Ghostfliers - A UAP Phenomenon

It's story time! This is a topic near and dear to me (aviation & radiotelephone background), but not frequently discussed in ufology: The Ghostfliers. This obscure corner of the UAP world pokes and prods at top-secret aircraft projects, less "terrestrial" phenomena, and even nods to a few elements of the famous black triangles. If nothing else, the legendary Ghostfliers are an often overlooked but important part of UFO history, with fascinating and detailed witness accounts from all over the planet.

[Part 1]

The Story of the Ghostfliers


Unidentified Flying Objects come in a pick & mix variety of shapes, commonly reported are the ubiquitous "flying saucers", along with spheres, cigars, and triangles. There are plenty more than that; cones, pyramids, jam jars, you name it. Still falling into the UAP category is a less common phenomenon referred to as Ghostfliers: Peculiar "aircraft" that come in a range of sizes, are generally black or gray in color, and generally have no visible markings. These "aircraft" are usually seen flying at treetop level at night, and witnesses often describe bright lights coming from the cockpit and cabin windows (pilots normally keep light to a minimum in the cockpit as not to impede night vision). Although less common than other unidentified aerial phenomena, Ghostflier sightings have been puzzling witnesses for a quite a while.

Writer John Keel detailed some of the 1930s Scandinavian Ghostflier sightings in Flying Saucer Review (Keel - Mystery Aeroplanes of the 1930s), describing unmarked mystery aircraft performing daring maneuvers in questionable weather, usually at night. Mysterious radio signals containing information about the "Ghostfliers" often accompanied the sightings. In Chapter 7 of Operation Trojan Horse, Keel discussed more recent (at the time) reports of unidentifiable aircraft including one seen in broad daylight above an airport in San Carlos de Bariloche, near the city of Bahia Blanca, Argentina in the summer of 1968. Many witnesses stopped to watch as a strange aircraft, which had an unusually long fuselage and a short delta wing, glided slowly over the airport at about 200 feet above the ground. The control tower attempted to contact the intruding aircraft but received no response. The tower flashed his light gun signal at the aircraft, giving it a green-light to land, but the huge aircraft continued to lope around the field. It reached the end of runway 28, suddenly rolled over on its axis, and completed a 360-degree turn in a tight space.

Viewers with binoculars confirmed the craft had no markings, except for three small black squares and one large one on its fuselage. Nobody at the airport, pilots nor controllers, had ever seen anything like it before. The craft seemed to "glide" and only made a slight hissing noise as it floated along. After a few minutes, the aircraft sped up and shot off in a southeast direction. Argentine authorities were unable to identify or explain this aircraft.

Like the unexplained aircraft spotted in Argentina, the "ghostfliers" frequently behave in manners inconsistent with their visually apparent aerodynamic designs. For example, a general rule of thumb in aircraft design is the heavier the airplane in relative to the area of its wing, the faster the airplane will need to fly to stay aloft. There are more advanced considerations such as airfoil selection, lift/drag ratios, etc, but to avoid confusing (or worse, boring) the reader, we'll stay out of the engineering department. The aircraft in San Carlos de Bariloche was a large, presumably heavy aircraft with very little wing area, so it may be that the aircraft was either far lighter than it appeared, or perhaps there was more to it than just that.

More recently, in 2000, a man with a history of UFO sightings dating back to the 1960s (including a few investigated by the military) reported seeing a massive aircraft with eight engines, brightly lit windows, and a V-shaped tail (like on a Beechcraft Bonanza). The huge aircraft was "floating along" overhead at treetop level late in the afternoon above his home in Surrey, BC Canada. He estimated the aircraft to be about as long as a city block, and its wingspan to be in the neighborhood 300 feet. The aircraft roared "like a rumbling locomotive" and had what looked like smoke pouring out of the far right engine. The witness described something like a block hanging down from the front where the nose landing gear would be. Like the aircraft spotted over the airport in Argentina, this massive "jet" appeared to be flying far too slowly for an aircraft of its size and apparent weight. The witness noted that there was another aircraft visible approaching the airport at a higher altitude at the same time. The strange, unmarked, dark-colored aircraft continued floating along at a very low speed before taking a sharp right bank and disappearing. Steve Adair, Dwight Atkinson, and Graham Conway of UFO BC were involved in the investigation of this report. (UFO BC Article)

The witness phoned the airport asking if they knew anything about the aircraft. They gave him the run-around, the bottom line being, "we know nothing." The airport phoned him back the next day telling him they could find nothing on radar to match the description. They proceeded to ask more questions. Several days later, he received a phone call from a "General McDonald" from Canadian Air Defence in Goose Bay, Labrador who was on the phone for about a half hour asking him questions about the sighting such as the location and description, and discussed the other aircraft that was in the air at the same time. McDonald asked if the witness experienced any interference with the TV, computers, phones, etc. The witness became agitated when the General asked him if he drank, used drugs, or had ever been institutionalized. Taking this as a personal affront to his integrity, the witness made a rude remark and hung up. The General phoned back saying, "you don't get rid of me as easily as that." He continued asking questions, concluding with "you have a poor vocabulary." The witness brought him to a halt with yet another rude remark, and again hung up. This time, the General did not call back. Curious, the witness dialed *69 only to be told that his system did not provide access to this number.

[To Be Continued]

[Part 2]

The witness reported experiencing headaches, teary/gritty eyes, itchy skin, a rash on his hands and back. He also reported seeing "sparks" out of the corners of his vision. These are effects frequently seen in witnesses of potential EMR (electromagnetic radiation)-based equipment associated with certain UAP sightings (See Burnt and Sparking High Strangeness Cases and Microwave Audio Effect and High Strangeness Events).

About a week later, two investigators wearing gray suits with black shirts showed up at his door and produced IDs stating they were from the "Department of Canadian Air Defence". The two men interrogated the witness for the better part of the day about the aircraft which was seen flying so low and so slowly. They also asked him about his 1960s sightings. This astounded the witness as he did not mention the sightings to them at any time, but it's not as astounding considering the two men could have easily ran a check on the witness's name and pulled up the reports made by the F/L (First Lieutenant) who investigated the witness's 1967 sightings (now available here: FOIA report). In his excessively detailed descriptions, he implied that these two men may have been "Men In Black" agents, and included examples of peculiar, if not charming, dialog (e.g. when he offered them water, one of the men accepted a glass while the other said, "your water contains a lot of strange substances").

These implications should be taken with a grain of salt. According to the aforementioned FOIA report from the 1960s, although they concluded that he and his family had seen something which could not be explained, the investigator alluded to the possibility of an overactive imagination on the part of the witness, reporting extra details which were not observed. That's not to say the two men certainly were not MIB agents--the possibility is still there, but the witness's history of exaggeration should be considered in this case. That said, the witness did experience severe physiological effects following their interrogation, ranging from unbearable headaches to facial sunburn and eye issues (his doctor asked him if he had been exposed to a welding torch). These effects may have still been from the sighting, which happened only a couple weeks before the two men visited him. (Side note: there are many more details worthy of an article of its own regarding this case, but I am only including the information directly relevant to the topic at hand for this piece).

Before leaving, the two men told him that the aircraft he had seen was an experimental balloon, and the noise he heard was the air escaping from it. "Balloons" is a tiresome explanation in Ufology, but in this case, it's not out of the picture. The witness may have once again reported extra details that were not observed, perhaps inspired by reading John Keel's literature (carefully including details such as the bright lights in the windows and the sudden bank before its disappearance).

In the 1990s and 2000s, there were a number of projects and concepts involving large hybrid airships. Some of these hybrids, sometimes called "Plimps"--a combination of Plane and Blimp, are still "floating around", such as the Airlander. One interesting project from the early 2000s was the now cancelled Walrus HULA (Hybrid Ultra Large Aircraft) - Click Here.
The New Atlas article on the Walrus HULA was written in 2005, five years after the Canadian "Ghostflier" sighting, but the possibility remains that a one-off experimental aircraft, similar in design to the Walrus, was being test flown that day. The technology was there, and the description almost fits; note that the concept art featured in the New Atlas article shows a block hanging down from the bottom of it, as the witness described on the aircraft in his sighting. There are more concept renderings of the HULA in the article's gallery, several of them featuring tail sections that could vaguely be described as V-shaped, like the one in the sighting.

Although there are no confirmed aircraft projects (at least none made publicly available) that fit the description given by the witness to a tee, the concepts were there at the time of the sighting. On the other hand, the witness still may have had a genuine "Ghostflier" on his hands. It may also be that something more than "an experimental balloon" was being flown that afternoon; the only other unusual thing the witness reported at the time of the sighting was a smell of sulfur in the air, along with the physiological effects previously described.

Four years later in Tennesee, on October 2, 2004, another UFO witness was driving home when he saw what first looked like a fire on a nearby ridge. As he drove, he got closer to the “fire” and realized that it was not a fire at all but a series of three red-orange lights affixed to the bottom of a huge triangular object. He drove towards an intersection and exited his car to watch the triangular craft as it approached from the north. The object moved directly towards him and he was overcome by fear. He ran away from his car but realized there was nowhere to go. As the metallic triangle passed overhead, it blocked out all of the stars, and he estimated the size to be about 300’ in length. The bottom of the object was somewhat illuminated from the three symmetrical dome-like appendages which appeared to be filled with a violent, turbulent fire, and he described what appeared to be “ribs” running across the bottom of the triangle.

As the object passed directly over his head, he was exposed to something which “reverberated” through his body. He described experiencing many sensations all at once, including burning and tingling skin. He perceived a pulsating “drumming” noise emanating from the object, which also passed through his body. The object passed him before turning west, moving behind some nearby hills. The witness also described a metallic taste in his mouth and a nose bleed following the encounter. He later found a slight sunburn on his face and back. He also reported excessive hair loss and a temporary lethargic state. The witness noted 15 minutes of missing time during the incident.

(Kim Shaffer, Tennessee MUFON Link)

The Tennessee event was not a Ghostflier sighting, rather a triangular craft with no discernible airplane-like appendages (wings, tails, engines), but it is yet another low-flying, slow-moving vehicle which induced physical discomfort in the witness (including the sunburn on his face and back).

[To Be Continued]

[Part 3]

In some cases, triangular aircraft have been reported, such as this one from Goose Neck Canyon, Utah. On September 28, 1998, the main witness was with his brother and a friend in the scenic state run lookout (a very remote location) and they were the only ones there. They heard a huge "roar" or "rumbling" from their left, and saw a huge, black, unmarked aircraft flying low enough that they could see the pilot looking down at them. The main witness said the craft was much larger than a normal stealth fighter. It was triangular in shape with a bit of a nose. Unlike most "ghostfliers", this one was moving fast. The witnesses only saw it for about 3-4 seconds. The main witness was convinced that this was an "Aurora" prototype. (Albert Rosales, Humanoid 1998)

Another article from the 1950s describes a "Mystery Plane" with no visible propulsion mechanisms ('Mystery Plane' with 'No Visible Means of Propulsion' Sighted By Pilot | UFO CHRONICLE – 1951):

It was "as large or half again as large as a B-29," he said. Pilot Larry W. Vinther, 32, said he flew his Mid-Continent Airlines DC-3 passenger plane up to 4000 feet in an effort to get a good look at the huge plane. The plane was silhouetted in a moonlit sky. Vinther said, "by all we could actually see was its shape and nothing of the detail of its construction except that the leading edge of its wing was absolutely straight." Vinther said he saw "no visible means of powering the aircraft such as engine nacelles or pods. "I'd like to know what we saw," he said, "and so would the control tower at Sioux City." The mystery visitor appeared shortly after 8:30 p.m., Saturday as Vinther prepared to depart with Flight 9 for Omaha, Neb. "The tower saw it first," he said, "when a red light somewhere on it began to show at what the tower thought was 8000 feet." Vinther turned inside the mammoth plane as both aircraft circled Sioux City, "but we could see no lights aboard and I can't even describe the tail assembly–if it had one." Vinther remained in radio contact with the tower throughout the strange episode. His co-pilot, Jim Bachmeier, also of Kansas City, joined him in observing the plane. The cigar-shaped aircraft disappeared finally after rushing almost straight at Vinther's DC-3. It went under the passenger plane's fuselage and continued northwestward until it was lost from view. A veteran airline pilot said today he saw a huge "mystery plane" with no visible means of propulsion in flight above Sioux City, Ia. By The Charleston Daily Mail 1-22-1951

In Fairlee, Vermont, on January 3rd, 2007, another potential prototype was spotted. The witness saw a long wing-shaped craft with two lights on each side. As soon as he looked up, the craft began to fly "backwards", and then flew in his direction. Five minutes later, it came close to the witness and was low enough for the witness to see its wingspan but he was unable to detect any aircraft outline. It emitted a sound similar to that of a single-engine propeller aircraft, but much quieter. The "flying wing" hovered near the witness before taking off in the opposite direction over the mountains. The witness's normally active dogs didn't react to the object at all. That same night, the witness was getting ready to take the dogs out when he saw a figure of a man on his porch. As soon as he opened the door, the figure left quickly and silently; the only thing the witness heard was the rustling of the brush in the field. (source: NUFORC, Fairlee, VT 1/3/07)

There are more Ghostflier cases worth a look, but these are good examples of the general behavior of the phenomenon (and one detailed account of investigations following the sighting, in the case from BC, Canada). Unidentified Aerial Phenomena comes in all shapes and sizes, ranging from the unbelievable to the relatively earthly. Black projects, illusions, and misidentifications are probably responsible for a large percentage of Ghostflier sightings, but in some cases, the behavior of the aircraft (shooting off at incredible speeds and G-forces, or disappearing entirely in a clear sky in plain sight) appears too strange even for the wildest imaginations of Area 51 fanatics, leaving a few unsolved mysteries (at least, for now).

I have to go for now, but I hope you enjoyed this general "history piece" on the Ghostflier phenomenon.

Fascinating posts and the reason I come to ATS. Much better than all the political rubbish that seems to flood the forums these days.
S+F

So a Piolet and control see a aircraft that should Not be there.
why did they not send interceptor jets?
it could have been cccp.
or its a bl*ck project jet?

can we still say the colour bl*ck?

a reply to: devilhunter69

Thank you, I appreciate the kind words!

originally posted by: buddha
So a Piolet and control see a aircraft that should Not be there.
why did they not send interceptor jets?
it could have been cccp.

This is actually a very relevant question.
The airport was a civilian airport, so it's a little different than an intrusion of a restricted area.
Although the aircraft was violating the airport's controlled airspace, it was not violating an actual restricted area (such as restricted military related areas, or temporary flight restrictions such as those put up around a launch pad when a rocket launch is going to occur), so, essentially, the pilot of the "mystery plane" would have gotten was a slap on the wrist and a possible violation for landing without a clearance, providing he didn't have a good excuse (radio failure, etc) or an emergency.

This reminds me of the time when I had two radios fail in mid-flight, both the primary and the backup, while test-flying (with intent of purchase) a high-performance experimental single engine prop plane (there's more to the story but I'll keep it brief). I didn't have enough fuel to fly it all the way to the nearest non-towered airport, and none of the local grass strips could handle a plane of its landing speed, so I opted to land at the towered (class D) airport while watching for light gun signals (just like the one in the Argentina incident). Seeing the green light, I proceeded to land, park in front of the fuel pump, shut down, and phone the control tower. I explained the entire shenanigan, and he concluded with "get that thing fixed before you fly it here again!"
Whew.

(Ps. I did end up with the plane, I held on to it for a couple years before I ended up on extended travel)

a reply to: wavelength

I've always dismissed these types of UAPs as black ops and/or black blimp ops. What I want to focus on here are the witnesses' physical ailments after the encounters as they relate to being related to fear, incl. hallucinations.

From my quick research, it seems most of their ailments can be explained quite simply with fear/anxiety being the cause.

Rashes/allergic reactions perhaps due something in the air (sulphuric smell, smoke from craft)

That said, the witness did experience severe physiological effects following their interrogation, ranging from unbearable headaches to facial sunburn and eye issues (his doctor asked him if he had been exposed to a welding torch)

Stress rashes often take the form of hives, also called wheals or welts. Hives can appear anywhere on the body. Areas affected by hives are generally raised, itchy, and swollen and are sometimes warm to the touch. These blotchy areas can be as small as a pencil tip or as large as a dinner plate.

www.healthline.com...

Metallic taste in the mouth (from dry mouth, dry nose = nosebleeds):

For some people, anxiety causes an additional taste response: the presence of a persistent metallic taste. The medical name for it is dysgeusia.

Researchers don’t yet know exactly why the metallic taste appears. It may be because anxiety can cause your mouth to dry out, and the reduced flow of saliva causes bitter or metallic tastes

www.healthline.com...#:~:text=For%20some%20people%2C%20anxiety%20causes%20an%20additional%20taste, flow%20of%20saliva%20causes%20bitter%20or%20metallic%20tastes.

Eye flashes and migraines:

Migraine attacks can cause visual disturbances and changes that lead to flashes of light. This is called a migraine aura.

Eye flashes from a migraine aura may appear like jagged lines or cause a person’s vision to appear wavy.

As stress can be a trigger for some migraine attacks, it’s possible there’s a connection between stress, migraine, and eye flashes.

Then from how the mind works under stress/trauma it will try to make sense of the senseless, hence dissociation and perhaps hallucinations.

psychcentral.com...-is-dissociation

How can we eliminate these causes of fear/anxiety/trauma when the witnesses expressed themselves this is what they were feeling?

a reply to: quintessentone

I agree for the most part; I've never felt that anything particularly "alien" was behind the majority of these plane-like UAP sightings, but they do form an interesting picture of black ops tech.

I do have to disagree somewhat with the "stress rash" theory particularly in the BC Canada case, as the witness never expressed fear or emotional discomfort from his sighting (he seemed more awestruck than anything else). On the other hand, the interrogations following the sighting apparently left him feeling a little "zonked out" to say the least! It absolutely possible that a "strange substance" in the air was responsible for some of the irritation (like you said, the smoke pouring out of the craft and the sulfurous smell).

Although minor ailments can be attributed to stress and anxiety, serious ailments, occasionally resulting in death, including electromagnetic radiation induced adverse health effects have been associated with UAP/UFO sightings for decades, the government takes these fairly seriously. Anomalous Acute and Subacute Field Effects on Human Biological Tissues

Based on historical cases, humans have been found to have been injured from exposures to anomalous vehicles, especially airborne, and when in relatively close proximity.
• The primary mechanisms of injury are related to electromagnetic radiation field effects (EMR field effects).

• The biophysical characteristics of the injuries are well understood. The energy related propulsion systems are not well understood. The potential deployment of systems is thus important to understand. Sufficient incidents/accidents have been accurately reported, and medical data acquired, as to support a hypothesis that some advanced systems are already deployed, and opaque to full US understanding.

Amongst the most important pathophysiological effects are:
Heating and burn injuries, Ionizing and non-ionizing Thermally induced

Neurological effects, Cognitive / central nervous system Neuromuscular / central & autonomic nervous systems, Sensory / peripheral nervous system, Neuropsychiatric / neuroendocrine

Auditory / cranial nerves VII & VIII Communication & disabling effects Noise and central neurocognitive

There is a long history of mysterious flying vehicles other than the classic saucer type we associate with an alien vehicle, notably, along with what the OP mentions, the black helicopters.

I’ve always wondered to myself, thinking of the Admiral Byrd tales of a hidden civilization in Antarctica, that these types of sightings may indeed spell a possibility that we have some hidden civilization somewhere. Of course, quintessentone above mentions black ops. That is definitely a possibility.

BTW, I personally don’t believe in the Admiral Byrd tales. Still, only as an indication that there may be somewhere a hidden civilization in our environment, we don’t know about, closer to us than we think or know.

originally posted by: peaceinoutz
BTW, I personally don’t believe in the Admiral Byrd tales. Still, only as an indication that there may be somewhere a hidden civilization in our environment, we don’t know about, closer to us than we think or know.

When you take into consideration the billions of dollars of black budget money floating around, and the fact that the public doesn't know bugger all about what goes on behind the curtain, one could indeed say there is a civilization within civilization.
In some ways, it works like one big magic show. Sleight of hand, sleight of money, sleight of technology, and so on.

a reply to: wavelength

Who knows what was going on back in those times between the Russians, Americans and Canadians with EMF use either in attempted mind control or as a weapon. Would it not be easy for Russian black ops to enter Canadian space and test their EMF weapons on unsuspecting rural Canadians? Like shooting fish in a barrel.

During the Cold War, American state department employees dreaded assignments to Moscow, known as “the sickest embassy in the world.” From the 1950s to 1979, Russians blasted the U.S. Embassy with non-ionizing microwave radiation (2.5 to 4.0 GHz), some say for 40 hours a week. According to a well-known study, “Although the [microwave radiation] intensity reaching the embassy was approximately 500 times less than the U.S. standard for occupational exposure, it was twice the highest limit allowed by the Soviet standard.” 2.5 to 4 GHz are part of the range (up to 10 GHz) that includes modern wireless networks and cell towers, radar, 4 and 5G, smart meters, and cell and cordless phones.

Dr. Paul Dart MD, a researcher studying the health effects of smart meters, noted that “The US embassy personnel had a statistically significant increase in depression, irritability, concentration problems, memory loss, ear, skin, and vascular problems, and other health problems. The longer they worked there, the worse these problems were likely to be.”

A 1971 study by the Naval Medical Research Institute (NMRI) documented the biological impacts of microwave and radio frequency (RF) radiation — precisely what the Soviets used in Moscow. The, exhaustive and lengthy, includes:

Cataract lesions
Burns at the site of surgical implants, i.e. pins
Liver enlargement
Decreased fertility in men
Altered “fetal development”
Nervous system effects, including: headaches, insomnia, restlessness, cranial nerve disorders, seizures and convulsions
“Psychophysiologic” disorders, such as: depression, anxiety, neurasthenia (generally feeling lousy), dizziness, insomnia, fatigue, irritability, memory loss, chest pain, and tremors.

Several blood disorders, including increased white blood cell counts, were also identified. The report also notes biochemical, metabolic, gastrointestinal, and endocrine gland changes and disorders. Under “miscellaneous effects,” the study lists “loss of hair, sensations of buzzing vibrations,” and “sparks between dental fillings (!).”

...sensations of buzzing vibrations, isn't that interesting as one of the experiencers mentioned that symptom.

www.gaia.com...

I suspect over the decades…..these (including the B-1 and B-2) were seen and reported as UFO’s…


👽

a reply to: wavelength

Very interesting!

Thanks for the posts!

a reply to: wavelength
Great reading here, Thank you for putting this together. all time favorite topic of mine, as I have a mini-version of my own,

I have done backyard astronomy for decades and have seen more than a few very peculiar things happening in the sky
but the big one was in the late 80's without going into the whole story (I'm on a break at work) I actually ended up on the news after some strange events (light beams coming straight down outside the house, electrical disturbances, strange lights in the house, longer story than I can tell now) on a night that some other sightings were reported and made the news. One was just about 40 miles away,
one of my family members called the local news and they actually came out to interview me as part of a
"recent UFO flap" and I ended up on tv. Unfortunately it only made me look crazy, those were the days where they played silly spooky music and smirked while reporting...I took flak from my friends, my girlfriend flipped out, etc.then I got very strange phone call a day later from someone from the military ( he said he was with the Navy) asking me for specific details, He was serious. After describing what I saw he abruptly ended the call and I never heard anything about it again.
I have always been interested in the ghostfliers reports, strange flying craft. MIB's, military secrets, solid witnesses, all of it, Thanks again

a reply to: Ophiuchus1

Definitely. A fair amount (but not all) of the "Ghostflier" sightings reported over time can probably be attributed to the witness's misidentification of a relatively common military aircraft. I was just talking in person about some of the "alien" shaped craft (at the time) seen in Nazi Germany in the 1940s, the Horten flying wings, for one, among other "Gooney Birds" tested back then. They had some pretty exotic flying machines 80 years ago. It's not hard to imagine the variety of incredible modern-day flying machines that are kept hidden from the public.

That said, not many people have seen an SR-71 or a B-1 Lancer float along at 200', flip on its axis, and spin around.

a reply to: quintessentone
Absolutely.
In the 1970s, there was a well-documented bothersome signal: The Eugene Wavelength

The people of Eugene aren't the only ones complaining of EMR biohazard effects. Similar symptoms have been reported in such places as Timmons and Kirkland Lake in Canada. These effects were traced to a notorious Soviet radio broadcast dubbed by amateur radio operators "the woodpecker". These effects bear a strong resemblance to the biohazards inherent in Invisible Weapons like the electromagnetic pulse (EMP) under development by the Pentagon. Although the people of Eugene didn't know it, both the U.S. and Soviet military had been working for years to perfect the use of electromagnetic frequencies as lethal psychological weapons."

Also, check out this bit from The Body Electric by Robert O. Becker, M.D., and Gary Selden,
The Woodpecker

There were indeed tons of EMR/Microwave based concepts in use and testing at and before that time.

a reply to: Lr103

Wow! Thank you for sharing this. That sounds very similar in nature to the case mentioned in the OP from BC, Canada. He also claimed to experience strange orbs of light in his house following his sighting as well as other anomalous observations. I'd be very interested to hear the rest of your story in detail when you have the time!

originally posted by: Ophiuchus1
I suspect over the decades…..these (including the B-1 and B-2) were seen and reported as UFO’s…

👽

We have two threads going at the same time that I think some information should be repeated.

The father of stealth, check out the shapes he predicted best at scattering of electromagnetic waves:

In the 1960s Ufimtsev began developing a high-frequency asymptotic theory for predicting the scattering of electromagnetic waves from two-dimensional and three-dimensional objects. Among such objects were the finite size bodies of revolution (disk, finite cylinder with flat bases, finite cone, finite paraboloid, spherical segment, finite thin wire). This theory is now well known as the Physical Theory of Diffraction (PTD).

en.wikipedia.org...

I find hyperbolic paraboloid structures quite interesting as is the railway station in Warsaw, Poland.

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: wavelength

In terms of Aeronautics from the Nazi era, not the ideology, the Horten Brothers are my favs.

I have books and models of their flying wings. Phenomenally ahead of their time for that era..…even beyond Jack Northrop….imo.

But that’s a subject for a different thread in a different forum perhaps…😉

👽

originally posted by: wavelength
a reply to: Lr103

Wow! Thank you for sharing this. That sounds very similar in nature to the case mentioned in the OP from BC, Canada. He also claimed to experience strange orbs of light in his house following his sighting as well as other anomalous observations. I'd be very interested to hear the rest of your story in detail when you have the time!

Thanks, Its a longish story, I'm considering just making a thread about it in this forum for discussion, definitely has parallels to the BC story,

a reply to: wavelength

When you take into consideration the billions of dollars of black budget money floating around, and the fact that the public doesn't know bugger all about what goes on behind the curtain, one could indeed say there is a civilization within civilization.
In some ways, it works like one big magic show. Sleight of hand, sleight of money, sleight of technology, and so on.

Dolan calls that the breakaway civilization. Referring to the vaunted SSPs that are supposed to exist and very advanced. I personally don’t believe it’s that breakaway or advanced in any real tangible way. Greer advertises this as if it's a reality; I have my doubts.

I know people say the missing trillions in the defense budget the Sec of Defense Rumsfeld mysteriously referred to the day before 911 is supposed to be related to that. Maybe so.

But I don't mean that. I mean a real live hidden civilization somewhere, someplace we don't know about.