Is Japan losing to Covid now

originally posted by: RAY1990
a reply to: Ksihkehe

There's different vaccines and some of them don't use mRNA technology. I'm not so sure the long term effects are due to vaccines or the actual virus.

I'm unaware of medical services anywhere that'll reveal which drugs or which vaccine a person took during their lifetime.

Medical records should include the vaccine manufacturer, lot, and batch number. I can't speak for other countries, but I would imagine most are like the US also have an independent vaccine registry so that people have that available at any provider where they might get services.

The vast majority of recent studies are for the mRNA vaccines and I don't know that they're even giving boosters other than those. The J&J was allegedly a one and done I believe, but it wasn't effective. None of the vaccines for a coronavirus have ever been successful and they weren't deployed for a reason.

There are plenty of people that have not had a clinically significant case of COVID that have had vaccine side-effects. Serotesting has shown that most people have probably had some immunity from exposure at this point. The best way to differentiate between it being unrelated to vax or a side-effect from some post-infection syndrome (which is actually not new and exists with other viral infections) would be for them to release vaccination status with mortality data or include it in some studies of long covid. It's not restricted from use for study and there are specific exemptions to HIPAA for stripping personal data out. They are refusing to do so and have been lagging their data releases for a while.

Given that the vaccines are only effective temporarily for the variant they are designed for and each dose increases your chance of future infection, then even "long COVID" in the vaccinated can be considered a potentially vaccination related impact. The math gets complicated unless you completely exclude that if you have a 50% lower risk of infection unvaccinated it has to be measured somehow in long covid data, since half those vaccinated people wouldn't have had the infection at all.

What I have seen so far with withholding data and inflating fear in the population it has been solely focused on preventing data that is harmful to pharma getting released, to support some preemptive policy decision found to be in error, or to shift blame on to something else disproportionately to it's actual impact. In all likelihood I believe that while long COVID may be entirely legitimate independent of vaccines, it's probably similar to and not much worse than other post-viral syndromes in all but the vaccinated. They inflate the severity and frequency by talking about it often without ever mentioning the vaccines, but the vaccines have an incredibly high rate of serious averse events and they very much want something to blame even if there is synergy between the two things. In any event nothing like this happens in a vacuum and there needs to be honest anlysis of vaccines role in the syndrome.

The next stage of denial will be that it's much worse in the unvaccinated. When they fail to prove that if anybody is still paying attention, they'll say it's mostly from COVID infection not the vaccine, but the vaccine produces the most damaging part of the virus as far as we know. The final stage when we have 10 years of data, should enough of us resist vaccination, will be that it's mostly mild in the unvaccinated who will rarely get ill from future strains.

There are other reasons to believe it's mostly vaccine related and more severe for them. Mainly that the vaccines cause increased spike protein numbers versus natural infection, that they may induce immune tolerance after repeated doses allowing large numbers of spike proteins to cause damage without symptoms, and the immune system is dysfunctional after each dose allowing for other complications and cumulative systemic failures.

I'm definitely not in the camp that thinks post-COVID isn't a thing, but I think the evidence that the severity is not significantly increased in the vaccinated won't ever be found. They're trying to mitigate this vaccine disaster and I don't really know what the end game is, but their refusal at every step to acknowledge reality is only fueling people that deny COVID exists or that post-COVID syndrome is real. There's going to be a spike in preventable disease in 10 years that they'll blame on anti-vaxers, but in reality their handling of this right now is causing it and it's a known effect when you cultivate distrust by trying to game the population and hide data.

Most people are fine after the first dose, but each dose seems to show a decrease in how many are fine. Most isn't a great term to have to use for a medical intervention, especially when it doesn't work well. There is still no long term data, cancers are spiking at an incredible rate, and they refuse to release vaccine status. The thing about immune system dysfunction is that it isn't visible so you can't really say if your vaccinated friends are responding normally to a novel infection. What looks like a normal immune response may not be. Somebody with the sniffles for three days and then clear, if they have immune tolerance, may have spike proteins raging through their system with little outward signs for weeks and this is a very possible impact from the IgG4 response showing after the third booster. This was a very dangerous game they've played with people's lives.

The thing is even if it had nothing to do with vaccines, there is no real evidence that the vaccines are offering anything but partial temporary protection anyway. You're not sparing yourself any risk by adding a lifetime of unknowns from injections every six months or year. It's still early and already evidence points toward making it worse or increasing your risk of future infection. People with severe immune impairments probably are at just as much risk or more, partcularly as boosters increase in number, because I don't believe they're given enough benefit to double their infection risk over time. It's trending worse.

originally posted by: Ksihkehe
None of the vaccines for a coronavirus have ever been successful and they weren't deployed for a reason.

So why did the hospital and death rates drop after the vaccine rolled out? Why were countries like Isriel first to vaccinate their whole country have extremely low numbers even with a high percentage of older people? People say the vaccines didn't work but everything says they did. As example, Myocarditis with the vaccine is 2 times higher than normal in younger males, but 80 times higher with the virus. There are studies coming out with long term COVID issues. People want to suggest a limited number of vaccines protein is worse than the actual virus that is like mass producing the protein up to weeks flooding your whole body with it.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Ksihkehe
None of the vaccines for a coronavirus have ever been successful and they weren't deployed for a reason.

So why did the hospital and death rates drop after the vaccine rolled out? Why were countries like Isriel first to vaccinate their whole country have extremely low numbers even with a high percentage of older people? People say the vaccines didn't work but everything says they did. As example, Myocarditis with the vaccine is 2 times higher than normal in younger males, but 80 times higher with the virus. There are studies coming out with long term COVID issues. People want to suggest a limited number of vaccines protein is worse than the actual virus that is like mass producing the protein up to weeks flooding your whole body with it.

And 20 million lives saved in the first year of the pandemic is a proven fact.

The scientists estimated that 18.1 million deaths would have occurred during the study period without vaccination. Of those, the model estimated that vaccination prevented 14.4 million deaths, or 79%. When they accounted for under-reporting, however, they found that COVID vaccination prevented an estimated 19.8 million deaths out of a total of 31.4 million potential deaths that would have occurred without vaccination—a reduction of 63%.

www.cidrap.umn.edu...

a reply to: musicismagic

as i understand it the numbers will even themselves out over time.. so those with low rates at one point will even out at other points.. for those like china/new Zealand who went with the zero covid approach it could be costly at ties others are back to normal..

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Ksihkehe
None of the vaccines for a coronavirus have ever been successful and they weren't deployed for a reason.

So why did the hospital and death rates drop after the vaccine rolled out? Why were countries like Isriel first to vaccinate their whole country have extremely low numbers even with a high percentage of older people?

Since you provided no source for the asinine claim that COVID increases the risk of myocarditis in young males x80 and since they are at virtually no risk of serious illness from COVID prior to vaccination interfering with their natural immune response, I'll just address your "proof" it works from Israel.

The vaccines were rolled out in Israel on December 20, 2020 and the five largest spikes in deaths occured after. Does this look like what you're claiming? That second spike starts ramping up just after they deployed and then there are four more continuing to present. If they continue to provide their "highly effective" boosters they will continue to see spikes ad infinitum with deaths increasingly being from those at no demographic risk from COVID prior to taking experimental "vaccines" repeatedly.


Could it be that you are not actually doing any research and are parroting bs you get from biased sources? A normal chart for mortality from a novel virus with no "vaccination" would not look like this and it's because the "vaccination" has limited efficacy, is causing variants to proliferate in vaccinated incubators, and is hampering robust immune response to future infections. (increased risk of infection for every shot taken, which I'm linking to you yet again and you will again disregard without any rational consideration)


I'm not going to keep arguing with you no matter how bunched up your panties get over my "disinformation", which comes from my decade in public health and five years specifically running emergency response. You are not vetting the claims you make and I'm not going to waste my time disproving things you will subsequently claim you don't care about anyway. You will not change your mind and I don't care. You will develop some excuse in your mind like you have for every other lie you blindly accepted. This blatantly false claim you parroted without a shred of evidence is clearly from somebody using very selective bits of data. It's proof to anybody reading that you are nothing more than a fountain of ignorance spewing out spoon-fed nonsense from a well-funded pharmaceutical astroturfing campaign.

What is being left out of these discussions is what effects on the immune system does the actual Covid-19 virus and Covid-19 vaccines do to T-cell responses.

“We know that COVID blocks the production of interferon, which is a red flag that cells wave when they’re being attacked. We know that there are other kinds of immune system impairment with COVID, and it’s going to take a little while to really try and explain that more clearly,” he said. “But it seems to be what’s going on, and it certainly fits the facts.”

Furness did stress, however, that it isn’t yet clear how much damage COVID-19 may be doing and what long-term effects this could have.

Dawn Bowdish, a professor of medicine and a Canada Research Chair in aging and immunity at McMaster University, has been studying the impact of COVID-19 on immune function and says there is evidence that the virus is affecting immune cells, known as T-cells, for reasons that are not fully understood.

T-cells are a type of white blood cell that protect the body from infection

People who have a severe COVID-19 infection often see a large drop in the number of T-cells in their body and some of these patients don’t see these T-cells return in the same ways, she said. But how this affects each patient can be very different, including among people who develop long COVID, she added.

“Some people develop a very autoimmune phenotype,” she said.

“But when people don’t have long COVID, it’s those people in the middle, the people who maybe had disease that wasn’t severe enough to land them in the hospital, that are really the ones that are quite intriguing because some of them appear to have some immune changes and others seem to be fine.”

One of the many things that remains unclear is how important these changes to the immune system are in the long run, Bowdish said.

There is a growing body of evidence showing that COVID survivors, even those who have only suffered a mild infection, are more likely to experience heart attacks, strokes and that they are more likely to visit their family doctors for unrelated ailments including mental health disorders, she said.

globalnews.ca...

Killer T-cells.



Covid-19 vaccines and T-cell responses.



It's very complicated.

originally posted by: Ksihkehe

Since you provided no source for the asinine claim that COVID increases the risk of myocarditis in young males x80 and since they are at virtually no risk of serious illness from COVID prior to vaccination interfering with their natural immune response, I'll just address your "proof" it works from Israel.

Normal myocarditis is 1 to 2 per 100,000, The vaccine is 4 per 100,000 (the 84% increase everyone to spewing), the virus is 150 per 100,000 which is like x80+ normal...

five largest spikes in deaths occured after.[/URL] Does this look like what you're claiming? That second spike starts ramping up just after they deployed and then there are four more continuing to present. If they continue to provide their "highly effective" boosters they will continue to see spikes ad infinitum with deaths increasingly being from those at no demographic risk from COVID prior to taking experimental "vaccines" repeatedly.

Everyone has spikes, but Israel was like .03% death rate in a very international country (i.e. not isolated), highly dense population with very large older high-risk groups. America was like 2% and places like Mexico was 4.6%

I got my info from Asmodeus3's links. I figure I would use your side's sources so someone wouldn't say

It's proof to anybody reading that you are nothing more than a fountain of ignorance spewing out spoon-fed nonsense from a well-funded pharmaceutical astroturfing campaign.

I hope you breathed after saying all that...

www.medrxiv.org...

sciencebasedmedicine.org...

originally posted by: Xtrozero
originally posted by: Ksihkehe
I hope you breathed after saying all that...

My apologies for making a large post with a bunch of information you were going to ignore anyway. After this I'll just do one incohesive paragraph with ideas thrown together. Long posts that explain things allow people to make up their mind if I know what I'm talking about, but those are people that probably don't believe when they're told everything is "settled science". I responded to two people before you had to interject. One is a medical professional that I sincerely encouraged to look past some of the institutional players that are no longer trustworthy and the other isn't changing his mind. That you don't like my opinion matters not a whit. My opinion probably is just as irrelevant to them. They're adults that I like and will make their own choices.

There is no amount of explaining that will change your mind. You still are ignoring that each dose increases the risk of infection and the obvious implication, based on your own claim that COVID causes an 80 fold increase in the risk of myocarditis, that the vaccine will then increase the risk of myocarditis by whatever fractional increase there is in the risk of infection. It's not hard to understand, but spending 15 minutes a day consuming what you're told isn't ever going to teach you what they don't want you to be looking at. Keep the blinders on, disease science is totally uncomplicated and the simple explanations they give are totally comprehensive without a detail left out.

That the pharmaceutical companies would like to ignore basic inference while they juggle their unsupported claims to justify deploying to low risk demographics and that you don't understand inference is not a problem I can solve.

The risk of death from COVID in all people under 30 is .00027% per case based on the number of cases and deaths. This has resulted in around 8,100 deaths out of a population of about 120 million. There is no vaccine that increases risk of infection, has no similar class of drug with long term study, and doesn't prevent transmission, that can be ethically justified by any previous standard for that demographic risk.

I am not arguing the minutiae of COVID mycarditis versus vaccine myocarditis because even if your number is correct, by simple inference, the vaccines increase the risk of COVID induced myocarditis.

Feel free to ignore that. Feel free to ignore that myocarditis is only one of dozens of potentially serious averse events listed on the vaccine inserts. Feel free to ignore that I already linked to you a rate of serious averse events at 1 in 1000. I also linked you to two decade old evidence showing it has always been considered underreported and was always mandated in spite of your unsourced claim otherwise. This is around 370x higher risk of serious adverse events for under 30s from the vaccine than death from the disease even at the 1 in 1,000, and it doesn't account for the increased risk of COVID induced myocarditis from increaeed risk of COVID from vaccination. At these numbers its almost an irrelevant drop in the bucket. This is not a couple things, it's an overwhelming amount of data. I am not doing the math and linking the 14 different urls I had to harvest it from because they'll be ignored or you'll do some basic math to magically disprove it in your head.

The spike in IgG4 has been ignored. The non-COVID excess mortality has been ignored. The immune system being locked in to old variants has been ignored. The existence of basic medical ethics has been ignored. The failure of the vaccines to pass any kind of risk/benefit analysis in people under 18 has been ignored. The biolipids leaving the injection site and targeting organs resulting in immune targeting of those tissues has been ignored. The blood clots have been ignored and hardly even investigated except by morticians that are summarily dismissed. The manipulation of trial data has been ignored. The string of lies based on the manipulation of trial data has been ignored. That in assessing unknown risk you don't lean "optimistic" absent evidence has been totally ignored. That pure opinion is being peddled as absolute fact by "officials" is ignored. There are at least another dozen things I have never even mentioned here because they're complicated and will be ignored. Any information I have is wrong irrespective of evidence, because "anti-vax bad". It doesn't matter if it's understood, it's wrong and there need be no effort to learn about it.

Why do you expect me to argue a single adverse event versus the risk of causing that same adverse event when the vaccines increase the risk of COVID anyway? All these petty arguments in a vacuum completely ignore the rest of the data and allow people that are incapable of processing the big picture, even know what the picture should look like, to derail otherwise simple relaying of information. I don't care if you can spend three pages to inject some reasonable doubt into five independent things, it's not changing the trajectory of the whole mass. I don't spend a bunch of time arguing things that I don't have a very comprehensive understanding of. If you want to, have fun with being wrong a lot.

I can't give years of education to somebody that doesn't care and doesn't want to know. You want to believe what you want to believe and you will ignore dozens of things you can't explain to maintain your comfy beliefs. This is the last time, which I'm saying for like the fifth time, and this is always how it ends with you. You have no idea what you don't know, hence throwing out this 80x increase without any regard for the increased risk of infection from vaccination. The math isn't really hard here, 2+2= they withhold data when it isn't convenient to their continued promotion of a corporate product they approved without sufficient justification. Feel free to find a similar therapeutic that they had to change a whole classification to make fit, with a similarly abysmal track record, that they spent two years suppressing discussion of, that has gone on to be a success. Happy hunting.

If you want to be taken seriously then you could simply concede any one of the dozens of completely valid and documented issues I've linked previously. None that wants to incessantly argue will. You will ignore them if you can't explain it or don't understand the significance, but will never just make a simple admission "I didn't know about that and I'd like to learn the significance". Instead it's all ignored and whatever you already believed remains entirely untarnished.

The great news is that a large portion of these junk vaccines seem almost totally void of the actual vaccine, through poor manufacturing standards or improper handling many lives are probably being saved. I'm sure you'll not believe this either and no amount of historical evidence of failure in deep cold chain will convince you otherwise.

Enjoy leapfrogging from one poorly framed defense to the next as more studies come out. I said it would get worse when there were no adverse events admitted and they were still claiming two shots is it. It got worse to the tune of dozens of adverse events and 3 months efficacy. It will continue to get worse as long as they continue deployment.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Ksihkehe
None of the vaccines for a coronavirus have ever been successful and they weren't deployed for a reason.

So why did the hospital and death rates drop after the vaccine rolled out? Why were countries like Isriel first to vaccinate their whole country have extremely low numbers even with a high percentage of older people? People say the vaccines didn't work but everything says they did. As example, Myocarditis with the vaccine is 2 times higher than normal in younger males, but 80 times higher with the virus. There are studies coming out with long term COVID issues. People want to suggest a limited number of vaccines protein is worse than the actual virus that is like mass producing the protein up to weeks flooding your whole body with it.

What death rates? All cause mortality is up 20% around the world. Or do you mean the ones they said died with covid instead of died from? Once you parse out the ones they lied about, it's only 6% of those who died from it while the flu took a vacation that year. For you it's only about covid deaths. Unfortunately public health doesn't work that way, it's not all about one thing. But because they made it so, you only focus on that and ignore the elephant in the room with all cause mortality through the roof.

In 2020 they wouldn't shut up about every covid death legit or not and now with the massive increase in all cause mortality they don't say a word. So it is really only about political motive and not actually about public health.

originally posted by: Ksihkehe
based on your own claim that COVID causes an 80 fold increase in the risk of myocarditis, that the vaccine will then increase the risk of myocarditis by whatever fractional increase there is in the risk of infection.

So, one of your fellow anti COVID vaccers posted their so-called proof as you do and others. I went to the site to read for myself and what they posted was the same. I then went to the actual research paper and sure enough it showed that the vaccine was 4 per 100,000 with normal around 1 to 2 per 100,000. Then in the same paper it said the COVID virus is 150 per 100,000, and that was never addressed. The question I have for you is do you see 150 per 100,000 an issue to you? It seems many here have an issue with 4 per 100,000 while aspirin is 10 per 100,000 for men over the age of 50 taking it to thin their blood.

I agree that the vaccine has side effects, but it seems no one wants to tell me what they deem safe or not safe in the XX per 100,000 range.

The risk of death from COVID in all people under 30 is .00027% per case based on the number of cases and deaths. This has resulted in around 8,100 deaths out of a population of about 120 million.

I agree, so I'll ask you. Do they not take the vaccine because the vaccine is bad or because the virus risks are so minimal for their age group?

I am not arguing the minutiae of COVID mycarditis versus vaccine myocarditis because even if your number is correct, by simple inference, the vaccines increase the risk of COVID induced myocarditis.

We also need to think about that the virus long term effects are not known.

Feel free to ignore that. Feel free to ignore that myocarditis is only one of dozens of potentially serious averse events listed on the vaccine inserts.

I agree, but all of this is coming from the spike protein, and you are ignoring the virus that is massively producing spike protein while the vaccine is limited. We are also seeing reports of lingering COVID issues like your dozens. It seems if the virus goes on too long it will fill all your major organs with the protein to maybe cause all the havoc we have seen. This is the side of the virus we are just learning about, so we need to think how to minimum the duration of the illness and not let it go on too long.

You also know as well as I do that every drug we have has a laundry list of ill effects. My favorite is anti-depressants that have a side effect of suicide... go figure... What all this means is you do not take any drug unless the risk of the illness is much worst. If COVID is nothing for an age group then they should not get the vaccine. If you are 75 and/or high risk, you better get the vaccine. It's about that damn simple.

As I have said before we have common drug like aspirin that actually is worst in many cases than the vaccine, so it really looks like people are too hyper over the vaccine, and the internet doesn't help either to feed these groups with whatever they are looking for.

Also, why do people turn every thread into a vaccine thread? As the OP suggests maybe we need to focus a little more on the virus.

a reply to: Xtrozero

In the past, if suddenly the numbers of excess deaths being reported would have been front page headlines and all the stops would have been pulled out to find out what is causing it. But since all our information now comes from the same people that own the pharmaceuticals and the Media, It is being noticed that any questioning is being actively suppressed and ignored. In the UK the daily deaths are now far in excess than at the height of the so-called pandemic. When everyone was glued to the sets waiting for the daily dose.

originally posted by: anonentity

In the past, if suddenly the numbers of excess deaths being reported would have been front page headlines and all the stops would have been pulled out to find out what is causing it. But since all our information now comes from the same people that own the pharmaceuticals and the Media, It is being noticed that any questioning is being actively suppressed and ignored. In the UK the daily deaths are now far in excess than at the height of the so-called pandemic. When everyone was glued to the sets waiting for the daily dose.

I see it slightly different. In the past there would be no information, no one would care one way or the other. If a drug ended up having issues, then it would slowly come out to the general public. This doesn't mean that many in the business to know didn't know about it, just the general public wouldn't.

Today everyone is an instant expert on the subject. Going in great detail as to how the vaccine works or not like they been a vaccine researcher for the last 40 years. I have no problem with that other than people let their biases drive the direction of their knowledge. We can't even find a happy middle here on ATS as example.

The big problem with the "actively suppressed" part is that it could be true if we were talking just one or two companies, and that has happened, but with this vaccine that would mean like dozens of Governments and companies, 1000s of people from the researchers to the front-line doctors are all in on the big secret working in some magical symmetry to prevent the rest of us to know the REAL truth.

I just do not buy it. As people post their on-off non-peer review data I can't find anything supporting it like actual deaths, and it is explained the Governments are just hiding the real death count or some other excuse as to why there is no support. Then we get into the whole doom porn side of it all that just spirals everything down some rabbit hole.

I have a very middle of the road view of the both the vaccine and virus, but it seems I'm just not extreme enough for many here.

a reply to: Ksihkehe

I only know UK policy on medical records but I imagine the same ideas apply elsewhere.

Nobody gets access to records without a "need to see" basis. For the UK this is usually care providers and they only have access to relevant information... A need to see basis. This obviously doesn't apply to the patient who has the right to access their records whenever they wish.

I'm aware of anonymous data collection and research, in the UK this isn't legal without consent of the patient.

In other words when someone talks about medical records and statistics I have my suspicions.

I have no slant with covid and nothing to prove although I did catch it nearly 3 years ago and it changed things for me. Others like to blame the vaccine but I'm unvaccinated, others who were seem to be doing better.

It's trending worse.

So what would you like to do about it?

Financial compensation? Maybe some sentences dishes out?

At the end of the day treatment is a choice for those capable of choosing, nothing has changed when it comes to rights and treatment, those rights are universal.

Sure their was plenty of propaganda and twisting of arms, livelihoods were threatened too. I'd rather end this on a light note and just say I speak sheep.

Know what they're saying?
"Meeee meeee"

one of the persistent discussion points early on, when it first hit Italy was that at some point everyone every where would face the same losses which currently average at 3,000(ish) per million so those countries' with lower rates than that where as much in the firing line as Italy and the UK in the first wave as inevitable outbreaks (due to the eviro/climatic coupling of those regions) they lost control as soon as it broke that coupling in Kent, south Africa, brazil and India..