You Either Keep Getting Your Booster Shots Or Admit You Were Wrong

a reply to: Asmodeus3
But safety and effectiveness for widespread human use is only established in phase 3 and that can take as little as 1 year under the normal process.

It's that simple.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

Still I don't know where you got the figure from as you wanted to make comparisons between aspirin and the mRNA products.


If it is then we will have more than 153,000 as that amount of deaths applied to 1 billion users. But there could be many more than a billion users on the planet.

Imagine you have 15.3 fatalities per 100,000 vaccinees?

Are you being obtuse on purpose, I think so.

here is one link...

Death rate attributed to NSAID/aspirin use was between 21.0 and 24.8 cases/million people, respectively, or 15.3 deaths/100,000 NSAID/aspirin users. Up to one-third of all NSAID/aspirin deaths can be attributed to low-dose aspirin use.

Obtuse

As I type in "aspirin 15.3 deaths per 100,000"

I see this on line 1

Why are you trying to be so difficult in all this?

Let me blow your mind even more...

Using Vioxx for arthritis pain carried a risk of 76 deaths per 100,000 people per year.
Using Tysabri, known generically as natalizumab, to treat multiple sclerosis raises the death rate by 65 per 100,000 people a year.

Want me to go on with a 100 more common drugs on the market? 15.3 is very safe...BTW so your BS 1 per 100,000 being super dangerous is something you need to rethink about.

Looking at your paper you have made a mistake I believe

Death rate attributed to NSAID/aspirin use was between 21.0 and 24.8 cases/million people, respectively, or 15.3 deaths/100,000 NSAID/aspirin users. Up to one-third of all NSAID/aspirin deaths can be attributed to low-dose aspirin use.

NSAID/aspirin deaths altogether.
Not just aspirin...

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

But still three different clinical phase trials to be squeezed in one year or so looks like a very 'accelerated' process that can have very damaging effects, as it has had already

I can agree 100% on that and why I think what Biden and team did along with many liberal Governments will haunt them down the road for a very long time to come. I agree with you 100% that pushing any drug quickly through trials has greater risk than a normal trial which still has a good amount of risk is something we should have caged in correctly. The correct decision should had been to provide it only to the very old and high risk that were getting crushed by the virus and then back off with the general public in providing it on cases by case bases as to what an individual wanted to do. We didn't need the mandates at all and just compounded the whole issue of a fast passed trials.

What the TRUE end result has been is not so much the mRNA aspects of it but the spiked protein that we have seen serious issues with it that so many did not need the vaccine in the first place.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

I’m trying to see the relevance in relation to aspirin and other drugs.

Yes they can injure and kill people. There are many warnings about this and it is fairly common knowledge. Not denied or hidden in any way.

Most don’t take aspirin or many other drugs every day unless they and their doctors have determined that a risk benefit assessment determines it to be beneficial.

Even after that determination, if you refuse to take it, you don’t have to deal with losing your job, being prevented from travel, and generally being ostracized by society.

Apples and oranges.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Asmodeus3
But safety and effectiveness for widespread human use is only established in phase 3 and that can take as little as 1 year under the normal process.

It's that simple.

As I said before, during those drug commercials where at the end there is like 15 seconds of like 100 negative side effects to the drug were not really caught in the Phase 3 trials as much as the much longer Phase 4 monitoring with a much larger group of people to monitor.

We are seeing it with the COVID vaccine where longer issues with the actual spike protein would not be caught in the trails even if normal.

originally posted by: NorthOfStuff

Even after that determination, if you refuse to take it, you don’t have to deal with losing your job, being prevented from travel, and generally being ostracized by society.

Apples and oranges.

The aspirin part came into play because people are pushing the notion that 1 per 100,000 serous issues is enough to remove any drug from the market and so 1 per 100,000 means basically a very dangerous drug. Aspirin being 15.3 actual deaths per 100,000 when used as a procedure is actually still considered very safe, and even 75 per 100,000 is not big concerns. When you get to 125 per 100,000 then concerns start to form. Once again these are deaths...level 5 on the 1 through 5 scale of rating a serious issue.

The only reason I used aspirin is because it's been around like 4000 years so well past its trials...

a reply to: Xtrozero
Agreed, I was also saying that phase 3 doesn't catch mid and long term for any product made available to the public. It never has, so it is a bit of a strawman for people to pull that card.

My personal position is that anyone harmed by the jabs, because of the spike, were more than likely to be harmed by the spike from natural infection. So, vax or don't vax, these people were SOL either way.

Not gonna lie, I see the money grab, but I don't buy into anything past that.

originally posted by: Asmodeus3
NSAID/aspirin deaths altogether.
Not just aspirin...

Actually no...

(NSAIDs) is class of medications called nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs and aspirin is in that class too. So, what they are saying is using aspirin or some other drug in the NSAIDs class....

These are all in the NSAID class.

Acuprin Addaprin
Anacin Advil
Ascriptin Cedaprin
Aspergum I-Prin
Aspidrox Midol
Aspir-Mox Motrin
Aspirtab Motrin-IB
Aspir-trin NeoProfen
Bayer Profen IB
Bufferin Proprinal
Buffex Ultraprin
Easprin
Ecotrin
Empirin
Entaprin
Entercote
Fasprin
Genacote
Gennin-FC
Genprin
Halfprin
Magnaprin
Miniprin
Minitabs
Ridiprin
Sloprin
Uni-Buff
Uni-Tren
Valomag
Zorprin

originally posted by: daskakik
Agreed, I was also saying that phase 3 doesn't catch mid and long term for any product made available to the public. It never has, so it is a bit of a strawman for people to pull that card.

They are making issues about the vaccine that we typically see as normal with other drugs, but then they are all good.

My personal position is that anyone harmed by the jabs, because of the spike, were more than likely to be harmed by the spike from natural infection. So, vax or don't vax, these people were SOL either way.

Not gonna lie, I see the money grab, but I don't buy into anything past that.

One point that I have made many times is the vaccine is a limited amount of spike protein where most stay in the injection area or lymph node and has a limited lifespan. The actual virus is a spike protein making factory on a massive scale compared to the vaccine. For people who are sick well under a week there is typically no issues, but the longer one is sick the longer the virus is pumping spike protein throughout their body into all vital organs too, and that just opens up all kinds of issues.

My other point is we will all get the virus so if one is young and expectation is you are sick a few days then don't get the vaccine and let nature do its thing. If you are high risk, then you need to limit those days sick and get the vaccine. It is very simple...

The whole mandate pushing the vaccs on everyone is a whole other issue I think 99% of us can all agree was very bad to do.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: daskakik
Agreed, I was also saying that phase 3 doesn't catch mid and long term for any product made available to the public. It never has, so it is a bit of a strawman for people to pull that card.

They are making issues about the vaccine that we typically see as normal with other drugs, but then they are all good.

My personal position is that anyone harmed by the jabs, because of the spike, were more than likely to be harmed by the spike from natural infection. So, vax or don't vax, these people were SOL either way.

Not gonna lie, I see the money grab, but I don't buy into anything past that.

One point that I have made many times is the vaccine is a limited amount of spike protein where most stay in the injection area or lymph node and has a limited lifespan. The actual virus is a spike protein making factory on a massive scale compared to the vaccine. For people who are sick well under a week there is typically no issues, but the longer one is sick the longer the virus is pumping spike protein throughout their body into all vital organs too, and that just opens up all kinds of issues.

My other point is we will all get the virus so if one is young and expectation is you are sick a few days then don't get the vaccine and let nature do its thing. If you are high risk, then you need to limit those days sick and get the vaccine. It is very simple...

The whole mandate pushing the vaccs on everyone is a whole other issue I think 99% of us can all agree was very bad to do.

If it was a real vaccine you wouldn't get the virus.

a reply to: Xtrozero
Exactly, "I don't remember ever seeing anything like this" when chances are they never bothered to look before this.

Then someone comes along and informs them this is how it is and how it has been for a while and they apparently just can't wrap their heads around it.

I can almost get behind your position on the mandate thing, on principle, but the following is where we are left with a big question mark as to whether one thing was actually worse than the other.

The actual virus is a spike protein making factory on a massive scale compared to the vaccine.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Asmodeus3
NSAID/aspirin deaths altogether.
Not just aspirin...

Actually no...

(NSAIDs) is class of medications called nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs and aspirin is in that class too. So, what they are saying is using aspirin or some other drug in the NSAIDs class....

These are all in the NSAID class.

Acuprin Addaprin
Anacin Advil
Ascriptin Cedaprin
Aspergum I-Prin
Aspidrox Midol
Aspir-Mox Motrin
Aspirtab Motrin-IB
Aspir-trin NeoProfen
Bayer Profen IB
Bufferin Proprinal
Buffex Ultraprin
Easprin
Ecotrin
Empirin
Entaprin
Entercote
Fasprin
Genacote
Gennin-FC
Genprin
Halfprin
Magnaprin
Miniprin
Minitabs
Ridiprin
Sloprin
Uni-Buff
Uni-Tren
Valomag
Zorprin

15.3 deaths per 100,000 not from each one but from all together. It doesn't say just aspirin there.

Up to one-third of all NSAID/aspirin deaths can be attributed to low-dose aspirin use

So the number of deaths attributed to aspirin is much less.

There are several non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs that are used. If its one had 15.3 deaths per 100,000 then the combine effect would have been catastrophic!

So the above should be the combined effect.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Xtrozero
Agreed, I was also saying that phase 3 doesn't catch mid and long term for any product made available to the public. It never has, so it is a bit of a strawman for people to pull that card.

My personal position is that anyone harmed by the jabs, because of the spike, were more than likely to be harmed by the spike from natural infection. So, vax or don't vax, these people were SOL either way.

Not gonna lie, I see the money grab, but I don't buy into anything past that.

An unsubstantiated claim and a personal opinion in the absence of any evidence and reading. But it is just an opinion of yours as you have said.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Asmodeus3
But safety and effectiveness for widespread human use is only established in phase 3 and that can take as little as 1 year under the normal process.

It's that simple.

I can't remember which other process in the past took just one year or so where all clinical phase trials were squeezed and they were going at the speed of science in order to mass vaccinate billions and mandate these products on certain occasions and professions.

Can you name which vaccine was that?

a reply to: v1rtu0s0

You Shouldn't call them "boomer shots"; many 'boomers' I know didn't get any of the shots, and to this day are glad for it. I was forced to either get a shot or not be able to continue my business. That impending lawsuit is for another time and conversation. However, we -- my Bride and me -- after extensive research -- elected to take AstraZeneca -- a viral vector vaccine, rather than an mRNA. SO glad. It appears to be a true vaccine, and it keeps working. I would have rather not taken anything at all.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

But still three different clinical phase trials to be squeezed in one year or so looks like a very 'accelerated' process that can have very damaging effects, as it has had already

I can agree 100% on that and why I think what Biden and team did along with many liberal Governments will haunt them down the road for a very long time to come. I agree with you 100% that pushing any drug quickly through trials has greater risk than a normal trial which still has a good amount of risk is something we should have caged in correctly. The correct decision should had been to provide it only to the very old and high risk that were getting crushed by the virus and then back off with the general public in providing it on cases by case bases as to what an individual wanted to do. We didn't need the mandates at all and just compounded the whole issue of a fast passed trials.

What the TRUE end result has been is not so much the mRNA aspects of it but the spiked protein that we have seen serious issues with it that so many did not need the vaccine in the first place.

Yes I think most of us agree here.

The spike protein has been proved to be pathogenic and most cases if not all of myocarditis and other cardiac related conditions post vaccination are due to the free spike protein.

originally posted by: v1rtu0s0

If it was a real vaccine you wouldn't get the virus.

That is not true at all. There are more vaccines that do not prevent getting the virus than those that do. Has most to do with the actual virus.

originally posted by: daskakik

I can almost get behind your position on the mandate thing, on principle, but the following is where we are left with a big question mark as to whether one thing was actually worse than the other.

I guess my point there is if you are young and healthy and with the virus you are sick let's say 3 days without the vaccine and you are also sick for 3 days with the vaccine then you do not need the added risk no matter how low with the vaccine. If you are in the higher risk categories and the expectation are you will most likely be sick much longer than 3 days then you should get the vaccine. I'm 62 and I was sick like 2 days with the virus, as example. I know others without the vaccine that were sick weeks, and though they got over it finally they have lingering issues and it is that "weeks" of being sick as to what we should focus on to prevent.

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

15.3 deaths per 100,000 not from each one but from all together. It doesn't say just aspirin there.

Up to one-third of all NSAID/aspirin deaths can be attributed to low-dose aspirin use

You have 325mg normal dose aspirin and you have the 87mg low dose. What they are saying is 1/3 of the deaths from all the NSAID class is actually the low dose 87mg aspirin, and that makes sense since the low dose is part of a long-term procedure to thin blood. / means and/or

a reply to: Asmodeus3
It isn't my opinion that someone said phase 3 trials usually take from 1 to 4 years.

It also isn't just my opinion that someone said and showed that accelerated clinical phase trials exist.

Whether you remember any or not has no bearing on how long phase 3 trials take or of the existence accelerated clinical phase trials.