Alien Abduction :A Global Analysis

originally posted by: KTemplar
a reply to: Arbitrageur
... We reappeared in a driving rainstorm on our bicycles at night with no shoes or any recollection as to what occurred after the abduction.

I will never forget the grey’s eyes two inches from my face.

Where were you when you were abducted? Inside? Outside? And you saw the grey approaching you to abduct you, but after he abducted you, you don't remember anything after that? And you sort of woke up or regained consciousness while riding a bicycle?

People who have not been abducted, like Susan Clancy, should not claim to be experts in the field.

I was abducted in the 70s with my friend/neighbor.

Back in the 70s, security cameras weren't as common and inexpensive as they are today. But now we have security cameras on many city streets (I read that London has large coverage but I haven't been there for some time) and lots of people have them in their homes, for various reasons but perhaps one is the hope that if their child is abducted, the security cam will record the abduction and potentially help ID the abductor so the child can be returned home.

For example: Home security camera catches stranger grabbing 6-year-old in front of child's home

Yet with all these security cams, and supposedly millions of abductions according to some sources, I have yet to see any recording of an alien abduction, unless it's a fake or re-creation like this one:

So until we have something like that which isn't a fake for verifiable independent confirmation that someone was actually abducted by aliens, what you're saying is that nobody can be an expert on alien abduction, because nobody can prove they were abducted by aliens.

Dr. Clancy did interview many abductees in her research, and I don't see how recalling an abduction experience herself would make her any more qualified. Her research shows that people's recollections are sometimes completely inaccurate and she's not a special case who is immune to having inaccurate memories, so why would she believe her own memory of abduction more than anyone else's memory of abduction? Her scientific research shows her that she should not.

You might really believe you were abducted by aliens, and maybe you were, but I hope you understand why science researchers like Clancy need more than stories like yours since there are plausible scientific explanations for why people can have vivid memories of abductions similar to yours without actually being abducted.

Even if it really happened, how do we know it wasn't some guy like this doing the abductions?



I thought that might explain some abduction experiences, until I found out it's another fake. But even though it's fake it got me wondering if something like that is possible, that some people are actually being abducted in a manner that makes them think it was aliens, so the cops won't be looking for a human abductor. Possibly a few cases, but not in the millions as some have claimed is the number of people who may recall abduction experiences, with many unreported, as apparently your experience is not officially reported to MUFON or whoever.

a reply to: Arbitrageur



First off, I don’t believe they have earlobes

Second, I don’t even remember the conversation I had with my mother when we reappeared on our bicycles. She recounted what we said years later. We told our parents we saw a monster? I still suffer ptsd 40+ years later from it. I will never go back to that place. Hartsuff Park Rockland MA. It occurred late afternoon in Sept I believe.

I think people who have been abducted have been washed off their memories in most cases.

I would think that people that have been abducted, like me, are the experts of what they can remember anyways, and they are not suppose to talk about it. At least too much anyways.

My abduction story is posted here in full.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Before the term and meaning of “Sleep Paralysis” became widespread……it is highly likely that “Abductee’s” truly believed their experiences were other worldly.

But dimes to doughnuts, if they now would know about Sleep Paralysis and it’s symptoms characteristics….they would likely say that that is what they had experienced in hindsight…..……and so no longer would they believe they were abducted.

So then in theory that would skew the reported amounts of abduction cases to not be abduction cases at all….and should be discounted in any databases calculation’s tally……hence making abductions databases unreliable…..imo.

I also suspect that cases of Sleep Paralysis (the physical) included nightmares and dreams (the mental) happening at the same time…for a full body experience…..imo.

👽

With abduction, we always have to look at the big four: Budd Hopkins, Whitley Strieber, John Mack, and David Jacobs.

They were very adept and successful ufologists in their own right regarding abductions, and all of them were successful professionals in their careers before their abduction research.

In fact, these four, maybe along with Betty and Barney Hill, created and made popular the UFO abduction field.

There are others, but they are less known and influential.

Strieber is the most influential and still going strong. Mack was killed in a car accident in the UK in 2004, and Hopkins passed on, but David Jacobs is still going strong with his alien abduction and invasion scenario.

He and Hopkins agreed on the alien invasion scenario somewhat, but Jacobs has carried it to a far and sinister extreme. Hopkins, separately from the invasion scenario, had a very negative view of the alien abductors: how dare these little runt bastards kidnap people frightening the hell out of them kind of attitude.

He and Mack had great differences in their outlooks on the situation.

Mack, a decent guy, was more new age, spiritual, and open to the positive side of alien abductions, whereas Strieber is kind of all over the place. Willing to accept or look at any and all possibilities.

He and Hopkins had a falling out at one point over some of Strieber’s experiences. I think having to do with hypnosis.

Whatever we think of these four, they have brought a varied, lively, interesting, informative, and, I might add---entertaining---angle to ufology unmatched by practically anyone in the field.

a reply to: mirageman

Hahaha…miragemam just found out that making a thread about alien abductions that negates alien abductions is not a popular read because its wayyyy less fun than even a fabricated abduction story. Lol

Miragee, your data is nonsense for one simple, all too obvious reason. You posit that the data shows 90% of people reporting abductions are americans [implying a cultural cause] without correlating that ufo reporting centers [and even aliens within public consciousness/media] rarely are available or widely-known in most other countries on earth. So essentially you are just doing a study of the popularity and public recognition of ufo reporting centers in usa/canada/and some foggy country.

Seems unusual that you wouldnt point that out as an obvious weakness to the data.

a reply to: peaceinoutz

Sometimes the lively, entertaining angles have a sinister side to them too.

David Jacobs has had a rather chequered history to say the least. You could call it "sinister". Especially with some very strange requests to one of his so called patients. Which included sending her worn underwear to him.

Here's what his 'patient' said

...My former therapist contacted “alien abduction” researcher, David M. Jacobs, PhD, of Temple University (now retired), on my behalf in 2001. Jacobs subsequently suggested conducting hypnosis with me over the telephone. He led me to believe that I would be a research subject participating in scholarly research conducted under the auspices of Temple University, and he asked me to sign a research consent form citing the university.

Jacobs conducted ninety-one hypnotic regressions with me during thirty-seven hypnosis sessions, from December 2004 through February 2007. He conducted all the hypnosis sessions over the telephone, thousands of miles from my location. I was alone in my apartment, with no supervision.

While I was Jacobs’s research subject, his behavior, in my opinion, became increasingly bizarre and psychologically abusive. I have archived information about his conduct and research practices here, as I believe that it is a matter of public interest. I hope that this will help to prevent similar situations from happening to other research subjects in the future.

Emma Woods

So I'll reiterate what was said in the OP. Hypnosis is not reliable in recalling repressed memories.

These guys could be accused of harming psychologically vulnerable people. By encouraging them to believe they've been abducted by aliens. I am also unsure whether the hippocratic oaths and what legal protection, if any would, apply when being treated by such a person.

Sometimes it isn't just about fun and entertainment.

a reply to: Warriorone

Ha Ha!It is an American thing, though. We can't count cases that are unreported that you imagine might occur. That's a false premise.

A quarter of the world speaks English and could file a report. But the fact that organisations that collect UFO data tend to be in North America (and do nothing with it) already points to a cultural bias towards believing in such things. If it really was an issue in other countries, then they too would have such organisations.

originally posted by: KTemplar
a reply to: Arbitrageur

First off, I don’t believe they have earlobes

I'm not sure of your point? This "alien" on CNN didn't have any earlobes on the mask, you couldn't see his earlobes until he took off the mask:

Fife Symington

Second, I don’t even remember the conversation I had with my mother when we reappeared on our bicycles. She recounted what we said years later. We told our parents we saw a monster?

OK, thanks for explaining, anybody's memories of things that happened that long ago are usually a bit fuzzy.

I would think that people that have been abducted, like me, are the experts of what they can remember anyways, and they are not suppose to talk about it.

certainly you are the expert in what you remember, but you may lack expertise in how the human mind is capable of creating false but still vivid and very frightening memories, a topic Clancy has researched to a considerable extent. Like any scientist would do, she tried to sort out what was perceived or recalled versus what actually happened, which may or may not be the same.

a reply to: mirageman

Naturally, mm, my friend, you’ll emphasize the negative.
Allegations don’t mean they're true, though they may be.

I hope I didn’t imply these guys were saints; I’m sure I didn’t. But any entertainment value in anything can have a negative impact, from sports to movies, particularly in the violent category.

The point is this aspect of abduction research should be part of the conversation.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

certainly you are the expert in what you remember, but you may lack expertise in how the human mind is capable of creating false but still vivid and very frightening memories, a topic Clancy has researched to a considerable extent. Like any scientist would do, she tried to sort out what was perceived or recalled versus what actually happened, which may or may not be the same.

The scientific establishment within psychology, psychiatry and neurology, and other brain and mind-related fields certainly have expertise above the layman but they are wholly ignorant of vast aspects of consciousness and they know it. If they were so knowledgeable then why not fix all the serial and spree killers and the explosion of mental illnesses? They cant---so I wouldn’t, therefore, be so believing and confident in their overall expertise in the mind and brain and even the soul.

originally posted by: peaceinoutz
I wouldn’t, therefore, be so believing and confident in their overall expertise in the mind and brain and even the soul.

You don't need to be believing in their overall expertise in the mind and brain, I'm sure I don't.

Scientists however have documented false memories, and even shown that traumatic experiences sometimes have false memories associated with them, so the point in this thread isn't to solve serial murder cases, it's to demonstrate if memory is reliable and the science shows that sometimes it's completely unreliable, which is highly relevant to alien abduction claims with no scientifically corroborating evidence.

For example, this has nothing to do with alien abduction, yet it's highly relevant to alien abduction as far as demonstrating how people can be absolutely sure of traumatic memories which are false. It shows how unreliable our memories can be, and not just being fuzzy, but having completely wrong and yet vivid memories and even being confident of them. The scientists found no correlation between confidence in the memory and accuracy of the memory in this research.

You Have No Idea What Happened

a reply to: Arbitrageur

But doesn't that make every account given by a person false by default?
Is that really the truth, or the right approach, or is it
puts on tin foil hat
a conspiracy to discredit experiencers of extraordinary events?
Even if the interpretation might be false because we lack the right lingo that doesn't mean nothing has happened.

a reply to: peaceinoutz


Thank you!


My neighbor and I recalled the same incident, although we couldn’t figure out what the huge dark bipedal, who was crunching trees as he walked thru the woods in the other side of the swimming pond, we both saw it.

I refused to talk to her much further about it, in fact I was angry she brought it up years later. My response was, “I don’t know what we saw, but I don’t like red eyes”.



My son once went missing on his way home from a friends. This was 40+ years later. I ran around late at night screaming to find him as I knew something was wrong. His texts started to not make sense and just stopped. I came to some woods that I knew he would go through to come home, and my ptsd kicked in. The fear to go in there was palpable, I had to take deep breaths before running in to look for him. It was heart stopping scary for me. Anyways, I followed a police car up town who threw their lights on and sure enough they were headed to where he was. He was in an ambulance. His (friends) gave him Oxy and supplied him with alcohol. They wouldn’t answer my texts or my calls. Some nice family called 911. Not his friends! I lost it at the scene.

Now I’m rambling, sorry, point is, woods at night nearly stopped my heart 40 years later. I’m pretty tough, but that day in Sept has never left me.

There are real cases out there. I still won’t report it, but this place has been therapeutic somewhat and lead me to Missing 411 which is REAL!

a reply to: peaceinoutz

The story that unfolded was printed in a UFO magazine many years ago : Link. It's quite a story. I've not even touched the tip of the iceberg. It's really a question of Jacobs manipulating someone, who already suffered with a medical condition called somnambulism, into believing in aliens/alien hybrids and his personal ethics. That's the danger presented. Did he really believe aliens were abducting people, or was he using them like lab rats for his own research?

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Arbitrageur

But doesn't that make every account given by a person false by default?
Is that really the truth, or the right approach, or is it
puts on tin foil hat
a conspiracy to discredit experiencers of extraordinary events?
Even if the interpretation might be false because we lack the right lingo that doesn't mean nothing has happened.

A point I tried to make earlier was the difference between the past and present in terms of technology to corroborate stories.

In the past we didn't all have smartphones and security cams everywhere, but now we do. So if something extraordinary happens when someone has their smartphone with them, they should at least try to record it. Of course if you're paralyzed (a common aspect of abduction reports) that would be hard to do with a smartphone, but a security cam could still pick up an abduction, which has actually happened, just not by aliens.

If there is some independent recording of an event, which is the kind of data scientists would like to have, then we wouldn't have to reply on a memory alone.

Determining whether a memory is true isn't easy without such corroborating evidence but the old adage that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" applies, and Susan Clancy says something like that in her talk. I don't think that means we assume memories are false by default, it means they aren't considered reliable, in general.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Scientists however have documented false memories, and even shown that traumatic experiences sometimes have false memories associated with them, so the point in this thread isn't to solve serial murder cases, it's to demonstrate if memory is reliable and the science shows that sometimes it's completely unreliable, which is highly relevant to alien abduction claims with no scientifically corroborating evidence.

I agree with all of that but it might or might not apply to certain ufo related experiences. I don’t begrudge science at all but think it’s not as advanced enough to explain a huge or most if not all of consciousness reality...at least not yet.

a reply to: mirageman

And it's reported Hopkins turned away people whose experience didn’t fit into his preconceived notions.
Maybe Mack too.

And Jacobs has got a theory definitely impossible to prove…

Any ufo researcher can be of bad character-- just look at the Mufon scandals.

a reply to: mirageman

Great thread, starred and flagged.

The massive increase in abduction reports after 2010 is pretty curious. Was there an increase in UFO sightings during these years as well? Would be interesting to compare.

The U.S. centric nature of alien abductions isn't surprising, all things considered, and the phenomenon itself gets murky when you dig deep. That said, the lack of reports from many other countries does not necessarily mean there are no reports to be found. It could very well be people do have abduction experiences as much as we do, but do to various factors, from cultural, religious, and historical to political, people don't feel any need to report on it. For example, if you live in a culture where abduction type experiences are viewed as being the work of demons, spirits, angels, or other beings, this is not something you will report to researchers and authorities, but rather, spiritual or religious leaders. In some cultures, seeing a flying craft or object would not be something worth reporting, because it might not be viewed as mysterious, but part of their cultural narrative. For them, UFOs are not a mystery to be studied, but something they believe they already know the answer to. In other cases, people might live under oppressive, authoritarian regimes, and thus, do not trust institutions of any sort. They might be reluctant to report on anything, even to curious, non-governmental researchers, due to distrust on motives for asking such personal questions.

In the U.S., by contrast, we really don't have any sort of uniform cultural/social narrative historically to define UFOs. They are objects that should not exist. We have no normal cultural narrative describing flying craft where beings not human take people. Thus, when people experience such an event, we have no context to put it in, such as religious, psychic, cultural, whatever. It's just plain freaking weird, confusing, and not supposed to happen in reality as we understand it. Thus, it becomes something worth reporting on, since others are similarly confused.

Either way though, still great data collection here, and would be interesting to look deeper why the spike in reported cases.

originally posted by: peaceinoutz
a reply to: mirageman

And it's reported Hopkins turned away people whose experience didn’t fit into his preconceived notions.
Maybe Mack too.

And Jacobs has got a theory definitely impossible to prove…

Any ufo researcher can be of bad character-- just look at the Mufon scandals.

I've read both Secret Life and The Threat. IMHO, neither books convinced me of his dark, sinister narrative, and I found many of his claims to be highly questionable. The whole thing got more convoluted and crazy, and he expects the reader to take everything he says as irrefutable proof. They make better reading if you take them as some weird psychological horror fiction.

It doesn't surprise me that some people he "researched" have spoken out about him.

We must remember that these guys are frail human beings subject to all the bad stuff folks do, the good stuff, and in between. That's not to say they are or aren't.


So they're doing bad things doesn't necessarily negate any truth they have or support one way or the other.

Mack used to bill his alien abduction clients to the insurance company. That was criticized, but one thing doesn't have to tell about the truth about alien abduction.
There are no saints in this game or any game in this world, but the small world of a saint.