Does Faith Bring In The Truth In Life

For me, I like to look at life with Faith that can be confusing at times. If we try to understand the Truth in Life through faith in our self determination to understand, "does Faith Bring in the Truth in Life", maybe Faith is the Shadow of Truth or maybe Truth is the Shadow of Faith.

a reply to: musicismagic

Ah, my friend! All the truths in Life....are revealed in Faith!!

God bless

a reply to: musicismagic
For some people yes for some no ,i am no believer myself i read alot about believe because i was interested in it.
School i attended always started mondays with verses from the bible and ended the week on friday with also verses of the bible, my dad is a moslim so i heard his side of the stories aswell.
And i think if i would be open to faith and believe that its the real deal ,then i would have been a believer.

For me though those are stories written by human beings and have been for a very long time ,even way before there were writings. Quran wouldn't be here without the bible and the bible wouldn't be here with the torah and torah wouldnt be here without all those other religions/mythology way before that .
Believe and faith evolve over time just like humans have been.

There used to be a time where i was a athiest and didn't believe in a god ,i got to a point now and say i don't think we even know , we try to understand everything in the world/universe and we know alot .
but it's just a fraction of what really is happening and what we really know.

a reply to: musicismagic

Faith does not bring out Truth. If not, it can be one of the main reasons why Truth has been concealed.

There are different type of faith. You can have it blindly, you can have it foolishly, you can have it truthfully.


Yet Truth is not defined by faith. Truth is Truth. That faith can never be equated with such thing.


Faith is something that can be exploited when the one being faithful does not seek the Truth. (Blind faith.)
Faith can be strengthened by miracles. It is yet an immature level when it comes with spiritual growth.

Faith without deeds is of foolishness. (Foolish faith.)


Faith that is of truthfulness will keep on seeking for the Ultimate Truth that even challenging one's belief system is nothing. (Truthful faith.)


Belief in God vs. Faith in God

Compare belief with faith with the above notion?

Why the belief?
[Because of the Truth of God.]

Why the faith?
[Because of the Need for God.]


Which is more of God then?

People should believe in God whether there are miracles or not. Believe in God, for God is the Truth.

Truth is alive, irrepressible and holds the spirit of disclosure.

Truth is revealed to believer and nonbeliever alike. Faith has no part in this; believe or don't believe, Truth will reveal in full exuberance as Truth wills.

I do respect people's faith, but I don't respect their manipulation of that faith in order to create fear and control.



J. BArdem

For me, I like to look at life with Faith that can be confusing at times

Good. Suggest that is a sign that your faith is starting to cleanse your mind. Allowing you to see things as they truly are. Instead of seeing things through a lens of egoistical bias. The path will appear dark and empty as our ego is stripped away. But God willing, that emptiness will eventually be filled with an immeasurable love for everything and everyone.

a reply to: musicismagic

Not for me. Faith isn't tangible enough. For me it's actually an antonym of truth. At least when attempting to get use out of it.

I will never fault someone when they harness the psychodrama power of abstraction, but I need the visceral.

Like a common situation of adversity sees faith make an appearance for many people. It's like a well of optimism to draw from. A valid resource for getting through adversity.

My mind rejects that. It doesn't fulfill any of the realism requirements. So when looking for a TRUE solution to my obstacles it needs to be something directly perceived by the senses. It needs phenomenality and direct connections to causality.

I often feel envious of those that can derive hope and feel better about their problems when they employ faith.

Now definition 2 of faith is interchangeable with trust. I have faith that the trash chute bin will be emptied on Mondays and Thursdays because it happens that way every week... except for when they were on strike. But I don't think that's the one you meant.

One of the first things you are taught within any of the various (original) types of mysticism or illumination, is something referred to as “The Primary Truth”, which is:

The only thing you will ever know for certain in this world, is that you exist
Everything else is up for debate

Personal belief, is not the same as knowing

You are then taught to understand, that beyond this it is impossible to define anything in this world as “truth”

They exist only as relative truths, relatable to the experience of the primary truth, self

As you can never fully know or experience another persons mind, body and conscious, as if it were your own, you can never say them for certainty to be a “truth”, in the same way you can, knowing yourself

Hence why they are “relative” truths

The essence of the understanding is, that though you can never know them for certain, to a be a truth in the same way you know yourself, you must assume them to be

Because regardless of whether they are a true conscious in their own right, or they exist only as part of the collective consciousness through which you experience this world, they are a condition upon which your truth reflects within this world

Which makes them as real, as you are

Regardless of if they are a whole and complete “conscious”, or just part of the collective “consciousness”

“Real”, not “Truth”

You must afford them (and respect them) the same courtesies and considerations that you would yourself

In many cases, more so than yourself. Because they represent the potential of who we could be. They can be the best, or worst of us. Something determined by our interactions, which shapes who we are as a person

The considerations as to whether or not they are a true “soul” individual person and conscious, like your own, is initially confusing

During initiation into the mysteries, you will go through a quite lonely process of desolation. Where you may/might find yourself doubting the existence of anyone and anything around you

Eventually, you come to the understanding, that what they are does not matter

All that you feel, is all that is real
Don't let anybody take that
You're alive

“They are, as they are. And they will be, as they need be”
“They are a likeness. They will be, that which they are like”

This is the essence of what is often referred to as stripping of the ego

It is less about a sense of self, than it is about understanding that identity is a relative construct, which holds little importance

“I am, what I am
You are, what you are”

There is no truth beyond this

If you were to strip someone famous of their identity, would you find them lacking as a person?

The lesson is that "who" or "what" we are, matters little when it comes to the substance and/or worth of the individual, and/or their "souls"

If you could meet and interact with God tonight, be it physically as an orb of fiery light, or spiritually as the voice of an invisible entity in your head, it is near certain that one of your first questions to them would be “What/who are you?”

This is ego. It is the illusory necessity of comprehending a relative truth (another), to the primary truth of self, through identity

But, regardless of what they tell you, or how they act, you cannot ever “know” for certain that it is God, as who you are within this world

So why does it matter?

The only sensible answer they could possibly give you, that you could understand in some way, relative to how you know and understand yourself, is:

“I am, who I am. Just as, you are, who you are”

Identity and form, is not important

Even if an invisible entity told you exactly who or what they are? There is no way for you to know that they are telling you the “truth” of who, or what they are

So why would it matter?

It is pointless telling you. It is pointless explaining

At least, until you can know. If such a thing is to ever happen or come to be

Identity, name, race, species, or even indeed religion, does not matter

“Who, or what they are” is not important

The only thing that is important is “What they do”

This forms part of later lesson, which is the basis for understanding love in this world:

"We are, that which we do"

Which in-turn forms part of a greater understanding, that the only way to ever possibly know “God” (or the source of our creation), is through our interactions with this world, all within it, and more importantly, ourselves

"Know thy self, know God

Love the world and all within it, love God"

When we speak about “Faith”. This is the consideration of things being true, without knowing

“Faith” and “Truth” are a dichotomy, incompatible by definition

If you knew something to be “true”, you would not need “faith”
And the reason you need “faith”, is because you do know know something as "true"

The modern use of “faith” within religion, appears to be a corruption of the original Gnostic principle of “relative truth”. Which refers to our ability to see things as likely being true, based upon that which we do know, within self

If you were to know or understanding something, as real and “true” as you know yourself, then there would be no need for belief or faith

Within modern religion, “faith” and “belief” seem to be offered as a type of mirror, designed to oppose and stand contrary to any teaching or shared understanding of the primary truth, within any form of illumination or mysticism

These religions cannot offer you truth

Because truth is not something which can be given to be “believed”. Or given through “faith”

It can only be known and understood

And if you still need believe, or have faith?

Then you neither know, nor understand

It is nothing more than the illusion of truth

The perpetual promise of an answer which cannot be given

Let God be, as God is
Unto yourself, as to your divinity

You will be all you need be
When you need be
As you need be

Consider yourself, only in that which you do
Not within that which you cannot know, and cannot be

Until you know more …
Until you become more …

Be what you are, in all that you are
As that is the only truth you need
That is “God”

Without faith the collection plates would be empty and the charlatan preachers would have to find a real job.

Faith and Repentance are two sides of the same coin.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

That does not answer "Does Faith Bring In The Truth In Life"

Where is the truth is it in faith?

Did you celebrate Christmas with a Christmas tree ChesterJohn?

Jeremiah 10:3-4 KJV "For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not."

Jeremiah was written 500 years before Christianity yet it describes the same act of celebration that is done at Christmas today. In celebrating the Roman sun god Mithra that was born a virgin on december 25 are we unknowingly guilty of “You Shall Have No Other Gods Before Me” (Exodus 20:3)? Does God throw all those ignorant of these things into the lake of fire?

a reply to: glend

Mixed up on what these are n the church age.

Faith is Repentance, if you have not repented and turned to Jesus Christ, then no Faith is any good for any thing other than good works which are a filthy rags.

Faith brings salvation if correct gospel believed and correct faith applied. But until the coin is had no ones faith will bring in any light, except the faith of Jesus Christ.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Faith and repentance are swords that destroy the falsehoods of mind. But even Jesus warned, those swords too, have to be destroyed, after they have done their work (Matthew 7:21-23). So what remains is the one truth. That one truth being God. So use the gospels wisely then burn them.

For this commandment which I command you today is not too mysterious for you, nor is it far off. It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will ascend into heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may do it.

Deuteronomy 30:11-14

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Faith is invested belief

It is a polarised mirror of repentance, which means one can open the door to the other ...

But they are not the same thing

If you are to consider them to be the same thing, then you must also believe "deception" to be the same thing as "salvation", because the two function as gateways to each other in exactly the same way

Redemption is not exclusive, to be given through offering or reward

It has to be earned

When you are asked to accept that Jesus Christ died for you, you are supposed to say no

You are supposed to reject the offer and commit to dying yourself, even if it means you lose your soul. Rather than ever let someone else die in this way for you

You are supposed to commit to giving everything you have, before you ever let someone else pay a price that is yours to pay

You are supposed to show that you have the type of heart that world protect a type of beauty like Jesus Christ in this world, at all costs

Not align yourself with institutions that would put them to torture and death. Then celebrate it

Because that is what love is. Putting another before yourself

It is one simple lesson you are supposed to learn from Jesus Christ and the Bible. Love

Love, as he loved you

To give yourself up, completely, if necessary, before you would ever willfully persecute another to giving up themselves. Regardless of if they want to do it for you or not

If you choose to accept Jesus Christ dying for you, you fail the test

This is not love. It is affinity. Nothing more

Alignment to Jesus Christ does not offer the things you think it does

It merely spares you the pain of having to go through the trials and tribulations of mystic initiation rites, to try earn you own ascension, when you go through a spiritual awakening in this life

It is the spiritual equivalent of saying "I don't want to know, I just want to be happy"

And there is nothing wrong with that. Or wanting to experience and share such simple beauty

But there is something wrong with you purporting that it is the only path

I can assure you, it is not

All paths are branches that share the same tree and roots

If you want to be deterministic, without true understanding, then I assure you that any and all religion would lose to biology every single time

Because it came first within creation. Before we as a people could read, write, talk, or even recognise self

There would be no Bible, religion, God or Jesus to believe in, or people to believe in it, without biology at its roots

And if biology were to be considered nothing more than a foundation supporting religion?

Then both would lose every time to geometry. That which allowed them to be brought together in such a way

See the correlation between biology as the Father, and geometry as the Holy Spirit?

In fact, if we were to be deterministic in there only being one true religion, for all mankind, it would be sacred geometry and its Bible would be mathematics

And if you want to talk about the "correct Bible" and "correct faith", there is a more correct translation of the Bible which supports this

Berash!t (Genesis) = Biology
Shemot (Exodus) = Geometry

Torah/Taurus, literally refers to the geometric shape, the Torus

El'ohim is equilibrium

Translate key words like this, and the Bible stories align exactly perfectly with preceding teachings of things like sacred geometry

And they do so in such a way that concepts like Jesus Christ, would be superseded by a relative root understanding of emotional conscience

If there is only one path to salvation? Which gateways do you want? To what depth or level of understanding?

It does not matter which one you choose, the veil Bible will lose

You are far better off accepting that there are many paths to God

As to allow yours to be one of them

a reply to: glend

Duet is to Jews not me or you today.

a reply to: glend

There is no guarantee i the scripture that FAITH will bring in truth.

The Scriptures do say that the words of God are truth and bring in truth.

a reply to: CompendiumFaith is invested belief

If faith to move a mountain is the size of a mustard seed then you don't need much of an investment to believe on Christ finished work of his cross for your penalty of your sin.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Faith alone does not move mountains. It does not move anything

It only invests you in the belief that it can be moved

You need action

Faith and invested belief in things like Jesus Christ, without the understanding you are supposed to follow him in your actions (Mark 8:34-38), are just the same as assuring yourself, someone else will come along to do it. So you don't have to

I don't need to believe, or have faith in things such as this at all. I'm an illuminated mystic

When I was given the choice, I chose to go through the "Christ" process myself

I died, more than once, to prove I did not fear such things, and was resurrected

You only need do it for the right reasons to pass the test

Do it for the wrong reasons, or with the wrong guidance? And you die

To gain within this world, or to "save yourself", or to do it for "the promise of heaven or eternal life" are not the right reasons

These are the equivalent of giving up your soul, allowing it to be subject to another

You need do it to ensure that no-one and nothing, ever pays a price for you and your own pain

You do not need to saved from your own "sin". If you think you do, then you do not even yet understand what "sin" is. So how can you possibly be saved from it?

All such things are nothing more than pain. They can be caused by innocence, or by not knowing any better, but at the core, everything is either pain, or love

You are supposed to atone and make up for the things you have done, because they pain you. Or simply learn to forgive yourself and let go, if you cannot atone or make up for them

If you cannot recognise all the things that you have done wrong, or they do not pain you, then you are not ready for ascension

If you need another to pay your cost to feel better about yourself, you are also not ready

Jesus Christ cannot help you in this regard

No matter how much you want it, or believe it, only you can do these things yourself

Jesus Christ is merely supposed to show you the path to doing it yourself. Not do it for you

Pain aggregates and hardens in the heart like stone, so it can be difficult to understand its depths

In some people, it might seem impossible to remove or conqueror without something like Jesus Christ, but this is not the case. Religion is merely one gateway. You still need to open the doors yourself

You have to deal with the pain layer by layer

The more pain you remove, the more surfaces

It can take many, many years of tears and torture, but you eventually find the bottom

This is what is referred to as "Ascension"

Descending through layers of darkness (hell), to burst back through into light

It is how the universe was made, and it is the only way possible, to pass through the waters to commune with the source of creation

The Christ process, on top of this, is being able to reflect across (or love fluidly across) these dimensions

Hence what is meant by dying on the cross, then ascending

To be about to see and know the virtue of love, even when your are buried in pain

And being able to recognise and give yourself to pain if necessary, even when no love can be found or felt

It is the same as the Egyptian boat taking you through the underworld. You are supposed to learn to remove all the pain from your heart until it weighs lighter than a feather on the scales

For those who die and are resurrected (reborn is a much more accurate word) during their process, it is like having your soul torn forcefully across the dimensions dividing things like light and dark

The "Christ" process, is usually only carried out, when a persons heart is so beautiful, that it is willing to take on impossible amounts of pain in this world. Too much for it to ever surface or return on its own

It is a process of catharsis and cleansing

The type of hearts that would die, and lose their own soul if necessary, before they ever stood up to take what is rightfully theirs

That would let the world walk over them, until their is nothing left of them to walk over

These people need be polarised, so that the will and determination they come up against, is their own. Because no other being in this world, could ever beat them in this regard

When they are confronted with/by/through/in themselves in such a way, they learn to love and give to themselves, in the same way they are prepared to love and give themselves to others, or allow themselves to be taken by others

It turns them into a force to be reckoned with

One impossible to oppose, within the things they offer

Things that others do not, and could not possibly know or understand, unless they have been through the process

Over the last 10 years, I have been tortured, I have suffered and lost nearly everything. And I still have not properly made it through all the pain, to surface and "ascend"

But I am close enough, that I can see through the veil, without the type of pain which can destroy most who try

I feel the connection to all things around me, which cannot be put into words

Crossing over and returning, is one of the most painful things you can ever go through in this world. Both physically and emotionally

But it is worth it

Christ is not a title or name. It is a process of conscience

Anyone can go through the Christ process. You just need to be willing to give up everything, including your very existence if necessary

The faith and belief, needs to be within yourself

Because real faith and belief lays within being prepared to leap even if it its likely there is nothing and no-one there to catch you. Because it is the right thing to do

There is very little of it within devotion based on promises of being saved. Or is risking nothing of yourself

Mark 8:34
And having called near the multitude, with his disciples, he said to them, ‘Whoever doth will to come after me — let him disown himself, and take up his cross, and follow me;

35
For whoever may will to save his life shall lose it; and whoever may lose his life for my sake and for the good news’ sake, he shall save it;

36
For what shall it profit a man, if he may gain the whole world, and forfeit his life?

37
Or what shall a man give as an exchange for his life?

38
For whoever may be ashamed of me, and of my words, in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man also shall be ashamed of him, when he may come in the glory of his Father, with the holy messengers.’

a reply to: ChesterJohn

"Duet is to Jews not me or you today."

Paul quoted Deuteronomy 30:11-14 in Romans 10:6-8. However he retracted the most important part which I highlighted in my previous post "that you may do it". That is Gods promise that true Faith will result in absolute truth.

But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? 7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? 8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Romans 10:6-8

"The Scriptures do say that the words of God are truth and bring in truth."

That certainly matters to the intellect. But Christianity is a path of devotion, not intellect. Faith is not in the knowing of written words (aka intellect). Gods word is love (1 John 4:8) explaining why faith must exist in the heart as explained in Romans 10:6-8. In having desires you need ask Jesus in your heart to burn those desires. In being attacked by the unruly, you need ask Jesus in heart for the correct way to respond. If you meet a person that your intellect cannot love you need ask Jesus in your heart to love that person. Any response in anger, lust for desires or hatred can only be born from the intellect. In true faith one abides to the will of their heart.