Why Russia hasn't completely destroyed Europe....yet?

Sometimes I can't tell if NATO/US leadership is as uninformed as the public, or if they know what Putin can actually do to them. In the thread specifically for the Russia-Ukraine war someone pointed out that Putin hasn't destroyed power turbines yet. There's a reason for this and it has to do with "power grid inertia".

So long as turbines are spinning and there's interconnects then blackouts transfer load to spinning machines that have huge amounts of inertia in them. Gigawatts of inertia and this load gets more or less distributed against a huge network.

Blackouts are attritive against the physical machines that generate electrical power because of the loss of load of all the consumers affected by the blackout, but destroying the spinning turbines themselves cause much more severe problems.

Ukraine, in its infinite wisdom, like a girlfriend with herpes and an imprisoned boyfriend about to get out of prison that she doesn't tell you about, joined the EU electrical grid and now Putin in fact holds the entire West hostage with a single well placed cruise missile dropping on a turbine hall.

For $50 you too can read studies about how blackouts and inertial damage to power grids cause attritive mechanical damage to power stations distributed through-out the entire power grid.

Someday Putin might just drop one bomb on the Dnieper Hydroelectric Station's turbine hall and cause $1Trillion in damage across the entire European Union.

Sleep well all those naysayers who think they know what's going on in Ukraine.

www.amazon.com...

a reply to: DarthTrader

And that would be an absolutely unambiguous act of war against NATO.

What do you think would happen next?

Would that increase or decrease Putins' chances of being successful in Ukraine?

a reply to: DarthTrader

He’s having a hard enough time with a country a third of the population as him… that he neighbors.

You think going for a factor of ten from countries that can project while he can’t will work?

Russians don't seem to mind battlefield losses and will turn the situation around. 1.5 million were thrown at the SS just to slow them down during WWII. They knew their cards on the way in. They are also watching as NATO bickers about where to get more supplies, they were bled dry with obsolete equipment and third tier troops. Summer of discontent. Where can I find supplies stateside?

a reply to: DarthTrader

I've noticed you keep coming up with scenarios where Putin is the master of all he sees and will wipe the floor with his enemies.

I hate to crush your dream, but Putin is struggling to cope with a country less than half the size of Russia, so what do you think would happen if he went against NATO ?
He's throwing everything he's got at this and still failing.
The only thing he has left are nukes and that is a guaranteed death sentence.

Nothing like a desperate attempt to fit the narrative.

One "bully" against the rest of the world are not very good odds.

And I don't see anyone backing down.

a reply to: DarthTrader

You know it doesn't work quite the way you think, right? There are tons of ways to shed load if need be, this is a complete non-issue for any slightly modern grid configuration.

Edit: clicked your link, it's a study of Sudan. My point about slightly modern grid configurations stands.

Ukraine is roughly 1/29th the size of Russia. In terms of area
In terms of population it’s about 1/3rd then size.
In terms of GDP Ukraine is 1/9th that of Russia.

Pretty impressive for sure, but it would have been a completely impossible feat if they didn’t have global support.

Not a fan of either countries governments, I think they suck actually. I don’t even like my own countries leaders.

The regular everyday people are great and deserve our support none of them asked for any of this.
My fathers side of the family immigrated to Canada from Ukraine, they left sometime around 1920-1925. Wasn’t a very nice place then but neither was much of the world.

a reply to: DAVID64

a reply to: DarthTrader

I assume because Putin likes life and civilization and doesn't want to live the rest of his days in a bunker underground while most of Russia is black glass?

Maybe?

As far as I know, he isn't a religious zealot with a suicide complex to be remembered as the guy who caused the deaths of millions of people and crashes civilization as we know it for all of us including his own family.

But hey, I could be wrong.

Again, he needs to cut a deal with the BRICS nations, mostly India for India to deploy peacekeepers to the Russian populated regions and pull out. Let India announce the solution and have the Indian's maintain a buffer zone and pull out whole. Otherwise Putin is stuck like we were in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Edit: It would cost "much less" to relocate any ethnic Russian citizens who want to get out to Russia than fighting this war. Do that and have the Indians offer a solution that Nato can't say no to.

That would be my move. Keep your power, keep your country, withdraw to a stronger position and claim a victory by "liberating" any ethnic Russian population.

Consider it a big hostage rescue.... Take the win.


I should have been a dictator, I am good at it.

Giving them all those weapons to Ukraine I'm glad Putin is a responsible man because a guy like hitler declared WW2 when the US gave all the wespons to Russia during the war.
Until now Russia is able to gain some ground even with all that west technologie throwned at them you have to be stupid to not think that that's a great feat for Russia. Its not just one country that Russia is fighting but the whole of NATO.

The link is an essay on the blackout issues in Sudan relating to improper maintenance and upkeep as well as missing safeguards. There are also some examples of blackouts in other countries.

Please show some parallels between the two systems that would prove that a single well placed missile will take out the power grids across EU.

Has no lessons been learned from the past in the design and maintenance of power grids?

How old is the system and where are the weak links in the system that will cause the chain of events as you picture this crisis?

What is keeping Putin from shooting that missile?

Thanks.

I'm just impressed st how many accounts they make to keep trying to spread this stuff KNOWING we have actual military personnel here and others in former positions to have some knowledge on what they speak

a reply to: Athetos

Not a fan of either countries governments, I think they suck actually.

You'll get no argument from me.
One is a corrupt govt who is a front for money laundering, ran by a professional comedian who plays piano with his penis and the other is ran by a corrupt ex KGB agent who mysteriously became one of the richest men on the planet after becoming President.

I have no sympathy for either.

The people, yes. Government, none.

If they want a war, let them fund it out of their own pockets.

Some of you all don't want to here this. But you need to hear it.

Russia is not loosing in Ukraine, and will inevitably win. They had numerous setbacks at first. Primarily because they thought Ukraine would come to the negotiation table. But now Ukraine is looking at a force they stand no chance against.

Russia is trying it's hardest to not draw NATO into this war any further than it already is. At this point Russia could steamroll Ukraine.

If Russia causes to much collateral damage to Ukraine or humiliates the west primarily America this could escalate further. Hence the appearance of a softer touch than how America usually invades a country.

a reply to: DarthTrader

Russia relies on the EU and many other countries for trade, and vice versa. Given that, it's pointless for Russia to destroy Europe.

OTOH, the U.S. has been borrowing and spending heavily since 1982, and it can only continue doing that if the world relies on the dollar as a reserve currency and even for oil trade.

Russia is part of BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa) and 34 other emerging markets (including Ukraine) which have been growing economically and will eventually dominate the global economy. They have been slowly moving away from the dollar and not supporting the U.S. For example, both Saudi Arabia and Israel, both military allies of the U.S., don't want to sanction Russia and want to remain neutral. Just recently, Saudi Arabia stated that they are considering using currencies beside the U.S. dollar for selling oil.

In short, what should concern you isn't Russia but the U.S. It manipulated Ukraine and allowed for a U.S-friendly comedian to take control. The same comedian has now enabled dictatorial powers, banning the opposition and allowing companies like BlackRock to take over.

Agreed. It’s always the common folk who suffer..


a reply to: DAVID64

originally posted by: NavyNut
Giving them all those weapons to Ukraine I'm glad Putin is a responsible man because a guy like hitler declared WW2 when the US gave all the wespons to Russia during the war.
Until now Russia is able to gain some ground even with all that west technologie throwned at them you have to be stupid to not think that that's a great feat for Russia. Its not just one country that Russia is fighting but the whole of NATO.

Ummm you should go back to the history books man.
And if you think the west has really thrown even close to the best we have to Ukrainian armed forces then man oh man.

Its funny how people keep obsessing over the equipment given... ukraine has picked up more tanks, and trucks and artillery pieces from russia than they had at the start of the conflict. except for specialty pieces I expect the giving up weapon systems will start to taper off as the Ukrainians finish maintenance on all the toys russia donated to them.

ETA: on topic, putin does that he would be dead in a matter of days and knows it. The one thing he values more than russian prominence is his own neck.

originally posted by: JAY1980
Some of you all don't want to here this. But you need to hear it.

Russia is not loosing in Ukraine, and will inevitably win. They had numerous setbacks at first. Primarily because they thought Ukraine would come to the negotiation table. But now Ukraine is looking at a force they stand no chance against.

Russia is trying it's hardest to not draw NATO into this war any further than it already is. At this point Russia could steamroll Ukraine.

If Russia causes to much collateral damage to Ukraine or humiliates the west primarily America this could escalate further. Hence the appearance of a softer touch than how America usually invades a country.

In WWII, the formula for how many troops an invading army needed to seize and occupy a country was one soldier for every 40 citizens of the occupied country. That's how many the US had in Germany at the end of the European campaign and was the number used for planning the invasion of Japan (before the atomic bombs were dropped). Ukraine has a population of about 41 million, so Russia would need an army of a little over 1 million to seize and hold Ukraine. And that's if the invading army is well trained and well equipped which, as we've seen, Russia is not.

Putin began this exercise with less than 10% of what he needed, so it's no surprise he got his a$$ handed to him. He was counting on a quick decapitation of the Zelenskiy government. Since that didn't happen, he's now talking about maybe raising 500,000 additional troops, or about half of what he would need--similarly poorly trained and equipped. Even if he did that, that would leave pretty much no reserve capacity to deal with other military situations around his borders. That's why, from the beginning, it was clear that Putin could bite Ukraine, but couldn't swallow it. If Russia was still the capitol of the Soviet empire and could call in troops from the vassal states, the situation might be different. But those days are gone.

It could be an acceptable outcome for Putin, if he can "freeze" the conflict the way he's done in other countries bordering Russia, and make the Ukrainian provinces bordering Russia into permanent battlefields that can neither be won nor lost. That would result in an uninhabitable buffer zone between NATO and Russia, but I doubt that Ukraine and NATO will allow that. It may take a couple more years, but Putin is not going to be able to make Ukraine his bi*tch. IMHO

a reply to: DAVID64

Well neither will Europe Destroy no matter the amount of sanctions they put.
One is thing they clear they are hoping a regime change happens.



They can still day dream as much they want on that.