Japan, the UK, and Italy to jointly develop a successor to the ASDF F2

Some comments

日本の国防が少しずつまともになっていくのが嬉しい
I'm happy that Japan's national defense is gradually becoming more decent.

Can Japan convince Britain of manned fighter + unmanned fighter?

Is it reasonable to make the engine a single large engine? In other words, it would be cheaper and stronger to follow F2

Peace of mind in Japan, England, and Italy
Both are countries that have produced excellent aircraft and ships

The F-35 is designated as a black box and cannot be upgraded freely, so we need a fighter that can be upgraded freely with the F-3.
Some country seems to have dismantled the F-35's black box and was furious with the United States.
If it is scheduled to be deployed in 2035, it will not be in time unless the actual aircraft is ready and tests are started around 2030. It's like testing a prototype in 2-3 years and then testing the rest of the mass-produced machine that is actually deployed.

a reply to: musicismagic

Looks cool, something tells me had the Russky's tried mainland Japan old Ivan would have had the shock of his life and been sent packing very fast.

a reply to: musicismagic

Interesting that an EU member country is investing in a non EU project to replace the Typhoon rather than the French / German project.
Sensible I guess but interesting nonetheless.

a reply to: gortex

FCAS has been stalled for almost a year. They only just recently had a breakthrough in talks about workshare. It’s going to be awhile getting off the ground. The UK is trying to tighten ties with Japan, Japan was looking for someone to help with a next generation aircraft. It was a match made for them.

a reply to: Zaphod58

as i see it Tempest is FCAS and it'll come back full circle as the uk gov will giveTemplest to France/Germany to finish as the uk is the worst at finish projects.

a reply to: gortex

uk/italy have a long working relationship and the E|U is not yet a single country with a single army..

until then many member states have different military defence relationships with the UK, Sweden is on team tempest but that looks more to be about Grippen tech updates than tempest per se..

so if we look at the MOU

This Memorandum of Understanding covers the cooperation for research, development and joint concepting of the Tempest 6th generation fighter aircraft which will replace the Eurofighter Typhoon (in Italy and UK) and the Saab Gripen (in Sweden). The goal of the MoU is to have an equal participation of the signatory countries in the activities related to Tempest, with positive effects on each own defense industry, small and medium enterprises, research institutes and universities.

now feather in japan and its looks like a very interesting situation is evolving..

on the UK/Japan side the Joint New Air-to-Air Missile (JNAAM) is an interesting evolution leading us here..

Japan confirms plan to jointly develop missile with Britain

a reply to: nickyw

FCAS and Tempest are two different programs. FCAS includes multiple families of systems, including NGF and unmanned aircraft. It will be carrier capable and fly off the next French carrier. Tempest won't be carrier capable, and will have different requirements. It won't fit into the NGF program.

a reply to: nickyw

Sweden isn't an official partner on Tempest. They're working more on the partner systems, and combat systems, such as the UAVs that will join the program.

a reply to: Zaphod58

FCAS/SCAS, my intent rather than getting into a p*ssing contest with you as i respect your knowledge was to state the uk gov have a habit of walking away from these projects and let some else finish and then reap the rewards as they did with the Boxer..

you only have to see the way thery killed off their own drone prgrams in favour of off the shelf us ones to know they'll never follow through on Tempest.

i know i'm not the only one who is sure the uk gov will kill Tempest especially this gov..
Think tank to Italy: Join UK Tempest program, then try to merge it with Franco-German effort

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: nickyw

Sweden isn't an official partner on Tempest. They're working more on the partner systems, and combat systems, such as the UAVs that will join the program.

and i thought i'd covered that with the caveat..

until then many member states have different military defence relationships with the UK, Sweden is on team tempest but that looks more to be about Gripen tech updates than tempest per se..

a reply to: nickyw

They do, but those are usually solo programs, although several of the drone programs were just tech demonstrators. In this case, with Sweden on the edges, and Italy and Japan involved, it's far more likely to go through to completion than other programs.

a reply to: nickyw

Less Gripen updates, and more UAV and related systems updates. There will be some Gripen updates, but right now, Sweden uses an Israeli built UAV, and three American built UAV types. The largest is the Ornen, which is based on the RQ-7 Shadow. Tempest is going to do similar to FCAS and NGAD, and develop multiple systems, including unmanned. Sweden is going to capitalize on that and use it to help improve their UAV capabilities with some indigenously built stuff from the program.

a reply to: Zaphod58

well you have more confidence in them than i do,

at this point i'd not trust this lot to replace the stuff they've given to ukraine.

a more inept bunch i couldn't imagine..

a reply to: nickyw

It's a lot harder to cancel a program when there are international partners. The more partners, the harder it is to cancel.

a reply to: Zaphod58

thanks for the specifics, I'm just remembering the convos i had at the time which flowed on from the hope of setting up the navalised gripen design office in London meant a QEs version might be on the cards rather than the simpler answer that it was a bridge in their offering of a navalised version to India..

its always the simpler answer to the hoped one..

a reply to: Zaphod58

fcas and boxer appear to evolve and devolve in similar ways.. but as i see it my gov is an industry wrecker with zero confidence not only in itself but also in uk industry, nor does it care about brain drains hence losing so many skilled pilots to China..

but then this was also the gov that sought a golden age with china so a loss of nato knowledge and sharing of skills goes with that kind of daft thinking.

a reply to: nickyw

The way the MoD has been running the last few years, the ONLY reason I have any faith in this going anywhere is the international partners.

originally posted by: gortex
Interesting that an EU member country is investing in a non EU project to replace the Typhoon rather than the French / German project.

Italy, the EU country. Italy is politically trying to stop its defence industry being subsumed into, or deleted, by the French. The French are seeking to control the other European programme, called FCAS, (France, Germany and Spain). If you were Italian, would you rather invest in a Tempest/Global Combat Air Programme with the UK and Japan, or watch your sovereign industry weakened while France laughs in your face.

Experience shows that most defence programmes involving the French fail, or the partners end up just being treated as cash cows.

Personally, I think the UK, Italy and Japan (plus others) will create an amazing aircraft, that splices together the technology and innovation of their respective countries, in a respectful and beneficial partnership.

a reply to: paraphi

If you were Italian, would you rather invest in a Tempest/Global Combat Air Programme with the UK and Japan, or watch your sovereign industry weakened while France laughs in your face.

As a Brexiteer I would go for the option that doesn't involve France or Germany for the reasons you state and agree the British / Japanese project would be the one most likely to deliver the superior project in a shorter time.

a reply to: gortex

If it was not for the traditional rivalry and the fact they are currently #ting all over us by letting and even helping there illegals to invade our country I would say the French are not so bad when it comes to there technology, there fighters have been top class in the past while maybe not as good as ours or Sweden's for that matter (As old as it is the old Saab fighter jet with it's short take of and landing designed to land on forest roads even short ones was the only real global competitor for the capability's of the Harrier back in the day but of course the Harrier was still better).

The problem with France - among other things - is they would wrangle and then there is the whole argument about who get's what jobs etc so I have to agree but it is worth pointing out that our own government are worse enemy's to our people than the French have ever been, most homeless are British while you are unlikely to see a homeless Albanian illegal migrant because the government will house them first in a plush hotel with heating, clothing and food and even money and if they get to stay here that is extended to money for them to learn our language, learn to drive and to get them all started up and running while our own kids are crapped all over by our government regardless of if that be Tory's or NL, even the so called Reform party are all my arse and gord help us if the lib-dem's ever got into power.

Going into a commitment with Japan is a good idea, good trade partner for us and the commonwealth, good ally against a potentially ever more dangerous China and it's Nork proxy (that used to be a Russian proxy and maybe still is) and also keeps both our trade foot and our international relations with such a strong partner active, we both gain as does the entire commonwealth.

The Japanese self defence forces are not as weak as they seem as well and I have no doubt that Japan is actually stronger than anyone other than the US really knows and this will give them a top notch fighter.

I am personally still steaming over that idiot former RAF pilot who has sold his services to China and is training there pilots, pretty certain he signed the official secrets act so is liable for treason.