Metaphor for ATS

Yeah..., I stopped going to that church.

I'll explain why,

So I'm there, right? Sitting next to this pretty little 10 year-old girl, I vaguely remember thinking, "I hope God keeps her safe from the bad people in the world." I guess I would call that a little prayer. I was waiting for the lady with the collection 'basket' (used to be a shallow plate last year,) watching as people placed their loose cash or envelopes in the basket.

Then I noticed a guy, quite poorly dressed and ragged, quietly standing by the entrance, a fair distance between him and the others in the back. It was evident that people were glancing his way in disdain, and could that be ... disgust?

I was being judgmental, not of him... In my mind, he was heroic... homeless, but still willing to come to church, still trying to be part of worship. I was being judgmental of them, the congregation who seemed unable to even for the moment to be 'accepting' ... I imagined that they were harboring very poor feelings about him not looking 'fit' to be in church.. a smelly street person, they were presuming he was hoping for hand-outs from the congregation afterwards, or maybe even worse... subtly sharing their sneers with each other.

People were singing a hymn of the glory of Christ. I was ashamed of myself. Who am I to say that these people were shallow and used church for social posturing with each other...? That's just as wrong as what I was internally accusing them of. "Sorry 'bout that God." I thought. Deep breath.

The basket came around and I dropped my $10 dollar bill in. (Could it have been more? Sure, I guess so.) The collectors proceeded towards the back (actually the entrance) and eventually reach the homeless guy. He drops one crumpled dollar and some change into the basket, the ching of metal coins dribbling into the basket sounded weirdly loud... because people were watching quietly. I actually registered a "hmmph" coming from several directions... maybe I wasn't far off in my estimations...

Church let out and when I turned and looked the man wasn't there anymore. As we walked out, I overheard people saying mean things... "Disgusting," one said, and another said we should not let "them" hang out during services, another lamented the horrible state of things when such people can walk around wherever they want. All of that I was struggling with in my heart... And then I hear... "A dollar, A DOLLAR? What good is that? How is that going to help?" "He should get a job!" ...

The only thought screaming through my head... "He GAVE!"

This new church is not as pretty. But our clergyman here, goes out after, tries to find every homeless attendee to give them food, he talks to them, sometimes even gives them some of the money collected that day. The homeless know his name, and he knows them...

Better.

a reply to: Maxmars

Luk 21:3  And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all: 
Luk 21:4  For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.

The Holy spirit is sometime in the form of a homeless person, checking up on the "Christians" and taking names for future reference.

I think he also has an ATS account.

Gal. 6:7 "You reap what you sow"

a reply to: Maxmars

Where else can a homeless person go for help, spiritually and bodily?

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: Maxmars

Where else can a homeless person go for help, spiritually and bodily?

There are many religious organizations helping the homeless.

smokefreehousinginfo.com...

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: Maxmars

Where else can a homeless person go for help, spiritually and bodily?

There are many religious organizations helping the homeless.

smokefreehousinginfo.com...

Of course, but this particular homeless man may have been seeking God as well, where better than God's house. Or he may have been seeking to be accepted into a religious fold, and boy did he pick the wrong congregation, it appears.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: Maxmars

Where else can a homeless person go for help, spiritually and bodily?

There are many religious organizations helping the homeless.

smokefreehousinginfo.com...

Of course, but this particular homeless man may have been seeking God as well, where better than God's house. Or he may have been seeking to be accepted into a religious fold, and boy did he pick the wrong congregation, it appears.

Very true...!!

At one time I was a hopeless drunk, homeless, emotionally and spiritually dead inside. I've been there!
Compassion, recovery and grace can be found in the strangest places. Local 47 for example.

a reply to: Maxmars

in my head, I always picture Jesus coming back as a homeless person, how better to judge where humanity's heart is at the time.

If You can handle it, check out the words to this number.



just in case vid doesn't work

… In a church on Sunday morning
Sat a man unwelcome there
Judged by men and not by Jesus
He lifted up his voice in prayer
… Steer me on the righteous pathway
Help me humbly to abide
Hold me to your precious bosom
Let me walk lord by your side
… Several silent moments followed
It seemed that no one was in that room
Then a voice it roared like thunder
Look for me I'm coming soon
… Such a change I've never witnessed
Tear filled eyes were plainly shown
Gathered there around that stranger
Saying God bless you welcome home

edit to add: While I struggled with this post there were several more added ... to you all I say my deepest thanks for entertaining the story. This 'response was made without seeing the excellent responses before it... and frankly I wanted you to see my answer as I crafted it... just for the sake of honesty.


Someone (at home) asked me "in what way is this a "metaphor" for ATS.

* sigh *

Oh well, No one ever said I was Hemmingway... I wanted to be briefer... it didn't really work I guess. No worries!

Ok, look...

Members of ATS come here to speak to one another. To hope to learn something new or understand something they didn't before. Maybe they come share some bit of news or get someone else's thoughts on something. Maybe members just want a respite from the crapfest of other "social" media. We 'congregate' virtually.

Then we do what we do; we sift reality from fantasy, enjoy fantasy to release our angst of reality, we bring what we get, and often we get more. Here, we exercise a modicum of free speech, even when it makes some other member crazy. But that's cool... it's alright that we do this, because the alternative is to go crazy alone.

When the homeless shows up at ATS, rather than helping them through the experience of being here, will we crush every observation as ill-informed, biased, or just foolish? Will we decry their ignorance? Will we seek to persuade, or just impose judgment?

Rather than judge, I think we need to remember that there was a time when much of what we talk about was new to us. That we weren't always seeking to be more informed, and to many becoming more informed means 'changing' in the eyes of others, like family, friends, and peers... people who generally matter. We are accepting that those who can't fight the narratives, who need for themselves the sensation of safety in conformity, will feel threatened by the uncertainties we explore.

But there are some others who just can't stand that we "appear to be doing nothing" and we should "do" something. Such is the alure of nascent activism. And with it brings the harsh reality that activism is a favored target for abuse and exploitation. That passion is easily misdirected into a false framework of heroism, and change... usually steeped in imagery provided by someone else... produced by someone else.

In this story, the churchgoing homeless represents all who venture into a new world, one with its own set of normal social elements, mostly related to egos.

I want ATS to be analogous to the 'second' church in the story... in that its better, because we choose it to be that way. I want ATS to be the one that simply can't be the first.

I know..., it's just a short story... it made me think of the ways a community like ours can evolve... Have you seen the alternatives lately? If our community didn't exist there would be no real alternatives... In the end the story was not about 'helping' those who are homeless, but about accepting that we are all only a few steps from the same state ... helping others is how we help ourselves. My opinion... at ATS I've seen people being as helpful as they can and not making a virtue signal out of it ... they're just trying to help ... I like it. Better.

"Why aren't we out there doing something to make things better?" Open your eyes, ... we are. Learn by doing.

a reply to: Maxmars

a reply to: Maxmars

Ok, Ok.

But we can still be bad in the mud-pit, right?

Right?

a reply to: Maxmars

I think the spiritual leader of that church should be changing up his sermons to help people remember what exactly are the roots of Christianity and how to be Christian, as it seems they forgot.

I approach those judgemental people in my own way. I'll give you an idea by this experience I had on a cruise ship.

So this particular cruise hosted a large number of Baptists (do they have conventions?) any way hubby was fascinated so he would sneak into the auditorium to watch their goings-on.

So one day I met him at the auditorium and we and a few other Baptist people got into the elevator. The man was telling his wife how everyone on the ship, other than his Baptist fold, were basically sinning crap. He said 'everywhere I look'.

Of course, I never remain quiet when I feel injustice is afoot (to hubby's chigrin), so I chimed up and said "Seek and thou shalt find". He and his wife turned abruptly, gobsmacked, then his wife piped up and said "Yeah".

After that every time I turned around there they were.

I thought that experience ran along the lines of the message here.

originally posted by: MykeNukem
a reply to: Maxmars

Ok, Ok.

But we can still be bad in the mud-pit, right?

Right?

That's what it's there for!

a reply to: quintessentone

I used to be a regular among those who look upon [insert sarcastic tone] those "other" denominations [end tone] in criticism.

Then I realized that in religious social order are no different than any other. Emotional tribalism, presumptions of superiority, generally disdainful demeanor... Oi.

Humanity is the church... all the other crap is theater.

Ancient man was technologically inferior, socially clumsy, and prone to a butt load of ignorance... and yet their wisdom still outshines anything we can tease out of our modern glitz. It baffles me that so many miss that wisdom outright.

"Seek and thou shalt find" is a densely packed piece of wisdom... it 'transcends' almost everywhere it is uttered.

a reply to: Maxmars

Amen!

Thank you for reminding me of what's important.

a reply to: Maxmars

I was going to go off a tangent about churches, and how i like them alot when they don't do their hokuspokus rituals. There is a sense of steadiness of energy, but then thought about the metaphor and was wondering what does ats has to do with a church.
Glad you made that edit, as my pondering of the metaphor lead me down a similar path of reasoning.

a reply to: Terpene

Yeah, I guess my approach was too obtuse, perhaps not even a true parallel...

ATS is no church. I wouldn't expect anyone to spontaneously embrace ATS as a central unity, nor adopt an attitude of subordination to the group. In fact, I would reject that completely.

We have no central doctrine... the closest thing to it would be the concept of "Deny Ignorance" which I believe has value that can be expressed outside ATS just as easily as inside it. Although here we will defend it... out there it could get you beat up.

If a man is worth 1 million dollars gives a dollar it’s .000001th of his worth if his worth is 1 dollar it’s 100% of his worth who really gave more? a reply to: Maxmars

originally posted by: Noaccountability
If a man is worth 1 million dollars gives a dollar it’s .000001th of his worth if his worth is 1 dollar it’s 100% of his worth who really gave more? a reply to: Maxmars

It may have been a gesture to the congregation that he wanted to use his money for the good of others, or if that was all had, then he was willing to give up all that he had to follow the road to perfection -

Jesus does not mean that all rich people cannot enter the Kingdom of God. It is just those who are obsessed with their wealth and riches and who do not use them for the good of others.

www.bbc.co.uk...

If it was a gesture to the congregation, then they all missed it.