The West’s Weapons Won’t Make Any Difference to Ukraine

U.S. military equipment wouldn’t realistically help Ukrainians—or intimidate Putin.

By Samuel Charap, a senior political scientist at the Rand Corporation, and Scott Boston, a senior defense analyst at the Rand Corp.

January 21, 2022, 5:12 AM

foreignpolicy.com...

From time to time, it is necessary to look back and see what brilliance our think tanks offer up to our non-professional ears. I mean supposedly, these are the intellectual monsters of our time, especially when it comes to geopolitical strategy. And the RAND CORP., is one such think tank, and one of the more well known such think tanks.

Well, from think tank to stink tank, because every bit of evidence we have is that the west's weapons have most CERTAINLY helped Ukraine, and in a very big way. The recent Russian withdraw from Kherson marks one such point of Ukrainian gains, and in total contradiction to what the stink tankers offered up for analysis.

So what does this mean? It means their words are no more valuable than your own, and underscores the need to think for yourself from all available evidence. And preferably, without any preconceived notions. Because the RAND CORP most DEFINITELY GOT IT WRONG.

In fairness I think almost everyone underestimated Ukraine and vastly overestimated the Russian military.

In hindsight its maybe not surprising that a country with an economy the size of Spain couldn't maintain an effective military the size of Russia's.

a reply to: TrueAmerican

To be fair, hindsight is 20/20.

The situation has changed greatly since January, when this report came out.

They were just guessing back then and those weapons, in fact, DIDN'T keep Russia out, not that I put much faith in them anyway, just sayin..

Well all I know is that I will never listen to those cannon fodders ever again, or perhaps, take the opposite of their advisement as the more likely outcome. It's just scary to think how many times all these supposed experts KEEP getting it wrong. The supposed WMD's in Iraq, for example. We keep listening to "experts," only to find ourselves involved with more and more foreign wars, huge budget deficits, and leaving countries totally destroyed. Sick of it, I tell ya.

originally posted by: TrueAmerican
Well all I know is that I will never listen to those cannon fodders ever again, or perhaps, take the opposite of their advisement as the more likely outcome. It's just scary to think how many times all these supposed experts KEEP getting it wrong. The supposed WMD's in Iraq, for example. We keep listening to "experts," only to find ourselves involved with more and more foreign wars, huge budget deficits, and leaving countries totally destroyed. Sick of it, I tell ya.

But we won the Iraq war, remember? Obama said so.

The make a huge difference for people's bank accounts and the money laundering slush fund.

Not sure about them making much of a difference tactically besides delaying the inevitable and killing a lot more people. But that's the name of the game like it is in every other country we give weapons to, like Saudi Arabia.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
In fairness I think almost everyone underestimated Ukraine and vastly overestimated the Russian military.

And that is PRECISELY my point. Thank you. So keep overestimating and underestimating. Cause it's all BS.

a reply to: TrueAmerican

Isn't your last sentence contradictory to the OP of not listening to this think tank?


I would normally agree with your OP, but he seemed to frame his arguement to where he wasn't wrong about much. Other than as ScepticScott alluded to to which pretty much everyone was wrong about.

Not saying I disagree with arguement, but I don't know if this was the best example after the last couple of years.

The West’s Weapons Won’t Make Any Difference to Ukraine

Good then let Zelensky beg China for weapons since he doesn't seem to mind Xi rebuilding Ukraine.

a reply to: TrueAmerican

True , We ain't Givin' them Our Good Sheet . Just some Chinese KnockOffs on SALE . Easterm Europeans are SO Gullible ,

Signed , Hunter...........

This is intentional...

The department of defense knows who they are arming.

You give these lunatics a cruise missile they would just try and drop it in downtown Moscow. We send just enough weapons to keep them in the fight, but not give them an advantage.

I guess if Ukranian nazis want to be meat puppets for the American military industrial complex profits I won't really lose any sleep over it. I just feel sorry for the innocent people caught in the middle of this insanity.

originally posted by: MykeNukem
a reply to: TrueAmerican

To be fair, hindsight is 20/20.

I like to think reality has that kind of humor, where soon people will say that referring to the 2020 election and how in hindsight is obvious how this one great republic fell to the powers of corruption

Hind sight. How very 2020.

originally posted by: JAY1980
You give these lunatics a cruise missile they would just try and drop it in downtown Moscow.

And after the entire destruction of Ukraine and most of its infrastructure, WHAT IN THE HELL WOULD BE WRONG WITH THAT? Like Moscow doesn't deserve it?

There is a deal allegedly.

Russia said no more striking Ukrainian Energy grid.

The strikes on the Energy grid will resume if Ukraine tries anything else or oopise.

a reply to: JAY1980

I guess if Ukranian nazis want to be meat puppets for the American military industrial complex profits

On Twitter i do remember a tweet mentioning Ukrainians are fighting for "Investors" or something in between.

originally posted by: vNex92
a reply to: JAY1980

I guess if Ukranian nazis want to be meat puppets for the American military industrial complex profits

On Twitter i do remember a tweet mentioning Ukrainians are fighting for "Investors" or something in between.

I’m pretty sure Ukrainians are fighting for there country against foreign invaders.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Lindsey Graham & John McCain in Ukraine - Preparing for a proxy war with Russia

Ukrainians are fighting for there country against foreign invaders

Ukrainians are being used by US as a cannon fodder agaisnt Russia for its interests in Eastern Europe.
Russia had no choice but was dragged into Ukraine by the US.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

The US started the regime change in Kiev agaisnt viktor yanukovych over the Euro deal.
Ukraine protests after Yanukovych EU deal rejection

In the deal.

described an EU offer to lend Ukraine 610m euros (£510m; $828m) as inadequate and said it would need at least 20bn euros a year to upgrade its economy to "European standards".

McCain, Murphy Rally Ukraine Protesters

Both John McCain, Lindsey Graham, Chris Murphy appeared in Ukraine.



Victoria nuland (F The EU)

You talking about this RAND?

From January 2022

RAND Paper: US caused crisis in Ukraine to bankrupt EU

Source

In order to crush this political threat, a strategic plan, primarily focused on destroying the German economy, is presented. “Stopping Russian deliveries could create a systematic crisis that would be devastating for the German economy and indirectly for the European Union as a whole”, it states, and believes that the key is to draw the European countries into war. “The only possible way to ensure that Germany rejects Russian energy supplies is to draw both sides into the military conflict in Ukraine. Our continued actions in this country will inevitably lead to a military response from Russia. Russia is clearly not going to leave to the massive Ukrainian army’s pressure on the Donetsk People’s Republic without a military response. This would make it possible to portray Russia as the aggressive party and then implement the entire package of sanctions, which has already been drawn up”.

Copy of document - Weakening Germany, Strengthening The US

less weapons and its more the logistics that counts... in the winter keeping them warm and from freezing to death will be key if the tactics shift of training the new recruits offensive rather than defensive tactics is to be maintained through the winter.