Utah doctor charged with destroying vaccines giving fake shots to children at their parents' request

originally posted by: Maxmars
a reply to: Asmodeus3

Unfortunately, medicine by consensus doesn't work.

It doesn't work for those who wish to promote masks, distancing, and lockdowns, nor does it work it won't work for the doctor's case. In the matter as a legal case, he did defraud the CDC, and they have the legal precedents to support that charge.

His defense better not be the one that people are talking about.. namely, "It's wrong to vaccinate people against their wishes." That is not 'good enough' in a court of law. If the prosecution offers a plea deal... the doctor's attorneys should consider it carefully. His lawyers better focus on the CDC as the alleged 'injured' party, not the "people."

The giant list of 'crimes' he have been accused of (along with his associates) is typical prosecutorial strategy... charge a lot... something will 'stick.' Hopefully they can focus on administrative law, not criminal. Or this will become a clown-show for certain. A criminal approach will only incite more people and engender more agitation of the public... unless that is their intent.

We might all agree with the doctor's actions, but the rules we put in place were not reckless. They are meant to protect people from 'bad actors' in medicine.

All my opinion... which I am willing to accept might need more 'informing'... so inform away.

The matter is much more complex as it seems due to the fact that he is a medical professional and was in agreement with the parents of those kids. He has reasons to believe that the mRNA products may harm these children. Several cases of harm can be claimed and analysed. In addition the medium and long term effects are not known.

In terms of the legal case the above could be used for his defence and others reasons such as religious beliefs, the Hyppocratic oath he took when he became a doctor, etc.

It would be very difficult to convict him of harm as the saline solutions are harmless. I guess that some of the charged will be dropped on the way and some will remain. But there is plenty of public support which makes it very difficult to convict him for everything he was charged.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

There may well be a statue of this guy in Utah one day

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

The matter is much more complex as it seems due to the fact that he is a medical professional and was in agreement with the parents of those kids. He has reasons to believe that the mRNA products may harm these children. Several cases of harm can be claimed and analysed. In addition the medium and long term effects are not known.

In terms of the legal case the above could be used for his defence and others reasons such as religious beliefs, the Hyppocratic oath he took when he became a doctor, etc.

It would be very difficult to convict him of harm as the saline solutions are harmless. I guess that some of the charged will be dropped on the way and some will remain. But there is plenty of public support which makes it very difficult to convict him for everything he was charged.

But his moral objection is not a defense. He may be right about what 'could' be harmful consequences. But the charge is that he was obliged to obey the established CDC protocols and processes set forth in the distribution and application of the medical service in question. He did not refuse to give them the vaccine, he pretended to do so. Further he documented the administration of the vaccine as if he performed it per the regulations. His associates conspired to make this deception possible. This is fraud and conspiracy to commit fraud. These acts are not really defensible 'after the fact of discovery.'

Frankly, the prosecutors will have to justify not charging the parents for their complicity. If the parents are not joining the prosecution's case, they could be so charged. (Which gives rise to the possibility that parents could be coerced under color of law to add their names to the case against the doctor, or face prosecution themselves.)

The "proper" course of action would to have been to refuse to administer the vaccine outright... but then this wouldn't be a case of a doctor committing fraud against the CDC... it would be a doctor who lost his license to practice, I'm certain.

Also we must now begin to accept that many doctors never took the oath of Hippocrates, as most of the young one's I talk to seem to find it a quaint and entirely unnecessary tradition. Actually, some find it a laughable practice, and I bet many see it as a 'lip service' thing, if they do.

Now, given that they climate in our society is prone to manipulation by media saturation and weaponized social media coverage it is possible that those charged will not suffer greatly beyond the punishment the licensing authority will impose. But the CDC is hell-bent of being 'the iron will of government' here... I doubt they will relax about it at all. Especially if they pursue the administrative law approach versus the criminal approach.

They may not want to take this to a jury though... so administrative prosecution is the most likely to achieve what they want. A jury could, in theory "nullify" any verdict the court may demand... not that it's likely... it is the single most resisted legal reality in the whole of American juris prudence. It might also be possible that a judge could rule "time served" and let it go at that... assuming he or she was about to retire anyway - because after that, it is unlikely any judge would be well-received in the political world of 'the law.'

I have to point out that I personally am not 'for' persecuting the massive resistance to the COVID event as it has been foisted on us. Therefore, I am not 'for' prosecuting this as a crime. Don't shoot the messenger.

In any case, this doctor's career is over... at least in Utah.

But hey, you never know, now that we are living in the clown world of 'optics.'

originally posted by: McGinty
a reply to: Asmodeus3

There may well be a statue of this guy in Utah one day

Where do I send a check? I will do it if they build it.

ETA
The proper way to challenge fake science is to challenge it on every conceivable level. That is the only way to run charlatans out who are actually hurting children with their jabs. This Doc will end up being a winner in the end because he is right, and the truth is he is saving lives by disobeying the Pharmacia beast of destruction.

a reply to: Justoneman

I agree ... he is morally right.

But I still think he will be found guilty... and I still think his license in Utah is done.

a reply to: Maxmars

I can't see a jury of 12 given him a guilty. I see them making a statement about laws that violate our human rights being applied so liberally that people are dying if we don't do everything in our power to stop the evil plan in it's tracks.

a reply to: Maxmars

The "proper" course of action would to have been to refuse to administer the vaccine outright... but then this wouldn't be a case of a doctor committing fraud against the CDC... it would be a doctor who lost his license to practice, I'm certain

This is what I have said here and on the case of the German Nurse who did exactly the same i.e injected people with saline solutions.

I would have refused to administer the shots on the basis of possible serious harms in children and young and healthy adults and instead I would have hold a press conference with as many reporters as possible and explained myself. And before that I would have asked my managers (if I was working in a hospital) or anywhere else, to exclude me from the vaccination campaign and asked to continue performing my other duties as normal.

Press conferences would have had a massive impact regardless of how the MSM responded. The word round have been spread like fire.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

It is hard position to be in. He could have just refused to administer the vaccines, but that would not have helped the parents or the children.

He decided to do what they keep screaming from the roof tops, but they never actually stand up and do, "Protect the children".

He did what he thought was the lesser of two evil's at the time.

I am not sure I would have been that brave. But if it were not for people like him, we would have no stories like those of Anne Frank, no Fredrick Douglas.

We don't need heroes. We just need people who are willing to take make a stand for what is right.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: Asmodeus3

It is hard position to be in. He could have just refused to administer the vaccines, but that would not have helped the parents or the children.

He decided to do what they keep screaming from the roof tops, but they never actually stand up and do, "Protect the children".

He did what he thought was the lesser of two evil's at the time.

I am not sure I would have been that brave. But if it were not for people like him, we would have no stories like those of Anne Frank, no Fredrick Douglas.

We don't need heroes. We just need people who are willing to take make a stand for what is right.

Very well said!!!

The dilemma is there. But when it comes to children you have to follow your consciousness as well as the evidence and facts about the disease and the vaccines. This also applies to adults.

We cannot expect everyone to stand up but there are those who will stand up no matter what. Parents should have done the same thing and organised in groups so to support each other and whoever else was looking for advise.

I would have refused to administer these vaccines informed the managers and held a press conference. It would have been picked up by the MSM no matter the avoidance and their vaccine apologetics and denialism of reality.

originally posted by: opethPA
Did this Doctor break the law?

When a law is evil - or when protecting children or others from harm is declared evil - then it is virtuous to break and/or ignore such laws.

PERIOD.

Kids do not die from Covid.

Kids die from Covid vaccines.

Prove me wrong.

originally posted by: iwanttobelieve70
Kids do not die from Covid.

Kids die from Covid vaccines.

Prove me wrong.

There are a few vaccine apologists who can try and have tried in the past but I don't know whether they will appear to defend the vaccines and the pharmaceuticals.

This situation is really sad because this doctor and associates will likely face serious consequences for trying to help these Families.Thankfully my child is a young woman now and she chose to not get jabbed and suffer through all the BS we were put through. ( not attending a special wedding because venue required jab for example ) It must have been brutal for so many parents who didn’t want to jab their kids with this experimental junk, knowing it would mean their kids were gong to be excluded from many meaningful life building experiences.

I can understand why parents were willing to fake proof of jab papers so their kids could participate in , well Life ! However, it also might have been a time to teach their kids that sometimes doing the right thing requires giving up immediate gratification. IDK, pretending to go along with this debacle just postponed solving the problem of allowing these bullying companies from mandating medical decisions that are none of their darn business ! In the end many businesses, schools and venues got the message when they lost money and good employees and changed their tune about mandating jabs and masks.

But, yeah, having your babies suffer because they can’t do something they love or looked forward to because of the jab sure would pull on a parents heartstring’s God Bless all the parents who got creative during this nightmare and managed to get their kids through it with minimal damage and maybe even a good life lesson.

Wow.

a reply to: MountainLaurel

After thinking about this for a while, I hope that there are thousands of other doctors that did this, and that they don't get found out.

A doctor is not supposed to do anything to a patient without their consent. And if they know that the patient is being forced or coerced into a injection they do no want, they are actually providing the patient with the the care requested.

I can guarantee you the government and the pharmaceutical companies have been fudging the numbers from the beginning. If they punish this doctor, they should punish everyone in the medical community, the pharmaceutical industry, and the government, all that have been lying through their teeth from the very beginning.

a reply to: MountainLaurel

Regardless of intentions I am of the opinion that citizens didn't do what it was expected of them and they succumbed to pressure. They should have said a big NO to this absurd campaign and its narratives that have been debunked one by one.

I said no by just using my common sense, prior academic knowledge, and the basic principles of science. You don't need academic knowledge by the way to say no to this absurd and ludicrous campaign and ideology.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: MountainLaurel

After thinking about this for a while, I hope that there are thousands of other doctors that did this, and that they don't get found out.

A doctor is not supposed to do anything to a patient without their consent. And if they know that the patient is being forced or coerced into a injection they do no want, they are actually providing the patient with the the care requested.

I can guarantee you the government and the pharmaceutical companies have been fudging the numbers from the beginning. If they punish this doctor, they punish everyone in the medical community, the pharmaceutical industry, and the government, all that have been lying through their teeth from the very beginning.

It's very likely there are others too who have acted similarly and provided either saline solitons or nothing at all to the potential vaccinees.

In another thread that I made a few weeks ago a German Nurse did exactly the same thing and didn't go to jail.

There is no justification for this vaccination campaign as there was a very strong element of coercion, pressures, intimidation, harassment, and threats of dismissal by employers.

The campaign must be condemned and the perpetrators and those responsible (and there are many) to be arrested and indicted.

Nuremberg 2.0

a reply to: Asmodeus3

I think the biggest issue is that we "DID" say "NO".

Then all plausible amplification and pressuring techniques were employed at every level to change that "No" into "Duh... vaxxin' is bad... Jebus told me through my tin foil hat! ... leave me alone or I'll kill your grandma with my germs! Heil Hitler, hail Satan!"

Millions refused despite the 'plan' ... the WEF folks are still crying about it right now.

They discovered that despite weaponized social media, full-scale press propaganda, government toady's echoing corporate think tank talking points, "celebrity" buy-in, and 'color of law' mandates... we remained unconvinced of their campaign to create a world where we all must "do as we are told."

This doctor wasn't persuaded, and he is not alone. The government will make him pay for choosing his judgment over their infallibility, but I feel certain communities will do everything in their power to make it less horrible for him and his friends, insofar as that's possible.

a reply to: Maxmars

This doctor wasn't persuaded, and he is not alone. The government will make him pay for choosing his judgment over their infallibility, but I feel certain communities will do everything in their power to make it less horrible for him and his friends, insofar as that's possible.

I pray you are right and that there are many medical facilities and patients that value his attempts to fight back for his patients.

We are too close to false science based societies that will control who and what we are. We need more doctors that will assist their patients, and if necessary, will give them a friendly reminder that right handed men don't hold it with their left.

originally posted by: Maxmars
a reply to: Asmodeus3

I think the biggest issue is that we "DID" say "NO".

Then all plausible amplification and pressuring techniques were employed at every level to change that "No" into "Duh... vaxxin' is bad... Jebus told me through my tin foil hat! ... leave me alone or I'll kill your grandma with my germs! Heil Hitler, hail Satan!"

Millions refused despite the 'plan' ... the WEF folks are still crying about it right now.

They discovered that despite weaponized social media, full-scale press propaganda, government toady's echoing corporate think tank talking points, "celebrity" buy-in, and 'color of law' mandates... we remained unconvinced of their campaign to create a world where we all must "do as we are told."

This doctor wasn't persuaded, and he is not alone. The government will make him pay for choosing his judgment over their infallibility, but I feel certain communities will do everything in their power to make it less horrible for him and his friends, insofar as that's possible.

Indeed some of us said no to this absurd campaign. I am sure there are millions of us but a much larger bulk of people succumbed to pressure.They were coerced, intimidated, harassed on occasions, and even threatened with dismissal by their employers if they didn't get 'vaccinated'.

The campaign was and ot is still unconvincing and has pretty much failed to preserve itself. See how many of us have signed up for their boosters.fir example. But the damage has been done. However it is not an irreversible process. That's the good news.