AZ Gen says Army solders may not help Minuteman

I agree byrd, I asked my husband if off duty military personnel can engage in the activities of vigilantes and militia groups.

He told me that only if is requested by the state with the approval of the department of defense they can be mobilized in combine efforts with local police enforcement to help the community.

But on a volunteer endeavor like they minuteman they can not. Unless is approved by comand when they are off duty.

After all I was a military wife for 22 years.

[edit on 7-4-2005 by marg6043]

Originally posted by Byrd
I think the current news story shows how much the militia disrespect our country's laws. The harrassing actions they are engaging in are illegal.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Byrd, you knew it was just a matter of time before these people started taking liberties. I figure that this is just the tip of the iceberg. If I were an illegal, I'd try to cross the border in the morning hours when the Minutemen are all in full-blown hangover mode. To attempt it afternoon and through the night would be suicidal due to the Minuteboys continually liquoring themselves up and becoming more and more uncontrollable. I'm sorry to say that something very bad is going to happen in the near future, and I, for one, will not be surprised.

Peace

[edit on 7-4-2005 by Dr Love]

marg says:

"BTW "wetbacks" are from the islands in the Caribbean because they come across the water."

¡No sabe Ud. su propia historia y la cultura! Los migrantes mexicanos fueron llamados "wetbacks" a causa del cruce del Rio Grande por la frontera entre de Mexico y Tejas.

Originally posted by Off_The_Street
marg says:

"BTW "wetbacks" are from the islands in the Caribbean because they come across the water."

¡No sabe Ud. su propia historia y la cultura! Los migrantes mexicanos fueron llamados "wetbacks" a causa del cruce del Rio Grande por la frontera entre de Mexico y Tejas.

Gracias Senor por la informacion.

I had not clue that it was for the Rio Grande, after all I am Puertorrican and the only people that I was awared of was from the Caribean.

No, I don't know my culture, I am from the Caribean not Mexico.

Thanks for the bit of info Senor "The_La_ Calle"

Viva!!! the Minutemen. Maybe both the Democrates and Republicans will start doing the will of the people and control our borders

Sorry marg!

I just assume that every hispanic I meet is from Mexico. Maybe tht's because I live near la frontera rather than in a place where there are a lot of puertorriquenas LOL.

Red-faced OTS

Originally posted by shots
Why are the rights of the solders to protest being taken away from them is what I want to know?

Soldiers do not have a right to protest to begin with, you give that up when you join.

I agree with the Minutemen idea but there is a reason for keeping soldiers out of things like that. It could create conflicts of intrest OR give the impression that the Military backed (whatever)

Originally posted by Amuk

Originally posted by shots
Why are the rights of the solders to protest being taken away from them is what I want to know?

Soldiers do not have a right to protest to begin with, you give that up when you join.

So what you are saying is that anyone who joins the military gives up there first amendment rights

I do not think so, but certainly will allow you to show me the regulation or any official document that states this is fact.

Originally posted by shots

So what you are saying is that anyone who joins the military gives up there first amendment rights

I do not think so, but certainly will allow you to show me the regulation or any official document that states this is fact.

I am not an expert on military law but I know they stress staying away from political stances. The do not endorce a candidate for example ( or didnt when I was in).

To be honest I dont know the official stand exactly but I am sure there is someone out there that could enlighten us both.

Originally posted by shots

So what you are saying is that anyone who joins the military gives up there first amendment rights

I do not think so, but certainly will allow you to show me the regulation or any official document that states this is fact.

No, they do not give their rights, but they are under the UCMJ (Unform Code Of Military Justice).

Under this code, Military personnel can not do anything that will affect direct or indirect the US government.

In other words an active military personnel can not join the minuteman due to the protest that the minuteman is doing against the president for lack of keeping the borders safe.

That is considered a type of misconduct under the UCMJ as protesting against the Commander in Chief.

www.au.af.mil...

Have fun reading it, my husband still keeps his littler "bible of the UCMJ" with him because even after retirement he still gets retirement pay and he still has to follow certain rules.



[edit on 7-4-2005 by marg6043]

Originally posted by Amuk

To be honest I dont know the official stand exactly but I am sure there is someone out there that could enlighten us both.

Frankly I do not know either, however you sure implied you did when your said

Soldiers do not have a right to protest to begin with, you give that up when you join.

I guess all one can do is wait for the military experts around hee huh



P.S. I sure hope they have the regulations that state this is so if and when they do reply

Originally posted by shots
Frankly I do not know either, however you sure implied you did when your said

Not quite all I said was they were not allowed to protest against the Government. I never said I knew the EXACT rule that spelled it out. I know murder is illegal but dont know the EXACT law that prohibits it either.

BTW see the post form Marg

Originally posted by Amuk

BTW see the post form Marg

Why bring Marg into this, she never made the comment? However I will admit I did read her comments albeit as biased as they are.

Originally posted by marg6043

But on a volunteer endeavor like they minuteman they can not.

Unless is approved by comand when they are off duty.

After all I was a military wife for 22 years.

[edit on 7-4-2005 by marg6043]

Ok Marg if you are so sure and considering what Amuk said, I will ask you this, Prove what you say is fact and not fiction? Please be sure to include the regulation that pohibits them from doing so when they are off duty and not in uniform.

Shot, I posted the reason why military personnel can not protest against the government is the post after the last one of amuk.

And by the way it may look bias to you but is military law.

Originally posted by marg6043
Shot, I posted the reason why military personnel can not protest against the government is the post after the last one of amuk.

And by the way it may look bias to you but is military law.

Kindly use your own source and point out the specifc law that applies in this case. Keep in mind I did not make the statement you did, it is not up to me to prove your point, that is your burden.

In other worlds an active military personnel can not join the minuteman due to the protest that the minuteman is doing against the president for lack of keeping the borders safe.

That is considered a type of misconduct under the UCMJ as protesting against the Commander in Chief.

www.au.af.mil...

As you said happy reading; make darn sure you quote the specific paragraph and chapter that says they cannot do it.

Shots my husband a retire Marine of 22 years said is in it, and I trust him, so you find it.

I think you are becoming a littler bit to hostile.

Better yet go to your nearest military base and ask them why.

[edit on 7-4-2005 by marg6043]

Originally posted by marg6043
Shots my husband a retire Marine of 22 years said is in it, and I trust him, so you find it.

[edit on 7-4-2005 by marg6043]

No No Marg that is not the way it works in the real world. You are the one stated it as fact. It is up to you to prove it is fact not me. And No I am not Hostile, I am simply asking you to prove what you stated is in fact a true statement.

Just because your husband says it is so does not make it so; until he/you can produce the exact regulation that states it is not allowed.

Originally posted by shots
Just because your husband says it is so does not make it so; until he/you can produce the exact regulation that states it is not allowed.

What are you 12?

I cant find the exact regulation that prohibits Murder either and am not going to wade through a stack of Military Regs to save your life much less to prove a point to you, believe it or not it doesnt matter to me.

Come on back now and stamp your foot and say "but you didnt prove it" while sticking your fingers in your ears.....LOL



[edit on 7-4-2005 by Amuk]

Originally posted by Amuk


I cant find the exact regulation that prohibits Murder either and am not going to wade through a stack of Military Regs to save your life much less to prove a point to you, believe it or not it doesnt matter to me.

Come on back now and stamp your foot and say "but you didnt prove it" while sticking your fingers in your ears.....LOL

[edit on 7-4-2005 by Amuk]

Nope not going to stamp my feet at all. here is what it says

B. Freedom of Speech Service members, like other citizens, have a right to express themselves. However, the right to engage in free speech does not provide an absolute immunity from subsequent punishment if the speech violates a criminal law. In the military, such criminal laws include:

1. Disrespectful speech toward superiors;

2. Use of words or gestures that might provoke a fight;

3. Disclosure of classified information;

4. Discussing official matters outside of the military without proper authorization.

As you can see they do have a right to free speech although there are some exceptions as noted in 1,2,3 and 4 above.

Farther down it states.

D. Right to Peaceful Assembly
1. Demonstrations.

a. a commanding officer may prohibit on-base demonstrations if a legitimate finding is made that such demonstrations may present a clear and present danger to good order, discipline, and morale;

b. the commanding officer may prohibit servicemembers from attending off-base demonstrations under circumstances that would provide for a material interference with the military mission;

c. servicemembers should not be in uniform while attending demonstrations or public group meetings because it will appear to civilians that the military is giving its official support to a particular group.

As you can see paragraph c. clearly states the only requirement is when attending a demonstation they cannot be in uniform, it does not state they cannot demonstrate as Marg has contended her husband claimed blah blah blah.


Edit to add source of the above information.

www.au.af.mil...





[edit on 4/8/2005 by shots]