UN condemns Taliban bans on women, threatens to suspend critical aid

www.politico.com... reply to: Maxmars

Save the Children etc are "make believe entities"?

Since when?

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: Maxmars

We are not meddling in their affairs, their women are protesting and any young men that try to stand up for women are stigmatized and harassed because of 'honor', which simply means the protection and control of womenfolk. Women in public are referred to the "Mother of A", the "Wife of B" never by their names. Where did I read that dehumanization is the first step in allowing cruelty and suffering?

Yes, the woman and children will be the ones to suffer, but that appears to not be of any concern there.

But we were helping the women we are talking about. The Taliban said obey our rules (seems silly that this is about dress codes and doctrinal minutia) but from their perspective we didn't honor their restrictions. I think it is foolish to think that we would simply not harbor opinions to the contrary, but they gave it a shot, for some reason.

I think we could have avoided this mess. Either by giving up on notions that we could change a culture that considers us 'unclean,' or by telling the Afghani women that although we believe it to be basely unfair, we must remind them that any 'movement' to resist tradition might make it impossible for us to help them. But that's not what we do, is it?

Instead, we play 'optics' games. Because virtue signaling is more important than directly helping someone.

I don't know how we can persuade the Taliban to relent on this manner of social existence. And it seems utterly frustrating that no conversation can be had without hatred (theirs and ours) clogging up the work. But I do know that unless we stick to our objectives - all this was for nothing

... and I wonder where all that money will go now? - said the conspiracy theorist in me.

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

Oh, the press releases are wonderful. Each and every NGO has a beautiful raison d'être, and many of them do good works. But behind them is money. And where there are millions upon millions of dollars, there is always more than just the facade.

NGOs have a reputation for associations with subterfuge and manipulation (maybe on behalf of other agencies.) Perhaps it's conditional to the funding, perhaps not... but I'm not ready to say they are all clusters of saintly folks. And the way the operate is sometimes too political, in my opinion, to accept as entirely 'clinical.'

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: Maxmars

MSM news showed only women protesting these bans, where are their husbands, sons, fathers etc. standing up with them. That's how the Suffragettes won the right to vote because men joined them in their cause. I wonder how long before their economy tanks because they are taking working women out of the equation.

Younger men are subject to the rule of an older relative.

Men have certain freedoms -- but they are not free either.

Gonna take another generation probably.

I've been hearing that for a very long time now...it will take another generation, not buying it.

Let's see what happens when U.S. aid is taken away and their economy tanks.

You're not buying what exactly?

That younger men are subject to rule of an older relative?

That they also do not have freedom?

This is where we are right now.

a reply to: Maxmars

I'm sure the Taliban is terrified...

What are we gonna do? Invade again?

a reply to: Maxmars

Oh, the evil Save the Children. What swine, eh?

a reply to: Maxmars

The Taliban asked for financial help and it was offered with what conditions they knew very well were expected - the Taliban said "they would try their best" to deal with poverty and allow women to attend school and that their policies had changed. That was then, this is now.

UN Aid Chief To Visit Afghanistan Over Female Aid Worker Ban

Separately, 12 countries and the EU jointly called on the Taliban this week to reverse the ban on female aid workers and allow women and girls to return to school.

The foreign ministers of Australia, Canada, Denmark, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Norway, Switzerland, the Netherlands, Britain, the United States and the EU issued the statement.

The Taliban seized power in August last year. They largely banned girls' education when last in power two decades ago but said their policies had changed. The Taliban-led administration has not been recognized internationally.

www.dailysabah.com...

But the UN won't stop providing aid there even with the ban.

"We do not believe that it is possible to deliver comprehensive humanitarian action without the participation of women," he said.

However, he added, "It's important that we continue to stay and deliver."

"Aid is never conditional. You cannot condition providing food or health assistance to a starving person, or a dying person."

He said the UN Emergency Relief Coordinator and other UN officials will visit Afghanistan in the coming weeks to discuss the situation with the country's Taliban rulers, which also recently forbade women from university.

www.barrons.com...

It appears women's contribution is unpaid work in agriculture, so maybe work stoppage in that area may garner them some power? Grasping at straws here.

afghanistan.fes.de...#:~:text=Women%27s%20economic%20empowerment%20not%20only%20contributes%20to%20i nclusive,most%20of%20the%20work%20is%20done%20by%20women.

a reply to: quintessentone

Oh man! You know I make these threads in the hopes that I will learn new things from you all. Thank you.

I can't imagine why it never occurred to me that these women would be considered slaves, were they part of our cultural continuum. This schism really checks most of the boxes for the "Is it actionable?" decision-making chart.

I want to believe that neither party really wants to get nasty..., it serves no purpose when the status quo is such that faith trumps all. It's just an exercise in cruelty.

And the only people we can hurt, are the ones that are already hurting... I suspect they deserve better; but whosoever figures out of this problem - please let it not include the profusion of bloodshed and the suffering of innocents.

a reply to: Maxmars

Horrible isn't it? But the UN does not want to stop aid so they will visit soon and hopefully there may, again, be a way forward.

a reply to: watchitburn

I certainly hope that's off the table. Those kinds of confrontation only have "notional" winners... but the losers.. they are all too real.

Besides, I can't see this administration or the attendant people's representation doing much more than paying lip service to this... unless they ignore it into nonexistence.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Maxmars

Oh, the evil Save the Children. What swine, eh?

Wow. You really want to make this about a favorite charity?

Does that mean the others don't figure into the equation? Or does it mean that they are saintly and beyond inclusion in the body of NGOs operating in Afghanistan? No..., really, I'm trying to figure out what your meaning is when repeatedly pointing to them and maybe(?) implying that they should be specifically isolated from the general term "NGO."

Why aid in the 1st place ?

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: Maxmars

MSM news showed only women protesting these bans, where are their husbands, sons, fathers etc. standing up with them. That's how the Suffragettes won the right to vote because men joined them in their cause. I wonder how long before their economy tanks because they are taking working women out of the equation.

You're asking their husbands, etc., to grow a set of balls. Fat chance in that country.

a reply to: Maxmars

Afghanistan is a mess.

The only way to prevent this would have been indefinite occupation. They modernized somewhat. They kept Buzkashi legal. That's something. People can play dead goat polo to their hearts content, so long as they are men.

They haven't really eased back on Opium production either.

It's a mindset trapped in time. They may have learned smartphones but the desire for The Rashidun Caliphate remains.

And Western values, like suffrage, are of the Great Satan. What happened in Iran was due to exposure to Western Values that ends in getting woman on equal pay. By the time that happens in the US, the Taliban will also have slid further along towards egalitarian ideals and may be up to letting women get educated again.

For now though it is change. Uncomfortable change that goes against their comfort zones. Now that they waited out occupation they can prevent THE TOTAL ANARCHY OF IRAN that has women not shielding the top of their heads from Allah properly.

full cicrle. now we supply aid the the taliban again after they were the worst bad guys around, now we're all friends. how lovely!

a reply to: Maxmars

Thanks for explaining that Mars.

Carpy responded that the article explains everything.

I think it goes without saying that I'm trying to look a little deeper than the article.

ie; your response.

Now the press is sponsoring outrage at something we all knew, all along. The NGO are pretending to be sucker-punched victims, saying they may have to discontinue operations ... I am not so sure this is as it is being sold to western citizens.

We should strangle Afghanistan economically, but that will never happen. Biden has no balls.

a reply to: quintessentone

where are their husbands, sons, fathers etc. standing up with them

AT home where they can continue to live .

a reply to: MykeNukem

Please remember, mine is just one opinion; based roughly upon my own observations. As with any such analysis, a great deal of internal compromise takes place. I wanted to explore a narrative 'less travelled,' so to speak.

Personally, it hurts my soul to know this optical progress was so fragile. It seemed we had reached a starting point to at least explore gentle reformation, or at least that the option was no longer a complete fantasy. Perhaps it still is possible, much wiser and influential people must come to the front for such a thing to be possible.

I also hesitated to add in my OP that while this suffering continues, we are hypocritically forgetful of the rest of the worlds' tragic manifestations like missing people, predatory sexual exploitation on an industrial scale, alleged forced labor camps for the politically targeted, brutal revenge justice, economic tyranny, cancerous corruption empires, unnecessary starvation and deprivation, industrial sweat shops, decimation of natural resources solely for profit, abuse of power world-wide, general oppression that spans nations, commerce as a weapon, and the global banking monopoly.

None of those can be said to be less important... but people don't even raise an eyebrow until the media 'produces' an effort to exploit it for relevance. So in the end, the choices as to what we should be most upset about is up to them - not us. I think that's a bad thing.

a reply to: Maxmars

Aren't the majority of us dealing with economic tyranny at home? Sometimes and for some people it can be difficult just to get out of bed in the morning, let alone worrying about the entire state of the world's sufferings. Although there are organizations made up of people that do just that every day. Here on ATS we can discuss the world's sufferings and who knows maybe inspire others to try to make a difference in their own way.