Largest anti-terrorist raid in Germany's history 25 arrested across multiple states

This sounds fairly widespread and semi-organized, looking for better sources and more info. Says it was called the Second Reich and was based on 1871 German society, by a minor aristocrat and a judge.

How prevalent is this kind of activity, European countries have always seem to be full of plotters and conspirators

Whatever you do Germany don't let them write an autobiography while in prison.


www.zeit.de...

The prince, the judge and a failed coup d'etat
With nationwide raids, investigators break up a conspiracy in the Reichsbüger milieu. Traces lead to the Bundeswehr and to a former member of the Bundestag.

www.bz-berlin.de...

The criminals' plan: A “military arm” was to eliminate the democratic rule of law at the municipal, district and municipal level. The dead would be accepted. "The association takes this scenario as a necessary intermediate step towards the desired system change at all levels," said the federal prosecutor.

Among the suspects is an active KSK soldier. His apartment and office in a barracks were searched in Calw (Baden-Württemberg). The soldier should be a member of the elite unit's staff, according to the Military Counterintelligence Service (MAD).

Reich citizens are people who do not recognize the Federal Republic and its democratic structures. They refuse to pay taxes, for example, and are often in conflict with the authorities. The Office for the Protection of the Constitution ascribes around 21,000 followers to the scene.

About five percent of them, i.e. around 1150, are right-wing extremists. In 2021, the Office for the Protection of the Constitution attributed 1,011 extremist crimes to the "Reichsbürger und Selbstverwalter" scene.

www.bbc.com...

Twenty-five people have been arrested in raids across Germany on suspicion of plotting to overthrow the government.

German reports say the group of far-right and ex-military figures planned to storm the parliament building, the Reichstag, and seize power.

A minor aristocrat described as Prince Heinrich XIII, 71, is alleged to have been central to their plans.

According to federal prosecutors, he is one of two alleged ringleaders among those arrested across 11 German states.

The plotters are said to include members of the extremist Reichsbürger [Citizens of the Reich] movement, which has long been in the sights of German police over violent attacks and racist conspiracy theories. They also refuse to recognise the modern German state.

An estimated 50 men and women are alleged to have been part of the group, said to have plotted to overthrow the republic and replace it with a new state modelled on the Germany of 1871 - an empire called the Second Reich.

Investigators are thought to have got wind of the group when they uncovered a kidnap plot last April involving a gang who called themselves United Patriots.

They too were part of the Reichsbürger scene and had allegedly planned to abduct Health Minister Karl Lauterbach while also creating "civil war conditions" to bring about an end to Germany's democracy.

I don't mean to doubt the authorities, but this seems to be "too good to be true."

All the elements of a classic 'coup' theory.

An 71 year-old royal family member... "central to their plans?" As in an architect of the group? Or just prominent by his social standing?

Some are "said to include" (we aren't told by whom) members of the extremist Reichsbürger [Citizens of the Reich] (a different group/movement,) who themselves have "... long been in the sights of German police over violent attacks and racist conspiracy theories."

When an 'extremist' group engages in violent attacks why isn't it a criminal group? Why should we be concerned over their unspecified "racist conspiracy theories" - or is that alone enough to convict? Three excellent guilt-inducing buzzwords there... racist, and conspiracy theories. Oh, and "right wing." Of course.

This is reading to me like a "standard" government operation rendered into a Hollywood style public relations piece...

I hope this really does eliminate any specter of violence that may have been forthcoming, but I can't help but compare it to the many accounts provided by the FBI when they heroically save everyone from the evil people of my country. Maybe I'm just too cynical.

Of course, the prideful will reiterate the evil that was thwarted... and they damage they could have done... Just like the FBI PR pieces we see paraded before us all the time.

Also, would the people of Germany engaged in civil war (or be plunged into "civil war conditions" whatever that might be) because of this? And what makes the Health Minister a reasonable target for kidnapping? Popularity?

Wouldn't you need more than 50 people to overthrow the German government? Wouldn't you need an army? How many others are there in this group, hundreds, thousands?

Perhaps I am being too critical... but this article seems disturbingly parallel to others, like it came out of a text-book.

Edit to reflect updated content.

Thank you for adding sources... 21,000 people... I imagine that could be enough to overthrow a country - especially if all of Germany simply acquiesces.

a reply to: putnam6
"Terrorists" aha yeah right..... I

a reply to: putnam6
How do you know you are living under communist rule ? Because all those who oppose it are labelled as right wing extremists

It's an odd story about a small bunch of nutters who never had a chance of success, but whose plans were violent enough that the police had to go in and pick them up. From what I've read 'Prince Heinrich XIII' is a distant member of Haus Reuß (historically odd themselves), estranged from them due him getting whacky as hell, apparently once in power they wanted to employ seers to find the Bill Gates implants In our heads (??????) and naturally they had contacts with Russia (not even Putin could have thought they'd succeed).
The word we need to use for this lot is a simple one: delusional.

originally posted by: Hiram33
a reply to: putnam6
How do you know you are living under communist rule ? Because all those who oppose it are labelled as right wing extremists

*Facepalm*
I don't think you understand modern Germany.

Thousands of police have carried out a series of raids across Germany against suspected far-right extremists who allegedly sought to overthrow the state by force. Europe correspondent Nick Dole reports.

According to some reports, their platform included the German borders of 1871.
Here's a link showing how delusional that is.
Never going to happen. What kind of medication were these people on?

There was an attack with a dead 14 year old girl two days ago, perpetrator was a 27 years old refugee/asylum seeker. This was number one headline everywhere. Not to the amusement of those in charge who want to and actively bring more and more people to Germany (no, not Doctors, Professors, Rocket Scientists...) to make Germany go faster back to 1929 again, you know, the "transformation", collapse of the social system and all that.

Then suddenly these senior, let´s say think tank members, were arrested and suddenly everything is full of these very, very dangerous, a threat to democracy, "Reichsbürger" and the raid with 3000 officials to arrest 25 very, very dangerous, lets say pensioners who LARPed a strategic game.

Another curios thing is that all that allegedly was very secretly prepared for a long time. But then you have live teams of several news stations, at six in the morning, reporting live from several different raid spots. Did they all have a dream about what will happen, when it will happen and where it will exactly happen. Or were these presstitutes perhaps informed beforehand? I have a little problem to believe in that dream theory, tbh.

For me it looks like somebody needed/wanted new headlines. Good headlines for those in charge. Headlines that remember everybody that the real danger comes only from the "right" side and that "our" interior minister is more than a highly overpaid zero.

They simple could not use headlines about child murderers which are not "bio-german" because only "bio-germans" seem to be a threat for Germany. And somehow they are right, it´s mostly Germans who are a threat for liberty/freedom and democracy in Germany(very often foreign controlled), for the well-being of the population here. But these are not only some senior weirdos with their crude thought games.

The real threat sits at the levers of powers, proves to be a threat since 2020 again and again. And their theories become harsh and sad reality for the population faster than you can run. All institutions that formerly were created, especially after Hitler-Deutschland, to protect the people from the state are infiltrated by those in power, with their onw henchmen. The federal constitutional court is, since Merkel installed Harbarth there, a government court to protect the government. The federal constitutional protection agency is nothing else than a government protection agency meanwhile.

I don´t care about those caught rich, bored weirdo seniors and that they got caught. Ex-politicians and judges and all that, doesn´t hit the wrong ones. But these double standards are enormous. At least didn´t these bored rich seniors didn´t glue themselves to the streets and to endanger the road traffic(for ambulance and police too), they didn´t attack art work in museums, they didn´t try to distrub concerts, they didn´t illegally break in an airport, to destroy property and to endanger flight traffic, they didnßt openly announce that they want to attack oil pipelines next...

Yet 3000 officials raided more than 130 objects to arrest these 25 rich weirdo seniors. And their propaganda machinery is more than happy being allowed to roll at full speed again. What do you think happened to the reports about the killing of a 14 year old girl that happened 3 days ago now? If there are still reports, they are only margin notes now, page three stuff or whatever. What a coincidence, Nancy Faeser,( or red fancy Nancy as some say...) interior minister is happy about having saved Germany from 25 rich, bored weirdo seniors which of course are very. very dangerous right-wing extremists...

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: Hiram33
a reply to: putnam6
How do you know you are living under communist rule ? Because all those who oppose it are labelled as right wing extremists

*Facepalm*
I don't think you understand modern Germany.

Please explain "modern Germany" to us and I will tell you about Pink Panther

originally posted by: ChristianSupremacist

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: Hiram33
a reply to: putnam6
How do you know you are living under communist rule ? Because all those who oppose it are labelled as right wing extremists

*Facepalm*
I don't think you understand modern Germany.

Please explain "modern Germany" to us and I will tell you about Pink Panther

It's not a communist state in any way, shape or form for a start. The current Government is a liberal-left coalition government with the Greens and the FDP.
And frankly this bunch of elderly nutcases, with their delusions of the borders of 1871, shooting members of the Reichstag and current Government and (???) getting 'seers' to spot the Bill Gates chips in everyone's head, are the very definition of right-wing extremists.
Off their meds as well.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

People from the Right - anything bad, automatically Left - Commies.
People from the Left - anything bad, automatically Right - Fascists.

There are lots of those old German 'Nobles' from age-old Households and Prussian Military Junker types with an in built belief in their right to rule who long for a return to the Glory Days of The Second Reich.

They are an anachronism, but a dangerous anachronism all the same.

Maybe we should all be looking closer to home for similar threats?

originally posted by: Hiram33
a reply to: putnam6
How do you know you are living under communist rule ? Because all those who oppose it are labelled as right wing extremists

in germany we know a lot about right-wing terrorism and therefore know what right-wing terror is. you can google NSU (national socialist underground) or octoberfestattentat 1980 or hoyerswerda 91. just a few examples.

by the way, there was also a period when left-wing terrorism dominated the german news - in the 70s: RAF.

there is indeed a communist party in germany, they got 0.1% in one federal state in some election last year.

How can Germany be a democracy and at the same time they engage in highly unpopular mass importation of all those turd-worlders? A truly democratic government would seek to obey the wishes of the people.

originally posted by: starviego
How can Germany be a democracy and at the same time they engage in highly unpopular mass importation of all those turd-worlders? A truly democratic government would seek to obey the wishes of the people.

"The right to asylum has constitutional status in Germany as a fundamental right. Its core purpose is to protect human dignity, but it also protects life, physical integrity, freedom and other fundamental human rights. It is the only fundamental right to which only foreigners are entitled."

originally posted by: malte85
"The right to asylum ... protects life.."

Tell that to the family of the 14yr-old girl stabbed to death by the asylum seeker. Since when it is the job of the Germans to solve problems for people oversees? Is the nation of Germany some kind of international charitable organization, or a Nation State, whose only job it is to look after the welfare of the German people?

A rather worrying aspect of the reporting on this is the labelling of the conspirators as 'conspiracy theorists'.
Its a trend that is emerging within MSM at present.

They also have links to the German military, says Miro Dittrich, an expert who tracks the group as well as other conspiracy theorists.

....conspiracy narratives were quite attractive for a lot of people because it gave the world an order," he said.

Many have been surprised at the depth to which conspiracy theories in general have permeated German society.....

www.bbc.co.uk...

originally posted by: malte85

originally posted by: starviego
How can Germany be a democracy and at the same time they engage in highly unpopular mass importation of all those turd-worlders? A truly democratic government would seek to obey the wishes of the people.

"The right to asylum has constitutional status in Germany as a fundamental right. Its core purpose is to protect human dignity, but it also protects life, physical integrity, freedom and other fundamental human rights. It is the only fundamental right to which only foreigners are entitled."

Up to what threshold ?
5 million
20 million
100 million
1 billion
More ?

At some point, the state will collapse under the burden of paying for these refugees.

A democratic state is there to protect and defend the interests of its' CITIZENS, NOT FOREIGNERS.
None of those sellout politicians anywhere in the West have ever run a democratic referendum on mass importation of refugees, as they know the electorate would never vote for it.

The citizen electorate accepts to pay taxes in exchange for services from the State, not to feed limitless immigration which by definition would bankrupt the state and deny Citizens the services THEY PAID FOR.

a reply to: Freeborn

You mean like the House of Lords?
lol

a reply to: Peeple

I didn't know The House of Lords was the topic of debate?

If it was you'd be aware of my opinion on it.