IgG4 Antibodies After Repeated SARS-CoV-2 mRNA Vaccination

So, we have a very real possible problem here.

A year ago, we had a post that I cannot find about EU regulators warning of overuse of covid boosters damaging the immune system and causing a form of ADE with coronaviruses. It appears we may have that problem and more.

A recent study concludes mRNA doses raise IgG4 and they do not know why. Luckily this does not seem to be the case with viral-vector vaccines and is a problem with the mRNA delivery system.

I myself refused the mRNA, mainly because all mRNA vaccine trials for SARS 1 & MERS were failures, usually resulting in ADE or other major problems. Let's put it this way, they went through a lot of rodents.

IgG4-related disease: why is it so important?

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

IgG4-related disease (IgG4-RD) is a newly classified, immunological condition. It involves potentially multi-organ inflammation and fibrosis, characterized (in most cases) by elevated serum IgG4 levels and presenting as tissue edema with fibrosis and marked inflammatory infiltration of IgG4-positive plasma cells. IgG4-RD constitutes a number of conditions previously classified separately according to the organ affected, therefore, it occurs in various forms: autoimmune pancreatitis type 1 (AIP1), Mikulicz’s disease (MD), dacryoadenitis, sclerosing cholangitis, lymphadenopathy, and – less commonly – retroperitoneal fibrosis, Riedel’s thyroiditis, sclerosing sialadenitis (Kuttner’s tumor), and interstitial lung or kidney disease.

alexberenson.substack.com...

By now, you have probably heard about the Science Immunology paper showing that people who have received mRNA Covid vaccines produce more of an unusual antibody called IgG4 over time. A number of mRNA skeptics, including me, wrote about it last week.

But the reasons why the paper is so troubling may still not be clear. So here’s a (with luck) digestible explanation, starting with what is probably the most important question: what’s the worst-case scenario?

1: What’s the worst-case scenario?

Glad you asked.

The worst-case scenario: the mRNA shots lead to a doom loop, robbing vaccinated people of a crucial immune system tool against the coronavirus in a way that worsens with each new infection.

Thus, over time, the average severity of Covid infections will increase. People will take longer to get better once they’re infected. Hospitalizations and deaths will rise. The health-care system will come under worsening strain.

Oh, and some people may suffer nasty autoimmune side effects too, including pancreatitis, kidney disease, and even aneurysms.

Class switch towards non-inflammatory, spike-specific IgG4 antibodies after repeated SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccination

www.science.org...

Shortly after the initial two mRNA vaccine doses, the IgG response mainly consists of the pro-inflammatory subclasses IgG1 and IgG3. Here, we report that several months after the second vaccination, SARS-CoV-2-specific antibodies were increasingly composed of non-inflammatory IgG4, which were further boosted by a third mRNA vaccination and/or SARS-CoV-2 variant breakthrough infections. IgG4 antibodies among all spike-specific IgG antibodies rose on average from 0.04% shortly after the second vaccination to 19.27% late after the third vaccination. This induction of IgG4 antibodies was not observed after homologous or heterologous SARS-CoV-2 vaccination with adenoviral vectors.

We found an mRNA vaccine-driven expansion of memory B cells expressing IgG4. We detected spike-specific IgG4 antibodies in about half of the serum samples collected five to seven months after the second immunization, all of which did not show any IgG4 at earlier time points. For all other IgG subclasses, a decline was seen in the same period. Moreover, after the third immunization, IgG4 levels sharply increased and became detectable in almost all vaccinees.

In summary, our study demonstrates an mRNA vaccine-induced antiviral IgG4 antibody response appearing late after secondary immunization. Further investigations are needed to clarify the precise immunological mechanisms driving this response and to evaluate whether an IgG4-driven antibody response affects subsequent viral infections and booster vaccinations. This is not only relevant for potential future vaccine campaigns against SARS-CoV-2, but also for new mRNA-based vaccine developments against other pathogens.

Just an FYI. Some may want to get a blood test for IGg4 levels and related problems.

That sounds like a problem for the fully boosted.

a reply to: ketsuko

It may get worse with additional shots or infection.

Last Year:

Europe’s drug regulator warns excessive COVID boosters could lead to ‘problems with immune response,’ joining WHO in pushback

fortune.com...

Here’s another influential voice joining the growing pushback against overdoing it on the COVID booster front: the European Medicines Agency (EMA).

And the experiment is not over, boosters' pushers want to keep injecting humans too see how many boosters will take for the body to completely shut down.

Is still plenty of subjects that will keep getting the boost no matter what.

a reply to: marg6043

If I got one (and I may do so anyway), I would definitely go check my IgG4 out.

I am worried because either I am lucky as hell as to never been exposed to covid even though I go into the office every day, go shopping, take flights, etc. or I am immune.

I took the J&J, (viral vector vaccine delivery has been used since the 1990's) one and done but it is hard to believe that it worked "That Well".

Anything from the viral vector vaccine should be long gone by now.

Adenoviral vectors have many limitations. Because they are nonintegrating, the gene products are expressed from episomal DNA, and are lost after cell division; indeed they can be inactivated even in nondividing cells. Adenoviral vectors are therefore unsuited to long-term expression in a rapidly turning-over cell population.

Is there anything that can be done to reverse or mitigate the damage? This is horrible news!

This imbalance in igG antibodies can make the immune system go haywire, attacking your own cells while having a sub par response against legitimate targets. Its a pretty big deal.

originally posted by: nugget1
Is there anything that can be done to reverse or mitigate the damage? This is horrible news!

Low carb, low sugar and fasting I believe can help. If not it’s a pretty healthy thing to incorporate into your lifestyle.

I had the original two way back with necessary personnel.

I've never had any boosters.

I've also never had COVID. I've been negative every time I've tested. I have had a few minor illnesses since. The worst was a bronchial virus this past November that triggered bronchitis and a lingering cough but no other real symptoms.

a reply to: v1rtu0s0
I know you will probably know the following, but just adding for others who might not know.

Your G's are also the ones that send out the antibodies/killer cells et all, first.
All of which reside in our spleen, which is also what I call the 'cross over organ' between the circulatory and Lymphatic/immune systems.
The G's also trigger the T's which follow the killer cells and they live in the Thymus. The Thymus is 'the seat' of our immune system and sits directly behind your sternum. As an aside, hence the reason you see people sometimes smacking/punching their breast bone when they have a cough. It's not to loosen the mucous, although it does help, but it is our bodies automatic reaction to stimulate the thymus.

So, basically, if the G's are being messed with, then you are quite right, the immune system is fubar'ed because the wrong 'signal's' are going out.
Rainbows
Jane

Thank you for the excellent thread and the head's up. This is new territory and pro-vaccine and anti-vaccine opinions are rampant from these immunological studies. It's complex reading but worth it (see link below) and sheds light on not jumping on the 'lost hope' band wagon, just yet. So, I like to look at both sides of the coin, and offer you the other side for consideration.

Although clinical trials support the safety and efficacy of mRNA vaccine boosters against Covid, these trials have a short follow-up time of a few weeks or months. That said, we also have longer-term observational data — though they are prone to biases such as the healthy vaccinee effect — which show that mRNA vaccine boosters still protect against Covid, particularly severe Covid, even from Omicron.

Even if the IgG4 class switch results in less effective antibody-dependent responses, it doesn’t seem to translate to ineffective or negative vaccine effectiveness in real-life. After all, Irrgang et al.’s study did show that the antibodies still neutralized the spike proteins successfully despite the IgG4 class switch, and that those who had breakthrough Covid had it mild.

This is a widespread problem in translational research — translating and applying preclinical laboratory research to real-life clinical settings. At least in the field of therapeutics, only 5–10% of the most promising preclinical studies — those published in high-quality journals — are successfully translated into practical clinical applications.

The immune system is arguably the most complex biosystem outside of the brain. Therefore, a single component (IgG4 class switch) is unlikely to alter the immune function drastically. Sure, it might have a small effect biologically, but whether it is clinically meaningful is debatable. And Irrgang et al.’s study did not have any clinical data to say on this.

The anti-vaccine community claims that IgG4-related diseases (IgG4RD) will occur after mRNA vaccines based on Irrgang et al.’s findings. In IgG4RD, IgG4 antibodies infiltrate various organs, for unclear reasons, resulting in autoimmunity. Examples of IgG4RD include autoimmune pancreatitis, Riedel thyroiditis, and interstitial pneumonitis, among others.

But the logic that vaccines increasing IgG4 will lead to IgG4RD is flawed, as popular pro-vaccine voices on Twitter have also pointed out. For example, Edward Nirenberg and Sabina Vohra-Miller have written threads arguing that IgG4RD is caused by abnormal B-cell and T-cell responses, and IgG4 may actually be a control or protective mechanism against IgG4RD.

Also, by the same logic, beekeepers and allergic individuals on immunotherapy with dominant IgG4 response will suffer from IgG4RD. By the same logic, vaccines that increase T-cell responses (for immunity formation) will also lead to T-cell-mediated autoimmune diseases.

So, anti-spike IgG (synonymous with antibody) has a receptor that only binds to the spike protein and thus neutralizes it. Anti-spike IgG won’t and can’t do anything to cancer cells because they don’t have the receptor for a specific antigen of cancer cells. And Irrgang et al. found that the IgG4 class switch only happened to anti-spike IgG, not IgG in general.

medium.com...=eyJhbGciOiJSUz I1NiIsImtpZCI6ImQzN2FhNTA0MzgxMjkzN2ZlNDM5NjBjYTNjZjBlMjI4NGI2ZmMzNGQiLCJ0eXAiOiJKV1QifQ.eyJpc3MiOiJodHRwczovL2FjY291bnRzLmdvb2dsZS5jb20iLCJuYmYiOjE2N zM5NzY5MTYsImF1ZCI6IjIxNjI5NjAzNTgzNC1rMWs2cWUwNjBzMnRwMmEyamFtNGxqZGNtczAwc3R0Zy5hcHBzLmdvb2dsZXVzZXJjb250ZW50LmNvbSIsInN1YiI6IjEwOTA3MDMxNTk0NDg2NDA 4NjgyMSIsImVtYWlsIjoiam1hY2FudWVsQGdtYWlsLmNvbSIsImVtYWlsX3ZlcmlmaWVkIjp0cnVlLCJhenAiOiIyMTYyOTYwMzU4MzQtazFrNnFlMDYwczJ0cDJhMmphbTRsamRjbXMwMHN0dGcuY XBwcy5nb29nbGV1c2VyY29udGVudC5jb20iLCJuYW1lIjoiSmlsbCBNYWNhbnVlbCIsInBpY3R1cmUiOiJodHRwczovL2xoMy5nb29nbGV1c2VyY29udGVudC5jb20vYS9BRWRGVHA2S1NPMUZwWVJ laUl6eHlka2NpMFVPUUV5MmZwdmRsbXZBa1ZGTUZRPXM5Ni1jIiwiZ2l2ZW5fbmFtZSI6IkppbGwiLCJmYW1pbHlfbmFtZSI6Ik1hY2FudWVsIiwiaWF0IjoxNjczOTc3MjE2LCJleHAiOjE2NzM5O DA4MTYsImp0aSI6IjcxMWJkODIwZTI3MDkwNTA1ZDIwOTgwYmY1MzdjYjlhZmY5MThjMDAifQ.QIn1vgTBRn7o6Gg_aBV50dKnwaP5p2vx3gbAlbQMFaKUpZAopjLFo8XQyFRbo9iwiIYCSdnfXA5T 8fQb2uQniuEOXPtY9TjZfjT8UXrj5Spj9w76dHuBT6FwrN6zf3lt8w3KYHiu3wTUQsg7uxC50afp8pH5tKJDDtD3LWxhwL_1UTu5WRWiQfJiQFWC6TSpvsvciqIZLwmtuxtP11-v4b_x1mb7EnDCiS QbIR2rA_3RWtQYDLy096Vm7zXKfizNqtjBtfeiHLOUatKlD4k5MCaapTPEIlMa1G0sTztAQZJ0MPDCAR9OUX1PVLj6JYdInv7kWCLOfHLsI7g1DyhCHQ

So, anti-vaxxers will reason that the IgG4 class switch after repeated mRNA vaccination (Irrgang et al.) will cause IgG4RD (Patel et al., Tasnim et al., and Masset et al.) and cancer (Crescioli et al.), without telling you that the IgG4 class switch only applies to anti-spike IgG, not all IgG.

Good advice was given here by getting your IgG4 levels checked before proceeding or talk to your doctor, however I am not sure if doctor's are keeping up with the immunological studies, or not. Keep safe everyone.

originally posted by: quintessentone
Thank you for the excellent thread and the head's up. This is new territory and pro-vaccine and anti-vaccine opinions are rampant from these immunological studies. It's complex reading but worth it (see link below) and sheds light on not jumping on the 'lost hope' band wagon, just yet. So, I like to look at both sides of the coin, and offer you the other side for consideration.

Although clinical trials support the safety and efficacy of mRNA vaccine boosters against Covid, these trials have a short follow-up time of a few weeks or months. That said, we also have longer-term observational data — though they are prone to biases such as the healthy vaccinee effect — which show that mRNA vaccine boosters still protect against Covid, particularly severe Covid, even from Omicron.

Even if the IgG4 class switch results in less effective antibody-dependent responses, it doesn’t seem to translate to ineffective or negative vaccine effectiveness in real-life. After all, Irrgang et al.’s study did show that the antibodies still neutralized the spike proteins successfully despite the IgG4 class switch, and that those who had breakthrough Covid had it mild.

This is a widespread problem in translational research — translating and applying preclinical laboratory research to real-life clinical settings. At least in the field of therapeutics, only 5–10% of the most promising preclinical studies — those published in high-quality journals — are successfully translated into practical clinical applications.

The immune system is arguably the most complex biosystem outside of the brain. Therefore, a single component (IgG4 class switch) is unlikely to alter the immune function drastically. Sure, it might have a small effect biologically, but whether it is clinically meaningful is debatable. And Irrgang et al.’s study did not have any clinical data to say on this.

The anti-vaccine community claims that IgG4-related diseases (IgG4RD) will occur after mRNA vaccines based on Irrgang et al.’s findings. In IgG4RD, IgG4 antibodies infiltrate various organs, for unclear reasons, resulting in autoimmunity. Examples of IgG4RD include autoimmune pancreatitis, Riedel thyroiditis, and interstitial pneumonitis, among others.

But the logic that vaccines increasing IgG4 will lead to IgG4RD is flawed, as popular pro-vaccine voices on Twitter have also pointed out. For example, Edward Nirenberg and Sabina Vohra-Miller have written threads arguing that IgG4RD is caused by abnormal B-cell and T-cell responses, and IgG4 may actually be a control or protective mechanism against IgG4RD.

Also, by the same logic, beekeepers and allergic individuals on immunotherapy with dominant IgG4 response will suffer from IgG4RD. By the same logic, vaccines that increase T-cell responses (for immunity formation) will also lead to T-cell-mediated autoimmune diseases.

So, anti-spike IgG (synonymous with antibody) has a receptor that only binds to the spike protein and thus neutralizes it. Anti-spike IgG won’t and can’t do anything to cancer cells because they don’t have the receptor for a specific antigen of cancer cells. And Irrgang et al. found that the IgG4 class switch only happened to anti-spike IgG, not IgG in general.

medium.com...=eyJhbGciOiJSUz I1NiIsImtpZCI6ImQzN2FhNTA0MzgxMjkzN2ZlNDM5NjBjYTNjZjBlMjI4NGI2ZmMzNGQiLCJ0eXAiOiJKV1QifQ.eyJpc3MiOiJodHRwczovL2FjY291bnRzLmdvb2dsZS5jb20iLCJuYmYiOjE2N zM5NzY5MTYsImF1ZCI6IjIxNjI5NjAzNTgzNC1rMWs2cWUwNjBzMnRwMmEyamFtNGxqZGNtczAwc3R0Zy5hcHBzLmdvb2dsZXVzZXJjb250ZW50LmNvbSIsInN1YiI6IjEwOTA3MDMxNTk0NDg2NDA 4NjgyMSIsImVtYWlsIjoiam1hY2FudWVsQGdtYWlsLmNvbSIsImVtYWlsX3ZlcmlmaWVkIjp0cnVlLCJhenAiOiIyMTYyOTYwMzU4MzQtazFrNnFlMDYwczJ0cDJhMmphbTRsamRjbXMwMHN0dGcuY XBwcy5nb29nbGV1c2VyY29udGVudC5jb20iLCJuYW1lIjoiSmlsbCBNYWNhbnVlbCIsInBpY3R1cmUiOiJodHRwczovL2xoMy5nb29nbGV1c2VyY29udGVudC5jb20vYS9BRWRGVHA2S1NPMUZwWVJ laUl6eHlka2NpMFVPUUV5MmZwdmRsbXZBa1ZGTUZRPXM5Ni1jIiwiZ2l2ZW5fbmFtZSI6IkppbGwiLCJmYW1pbHlfbmFtZSI6Ik1hY2FudWVsIiwiaWF0IjoxNjczOTc3MjE2LCJleHAiOjE2NzM5O DA4MTYsImp0aSI6IjcxMWJkODIwZTI3MDkwNTA1ZDIwOTgwYmY1MzdjYjlhZmY5MThjMDAifQ.QIn1vgTBRn7o6Gg_aBV50dKnwaP5p2vx3gbAlbQMFaKUpZAopjLFo8XQyFRbo9iwiIYCSdnfXA5T 8fQb2uQniuEOXPtY9TjZfjT8UXrj5Spj9w76dHuBT6FwrN6zf3lt8w3KYHiu3wTUQsg7uxC50afp8pH5tKJDDtD3LWxhwL_1UTu5WRWiQfJiQFWC6TSpvsvciqIZLwmtuxtP11-v4b_x1mb7EnDCiS QbIR2rA_3RWtQYDLy096Vm7zXKfizNqtjBtfeiHLOUatKlD4k5MCaapTPEIlMa1G0sTztAQZJ0MPDCAR9OUX1PVLj6JYdInv7kWCLOfHLsI7g1DyhCHQ

So, anti-vaxxers will reason that the IgG4 class switch after repeated mRNA vaccination (Irrgang et al.) will cause IgG4RD (Patel et al., Tasnim et al., and Masset et al.) and cancer (Crescioli et al.), without telling you that the IgG4 class switch only applies to anti-spike IgG, not all IgG.

Good advice was given here by getting your IgG4 levels checked before proceeding or talk to your doctor, however I am not sure if doctor's are keeping up with the immunological studies, or not. Keep safe everyone.

Anyone who questions an experimental gene therapy which isn't even a vaccine is an "anti vaxxer."

Have you ever posted a comment that doesn't have the word "anti vaxxer" in it?

Also that pejorative doesn't make any sense.

1. It's not a "vaccine."
2. Lets say its a "vaccine," being against 1 vaccine doesn't mean you're against all of them. That's like saying someone is anti car is they don't like kia's.

It's a tired and overused term that focuses on ideology and not science. It's name calling, like when you cry about people on here calling you names--same thing.

Plus, dude, all you do is post mainstream sources that are laden with conflicts of interest. Polithack and Reuters. Those are all huge jokes for source material.

originally posted by: infolurker
So, we have a very real possible problem here.

A year ago, we had a post that I cannot find about EU regulators warning of overuse of covid boosters damaging the immune system and causing a form of ADE with coronaviruses. It appears we may have that problem and more.

A recent study concludes mRNA doses raise IgG4 and they do not know why. Luckily this does not seem to be the case with viral-vector vaccines and is a problem with the mRNA delivery system.

I myself refused the mRNA, mainly because all mRNA vaccine trials for SARS 1 & MERS were failures, usually resulting in ADE or other major problems. Let's put it this way, they went through a lot of rodents.

IgG4-related disease: why is it so important?

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

IgG4-related disease (IgG4-RD) is a newly classified, immunological condition. It involves potentially multi-organ inflammation and fibrosis, characterized (in most cases) by elevated serum IgG4 levels and presenting as tissue edema with fibrosis and marked inflammatory infiltration of IgG4-positive plasma cells. IgG4-RD constitutes a number of conditions previously classified separately according to the organ affected, therefore, it occurs in various forms: autoimmune pancreatitis type 1 (AIP1), Mikulicz’s disease (MD), dacryoadenitis, sclerosing cholangitis, lymphadenopathy, and – less commonly – retroperitoneal fibrosis, Riedel’s thyroiditis, sclerosing sialadenitis (Kuttner’s tumor), and interstitial lung or kidney disease.

alexberenson.substack.com...

By now, you have probably heard about the Science Immunology paper showing that people who have received mRNA Covid vaccines produce more of an unusual antibody called IgG4 over time. A number of mRNA skeptics, including me, wrote about it last week.

But the reasons why the paper is so troubling may still not be clear. So here’s a (with luck) digestible explanation, starting with what is probably the most important question: what’s the worst-case scenario?

1: What’s the worst-case scenario?

Glad you asked.

The worst-case scenario: the mRNA shots lead to a doom loop, robbing vaccinated people of a crucial immune system tool against the coronavirus in a way that worsens with each new infection.

Thus, over time, the average severity of Covid infections will increase. People will take longer to get better once they’re infected. Hospitalizations and deaths will rise. The health-care system will come under worsening strain.

Oh, and some people may suffer nasty autoimmune side effects too, including pancreatitis, kidney disease, and even aneurysms.

Class switch towards non-inflammatory, spike-specific IgG4 antibodies after repeated SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccination

www.science.org...

Shortly after the initial two mRNA vaccine doses, the IgG response mainly consists of the pro-inflammatory subclasses IgG1 and IgG3. Here, we report that several months after the second vaccination, SARS-CoV-2-specific antibodies were increasingly composed of non-inflammatory IgG4, which were further boosted by a third mRNA vaccination and/or SARS-CoV-2 variant breakthrough infections. IgG4 antibodies among all spike-specific IgG antibodies rose on average from 0.04% shortly after the second vaccination to 19.27% late after the third vaccination. This induction of IgG4 antibodies was not observed after homologous or heterologous SARS-CoV-2 vaccination with adenoviral vectors.

We found an mRNA vaccine-driven expansion of memory B cells expressing IgG4. We detected spike-specific IgG4 antibodies in about half of the serum samples collected five to seven months after the second immunization, all of which did not show any IgG4 at earlier time points. For all other IgG subclasses, a decline was seen in the same period. Moreover, after the third immunization, IgG4 levels sharply increased and became detectable in almost all vaccinees.

In summary, our study demonstrates an mRNA vaccine-induced antiviral IgG4 antibody response appearing late after secondary immunization. Further investigations are needed to clarify the precise immunological mechanisms driving this response and to evaluate whether an IgG4-driven antibody response affects subsequent viral infections and booster vaccinations. This is not only relevant for potential future vaccine campaigns against SARS-CoV-2, but also for new mRNA-based vaccine developments against other pathogens.

Just an FYI. Some may want to get a blood test for IGg4 levels and related problems.

Repeated immune responses will damage the immune system. This is a well known reality.

And it has been recorded on much of the research as well as in these threads. I do remember citing a few articles including the one you have here from science.org on one of the threads.


www.eugyppius.com...

Cleveland study conducted to demonstrate the clinical effectiveness of the bivalent vaccines accidentally finds that the risk of Covid-19 infection increases with each prior vaccination

Very good thread by the way.

originally posted by: v1rtu0s0

originally posted by: quintessentone
Thank you for the excellent thread and the head's up. This is new territory and pro-vaccine and anti-vaccine opinions are rampant from these immunological studies. It's complex reading but worth it (see link below) and sheds light on not jumping on the 'lost hope' band wagon, just yet. So, I like to look at both sides of the coin, and offer you the other side for consideration.

Although clinical trials support the safety and efficacy of mRNA vaccine boosters against Covid, these trials have a short follow-up time of a few weeks or months. That said, we also have longer-term observational data — though they are prone to biases such as the healthy vaccinee effect — which show that mRNA vaccine boosters still protect against Covid, particularly severe Covid, even from Omicron.

Even if the IgG4 class switch results in less effective antibody-dependent responses, it doesn’t seem to translate to ineffective or negative vaccine effectiveness in real-life. After all, Irrgang et al.’s study did show that the antibodies still neutralized the spike proteins successfully despite the IgG4 class switch, and that those who had breakthrough Covid had it mild.

This is a widespread problem in translational research — translating and applying preclinical laboratory research to real-life clinical settings. At least in the field of therapeutics, only 5–10% of the most promising preclinical studies — those published in high-quality journals — are successfully translated into practical clinical applications.

The immune system is arguably the most complex biosystem outside of the brain. Therefore, a single component (IgG4 class switch) is unlikely to alter the immune function drastically. Sure, it might have a small effect biologically, but whether it is clinically meaningful is debatable. And Irrgang et al.’s study did not have any clinical data to say on this.

The anti-vaccine community claims that IgG4-related diseases (IgG4RD) will occur after mRNA vaccines based on Irrgang et al.’s findings. In IgG4RD, IgG4 antibodies infiltrate various organs, for unclear reasons, resulting in autoimmunity. Examples of IgG4RD include autoimmune pancreatitis, Riedel thyroiditis, and interstitial pneumonitis, among others.

But the logic that vaccines increasing IgG4 will lead to IgG4RD is flawed, as popular pro-vaccine voices on Twitter have also pointed out. For example, Edward Nirenberg and Sabina Vohra-Miller have written threads arguing that IgG4RD is caused by abnormal B-cell and T-cell responses, and IgG4 may actually be a control or protective mechanism against IgG4RD.

Also, by the same logic, beekeepers and allergic individuals on immunotherapy with dominant IgG4 response will suffer from IgG4RD. By the same logic, vaccines that increase T-cell responses (for immunity formation) will also lead to T-cell-mediated autoimmune diseases.

So, anti-spike IgG (synonymous with antibody) has a receptor that only binds to the spike protein and thus neutralizes it. Anti-spike IgG won’t and can’t do anything to cancer cells because they don’t have the receptor for a specific antigen of cancer cells. And Irrgang et al. found that the IgG4 class switch only happened to anti-spike IgG, not IgG in general.

medium.com...=eyJhbGciOiJSUz I1NiIsImtpZCI6ImQzN2FhNTA0MzgxMjkzN2ZlNDM5NjBjYTNjZjBlMjI4NGI2ZmMzNGQiLCJ0eXAiOiJKV1QifQ.eyJpc3MiOiJodHRwczovL2FjY291bnRzLmdvb2dsZS5jb20iLCJuYmYiOjE2N zM5NzY5MTYsImF1ZCI6IjIxNjI5NjAzNTgzNC1rMWs2cWUwNjBzMnRwMmEyamFtNGxqZGNtczAwc3R0Zy5hcHBzLmdvb2dsZXVzZXJjb250ZW50LmNvbSIsInN1YiI6IjEwOTA3MDMxNTk0NDg2NDA 4NjgyMSIsImVtYWlsIjoiam1hY2FudWVsQGdtYWlsLmNvbSIsImVtYWlsX3ZlcmlmaWVkIjp0cnVlLCJhenAiOiIyMTYyOTYwMzU4MzQtazFrNnFlMDYwczJ0cDJhMmphbTRsamRjbXMwMHN0dGcuY XBwcy5nb29nbGV1c2VyY29udGVudC5jb20iLCJuYW1lIjoiSmlsbCBNYWNhbnVlbCIsInBpY3R1cmUiOiJodHRwczovL2xoMy5nb29nbGV1c2VyY29udGVudC5jb20vYS9BRWRGVHA2S1NPMUZwWVJ laUl6eHlka2NpMFVPUUV5MmZwdmRsbXZBa1ZGTUZRPXM5Ni1jIiwiZ2l2ZW5fbmFtZSI6IkppbGwiLCJmYW1pbHlfbmFtZSI6Ik1hY2FudWVsIiwiaWF0IjoxNjczOTc3MjE2LCJleHAiOjE2NzM5O DA4MTYsImp0aSI6IjcxMWJkODIwZTI3MDkwNTA1ZDIwOTgwYmY1MzdjYjlhZmY5MThjMDAifQ.QIn1vgTBRn7o6Gg_aBV50dKnwaP5p2vx3gbAlbQMFaKUpZAopjLFo8XQyFRbo9iwiIYCSdnfXA5T 8fQb2uQniuEOXPtY9TjZfjT8UXrj5Spj9w76dHuBT6FwrN6zf3lt8w3KYHiu3wTUQsg7uxC50afp8pH5tKJDDtD3LWxhwL_1UTu5WRWiQfJiQFWC6TSpvsvciqIZLwmtuxtP11-v4b_x1mb7EnDCiS QbIR2rA_3RWtQYDLy096Vm7zXKfizNqtjBtfeiHLOUatKlD4k5MCaapTPEIlMa1G0sTztAQZJ0MPDCAR9OUX1PVLj6JYdInv7kWCLOfHLsI7g1DyhCHQ

So, anti-vaxxers will reason that the IgG4 class switch after repeated mRNA vaccination (Irrgang et al.) will cause IgG4RD (Patel et al., Tasnim et al., and Masset et al.) and cancer (Crescioli et al.), without telling you that the IgG4 class switch only applies to anti-spike IgG, not all IgG.

Good advice was given here by getting your IgG4 levels checked before proceeding or talk to your doctor, however I am not sure if doctor's are keeping up with the immunological studies, or not. Keep safe everyone.

Anyone who questions an experimental gene therapy which isn't even a vaccine is an "anti vaxxer."

Have you ever posted a comment that doesn't have the word "anti vaxxer" in it?

Also that pejorative doesn't make any sense.

1. It's not a "vaccine."
2. Lets say its a "vaccine," being against 1 vaccine doesn't mean you're against all of them. That's like saying someone is anti car is they don't like kia's.

It's a tired and overused term that focuses on ideology and not science. It's name calling, like when you cry about people on here calling you names--same thing.

Plus, dude, all you do is post mainstream sources that are laden with conflicts of interest. Polithack and Reuters. Those are all huge jokes for source material.

I was about to answer the post my the other member but you were quick to pick on the main points I wanted to make.

a reply to: quintessentone

I don't know what the purpose of your post is. You are trying to argue that the study is controversial?? And you posted a link that allegedly claims the study is controversial.

Very recently you were going about herd immunity and claimed that we need to get vaccinated to achieve herd immunity or we are close to herd immunity. But your claim has been refuted several times and it has been debunked long time ago.

In the meantime you don't even use common sense to support your claim. Herd immunity is achieved when we become immune to future Infections. Have we become immune to future infections? Clearly not do there is no herd immunity to SARS-CoV-2.

The most hilarious aspect of your posting was the link you provided about liver damage! This had nothing to with any of the conversations around or with herd immunity. Your are just linking irrelevant pieces.


Clearly in this case you are trying to copy the article you have posted without understanding what the study is about and claiming that you want to examine both sides of the coin when in reality you are engaging in vaccine apologetics and denialism of reality as well as defending the pharmaceuticals.


Repeated vaccinations have an impact in the immune system by definition. You don't need a study for this. Just as you don't need a study for herd immunity which cannot be achieved via vaccinations.

www.eugyppius.com...

Cleveland study conducted to demonstrate the clinical effectiveness of the bivalent vaccines accidentally finds that the risk of Covid-19 infection increases with each prior vaccination

The only good thing about this is that the number of shots you get are a direct correlation to your position on the liberal/conservative scale.

originally posted by: iwanttobelieve70
The only good thing about this is that the number of shots you get are a direct correlation to your position on the liberal/conservative scale.

I see what is going on here at ATS as CT vs. evidence-based science (trust issues), although in this case (this specific topic being extremely complex and I doubt any of us here really have a good grasp of the processes within the immune system), but, yes, it seems everything is being politicized too these days.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: iwanttobelieve70
The only good thing about this is that the number of shots you get are a direct correlation to your position on the liberal/conservative scale.

I see what is going on here at ATS as CT vs. evidence-based science (trust issues), although in this case (this specific topic being extremely complex and I doubt any of us here really have a good grasp of the processes within the immune system), but, yes, it seems everything is being politicized too these days.

When the manufacturers want to hide the data for 75 years it's a huge red flag that something's not quite right-or it should be.

The 'science' won't have enough data for at least another 8 years, and there will be a LOT of changes in 'scientific fact' between now and then.

a reply to: nugget1

A lot of changes in population too, I reckon. Unfortunately

originally posted by: nugget1

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: iwanttobelieve70
The only good thing about this is that the number of shots you get are a direct correlation to your position on the liberal/conservative scale.

I see what is going on here at ATS as CT vs. evidence-based science (trust issues), although in this case (this specific topic being extremely complex and I doubt any of us here really have a good grasp of the processes within the immune system), but, yes, it seems everything is being politicized too these days.

When the manufacturers want to hide the data for 75 years it's a huge red flag that something's not quite right-or it should be.

The 'science' won't have enough data for at least another 8 years, and there will be a LOT of changes in 'scientific fact' between now and then.

It's not that long but I do agree they are behind somewhat and will be moreso in the future if the Covid virus mutates from the original Omicron variant. Then we are in a great deal of trouble.