, 30) Death and old age were not part of God’s original purpose for mankind. How do we know that? God told the first man, Adam, that if he committed what the Bible calls “sin,” he would die. So if Adam had not sinned, he would never have died. (Genesis 2:16, 17; 5:5) According to the Bible, death “entered” the world of mankind through Adam. Thus, Adam passed on to all his descendants sin and its penalty, death. We need a ransom to release us from the penalty of death that we inherited from Adam.​—Read Romans 5:12; 6:23.

Who could pay the ransom to free us from death? When we die, we pay the penalty only for our own sins. No imperfect man can pay for the sins of others.​—Read Psalm 49:7-9.

4. Why did Jesus die?

Unlike us, Jesus was perfect. So he did not need to die for his sins​—he never committed any. Instead, Jesus died for the sins of others. God expressed extraordinary love for mankind by sending his Son to die for us. Jesus also showed love for us by obeying his Father and giving his life for our sins.​—Read John 3:16; Romans 5:18, 19.

...

Is God Always Superior to Jesus? (Should You Believe in the Trinity?)

JESUS never claimed to be God. Everything he said about himself indicates that he did not consider himself equal to God in any way—not in power, not in knowledge, not in age.

In every period of his existence, whether in heaven or on earth, his speech and conduct reflect subordination to God. God is always the superior, Jesus the lesser one who was created by God.

Jesus Distinguished From God

TIME and again, Jesus showed that he was a creature separate from God and that he, Jesus, had a God above him, a God whom he worshiped, a God whom he called “Father.” In prayer to God, that is, the Father, Jesus said, “You, the only true God.” (John 17:3) At John 20:17 he said to Mary Magdalene: “I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.” (RS, Catholic edition) At 2 Corinthians 1:3 the apostle Paul confirms this relationship: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Since Jesus had a God, his Father, he could not at the same time be that God.

The apostle Paul had no reservations about speaking of Jesus and God as distinctly separate: “For us there is one God, the Father, . . . and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ.” (1 Corinthians 8:6, JB) The apostle shows the distinction when he mentions “the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of the elect angels.” (1 Timothy 5:21, RS Common Bible) Just as Paul speaks of Jesus and the angels as being distinct from one another in heaven, so too are Jesus and God.

Jesus’ words at John 8:17, 18 are also significant. He states: “In your own Law it is written, ‘The witness of two men is true.’ I am one that bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me.” Here Jesus shows that he and the Father, that is, Almighty God, must be two distinct entities, for how else could there truly be two witnesses?

Jesus further showed that he was a separate being from God by saying: “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.” (Mark 10:18, JB) So Jesus was saying that no one is as good as God is, not even Jesus himself. God is good in a way that separates him from Jesus. [whereislogic: the same point made in the video earlier]

God’s Submissive Servant

TIME and again, Jesus made statements such as: “The Son cannot do anything at his own pleasure, he can only do what he sees his Father doing.” (John 5:19, The Holy Bible, by Monsignor R. A. Knox) “I have come down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent me.” (John 6:38) “What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me.” (John 7:16) Is not the sender superior to the one sent?

...

The followers of Jesus always viewed him as a submissive servant of God, not as God’s equal. They prayed to God about “thy holy servant Jesus, whom thou didst anoint, . . . and signs and wonders are performed through the name of thy holy servant Jesus.”—Acts 4:23, 27, 30, RS, Catholic edition.

God Superior at All Times

...

a reply to: 19Bones79

Freakin' lowly gate guards

Guess what was guarding the entrance? A dragon. Aka, "the fall of the literal dragon. Satan made a deal with him. To take his form since no one but the dragon and Adam and Eve could just stroll through there. Satan had basically "possessed" the dragon and went inside and did his deception thing.
God catches what's happened and takes the dragons legs and wings and curses it to crawl on its belly.

So, vio la, snakes are what were once dragons.

💣

(That's not Enoch. You don't want to know where I had to go to find this tidbit)

a reply to: AOx6179

That's very interesting.

According to your account of events, an all-knowing God put a "gate-guard" that could be possessed with the snap of a finger to safeguard over his most important earthly creation?

Why?

And if it was that easy, meaning the dragon had ZERO chance, why punish him?

If I had to write up an incidence report on the event I would come to the conclusion that if God is truly all-knowing and he knew the dragon's weakness which the devil effortlessly exploited as God knew he would then adequate precautions were in fact knowingly not taken and therefore bad planning ultimately lead to the fall of man, innocent and unprepared as they were.

Ask any insurance company in lieu of these facts if they would pay out such a claim(if it were to be insured) and the answer would be a resounding NO.

I know you understand this, but would you agree therefore that the blame ultimately does not reside by Adam and Eve?

What was the point of having security measures that meant the devil could simply waltz in and cause the fall of man?

And to emphasize this point, after Adam and Eve was kicked out access control was exponentially beefed up by appointing Uriel, an angel with a fiery sword as the gate guard and he is described as "the angel who is over the world and is over Tartarus".

Which in itself is an admission of prior bad planning because in no instance that I know of has the garden of Eden been breached since.


What do you make of that?

originally posted by: 19Bones79

On a side note, can your God create a rock so heavy that he is unable to lift it?

It always makes me chuckle a bit when I get the impression someone is raising that cliché question because they feel it's clever (it's used a lot by people impressed by popular and highly admired atheist gurus or entertainment media celebrities, including those who write it into their programming/shows, for their perceived* and supposed cleverness in challenging theists on the topic of God's omnipotence; *: perceived as such by those easily impressed with such silly challenges, because it just happens to 'tickle their ears' as described at 2 Timothy 4:3,4, it makes them feel clever too for using it too). Cause it's not (clever), and then I have to think about this scene from Star Trek DS9 (the part about all this that makes me chuckle):

And then I'm reminded of this video (notice the cliché question at 0:42)

originally posted by: AOx6179
a reply to: FingerMan

These demonic spirits, what are their origin? What is their purpose? Why have they been judged? What did they do wrong?

Sometime in between Adam and Eve and Noah, I'm thinking very close to the beginning of mankind (remember, people lived to be about a thousand years old. Adam was 983 (something like that) when he died. As mankind (us) was beginning some angels who were supposed to be "watchers" and sort of just observing us, but not interfering, Some of these angles started to see how beautiful the women were and started to, not only have sex with them but also seemed like they fell in love with some of the women they were "watching."So they made a pact. 200 of them to be exact. Two hundred Watcher angels made a pact that if one slept "took one of the women for themselves" the others would too. Rebel. They were like---bet. So they did. The women started to have babies. Half angel from dada and half human from momma. Now, and here's why I think it was about more than just sex, but that actually fell in love with women, they started to teach the women how to use herbs and roots (ie witchcraft, as we so callously call it), read the stars, the secrets of the creation itself, mirrors, how to make weapons of war (how to forge metal [and probably even alchemy]). I could go on there because what these angels did, not only did they produce nephilim (the babies) but they super advanced mankind (this is where we get our super advanced civilization during early man theories and evidence). So much so that the nephilim grew to be giants, and killing off every human man (that didn't worship them) because these human dudes were just in the way and a half angel has some serious power (especially the first generation. Some of the men followed/worshipped/ were slaves to the nephilim. So they became seriously corruptted as well.
Noah and his family were supernaturally helped (hidden from the nephilim) and we all know the rest there.
It was not man that God had to wipe out. It was the advancement of things, the knowledge of things "extra" that weren't supposed to be a part of us and to kill off the nephilim. So that's why the flood...

To handle the nephilim (first gen I bet, maybe further) he cloaked them in darkness, covered them in "rock" and gave them "hideous figures." They have the power to transform (at least for a time it seems) into whatever they want I think, but definitely people. They can take any form I believe. But they are what we know as "demons" now. (Remember these are just words we've given things we do not understand). And are what cause major things (catastrophes, illnesses/they can cause you to trip just cause) like they could be what's behind TPTB type thing, is one theory.

To handle the 200 angels that made the pact an took the women as wives, had baby's with them and taught them all matter of things we were not supposed to be taught, he threw them in the deepest depths of hell. Bound waiting for their judgement.
You can thank them for war. Among so much more.


I think that should cover the question.
All from Enoch. I summarized it for you.

Been knowledgeable on The Book of Enoch for a couple decades now. And I'm not so sure, actually I'm pretty sure it is not even close to being inspired. The basic gist to my theory on this is as follows:
- Noah and his son's spread out over the land. They had no religion. They just knew God, and that God delivered them for the purpose of reseeding the land. The knowledge handed to them was from their father. Very little of it was passed accurately to the generations. And by the time you get to the tower of babel, everyone was creating gods and trying to figure out if this stone/rock/wood God would grant them favors. That all changed once some goodness morality and common sense was demonstrated by Abram. Then things changed for us, thanks to him.
- So as my above argument shows there was no passing of information from prediluvian to Jews thousands of years later, my next argument is akin to the printing press. Once the printing press was invented, people could read on their own. And the Catholic Church no longer held the chains of biblical interpretation. Similarly, written text was new in ancient times. And I believe the book of Enoch was the Israelite version of War of the Worlds. It was a fictional characterization of the past given to them via inspired revelation through Moses. The prediluvian story was given to the uneducated enslaved Israelites by Moses via divine inspiration. And if there were more details to be given, it would have been in the Torah.

a reply to: whereislogic

Well hello Chuckles.


Let's put the same question in easier to understand terms for you.

Do you and your God share the same morals?

Hint: it's a yes or no answer.

a reply to: whereislogic

That text does not mean that there is evil in Jesus, nor is it evidence for that. If that was what was meant, that is what it would have said.

Jesus certainly did say that "none are good but one, that is, God" (Mark 10:18). Clearly stating that God alone exists in a state of perfection. If a person becomes one with the Father. That does not imply that person is good. Rather its the state of perfection that is good that the person resides in (God is the alpha and omega). Rather than residing in a state of imperfection of ones mind.