Nothing Changes In Russia

a reply to: Kenzo

As a general rule of thumb - and I openly acknowledge it's a massive generalisation - I'd say Russia has a bloody, great big chip on its collective shoulder.
Russia seems to be constantly trying to prove that its one of the big boys, that it deserves a seat at the high table.
They have this paranoid delusion that nobody likes them and the whole world is against them.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Kenzo

As a general rule of thumb - and I openly acknowledge it's a massive generalisation - I'd say Russia has a bloody, great big chip on its collective shoulder.
Russia seems to be constantly trying to prove that its one of the big boys, that it deserves a seat at the high table.
They have this paranoid delusion that nobody likes them and the whole world is against them.

You have a legitimate claim, unfortunate for them though, Titos vodka is better than what they can produce. They want to sit at the big boy table they shouldn't produce #

a reply to: Freeborn


Yes the need to be big and powerfull, and paranoid...i have seen those . They also like to purport oneself to be allways victims no matter what is the reality.

Their chronic grudge against Ukrainians is something else, obsession to hurt them and do it even when it greates great destruction to Russia itself.

I think Russia deserves the critic from rest of the World after it`s started the genocide project in Ukraine.

a reply to: Kenzo

I am from Estonia and we haven't seen this level of media censorship here since soviet union. Even the censorship with Covid wasn't as bad. A lot of people here just want the politicians stop escalating the conflict and we know that they are escalating this for their personal political gain. You can't comment on any of the news that even mention the situation with Ukraine and Russia and any anti-war sentiment is tried to be labeled as the "work of Russian trolls".
Our politicians are singing the song that is given to them, because it will advance their careers in the bureaucratic corridors of EU.
For instance we have a politician here who is probably most hated among the politicians here, not just by the other party fanboys but her own party followers as well. She got caught red-handed with stealing and lying, but nothing happened. Investigation was slowed as much as possible, prosecutors suddenly turned blind and clueless and the case was dismissed on the case of "lack of public interest", even though people were furious. Some years later, she was promoted to become the Minister of Finance, and now couple of days ago, she proclaimed proudly how she will "quit politics" by taking a seat at European Court of Auditors (ECA). The most corrupt politician we have and she was offered a job where honesty and integrity is the most important part.
And this crap has happened here for a long time already, where the politicians make decisions that are not good for Estonia, but serve the orders of the big boys in EU structures. For that they receive new comfortable jobs in those EU structures.

We know that the warmongering, conflict escalating politicians wouldn't see or hear one explosion when the sh*t hits the fan. They will retreat to the safest bunkers and more likely even skip country in case of war and start to give slushy speeches about patriotism and sacrifice.

This kind of mentality is seen with the warmongers in US and UK also. They want war, because they want to see death and destruction on TV and excitedly write long posts on the internet about that. They just care about their boring little lives having more excitement. They don't care if people who don't want to do anything with war have to suffer for it.

Russians are like any other people on earth. There are same amount of bad ones and good ones. And like with every nation on earth, a lot of the bad ones are in politics.
Trying to dehumanize Russians or trying to make them seem like "differed breed of people" is just regular war propaganda that has existed since the creation of printing press. Just look at the paintwork how North-Koreans portray US troops and now try to compare how the media is trying to paint Russians.
There are always zealots who buy the war propaganda and and there always be ones who refuse to buy this political crap and just want to live in peace.

a reply to: eitea

I dont know enough about Estonian domestic issues to comment about politicians, but i say this . This has been past any political relationship between European countrys and Russia, since Russia has it`s own agenda/goal to get more Lebensraum, and it has shown it will try to get it de facto , even when it makes no sense to Russia itself because they hit their own foot and so they are willing to take huge risk by doing it. That`s the behaviour of irrational country.

So It`s not up to Estonian politicians, they can be friendly or not friendly , but Russia will try proceed their agenda not matter what . Russia acts as irrational way, so no matter what Estonia or other countrys do ,wont guarantee anything, by that i mean friendly chit chat wont guarantee anything, we are now past that time.

Get it? We are talking about country that acts irrational . Even when had quite normal relationship without war, like what Finland had , the potential danger hit the fan allready when Russia attacked sovereign country in Europe, country it had earlyer signed treaty to respect country borders etc....

When country behave like Russia has, other can not trust it . Where do you get the idea that USA, UK ,NATO wants war with Russia ? I dont agree with that.

The warmongering and the need to escalate was done by Russia, they started the hate speech, propaganda, lies before they attack Ukraine.

This war has had quite wide approval originally in Russia, as was also in the illegal annexion of Crimea. The exact approval numbers are impossible to get as russia is not open honest country, polls are not as reliable like in Western countrys.

Nobody wanted this , countrys wanted peace and normal relatioships....but Russia had other things in mind and here we are.

a reply to: Kenzo

Russia won't try to proceed their agenda no matter what.
For instance, if some local billionaire would create and fund paramilitary groups who would turn the lives of the russian speaking minority in the east hellish, then the situation would be different. Then it would be exactly like in Ukraine.

Even when I don't like politicians in general, I sometimes think that we don't have it this bad, at least our government has more sense then the Ukrainian government. Our policy used to be similar, with the russian speaking minority in the east neglected. Poverty and crime ruled there, because no attention was given to develop this region. Because, well "f** the ruskiis" right.
Luckily around 10 years ago our politicians came to their senses that the well being of that minority is directly linked to our national defense. Now there has been a lot of development in east by creating new projects and job opportunities. And the russian speaking minority is generally happy there. They like to be apart of Estonia and they would have no reason to hate our country or the quality of living standards that it provides when compared to Russia.

It has been totally different with Ukraine tho. Not only was the eastern part neglected, but the paramilitary groups, composed mainly of untrained civilians, made everyday life terrible there. They did what they want and there was no police to guard the local population from the guys who had the biggest guns.

That is the reason for the entire conflict. The media likes to paint Russia as irrational, but in reality they have just as much of a reason or more as was given for Iraq, Afghanistan or Libya.
I think that I'm not telling anything that someone hasn't told before, but the hardcore zealots who can only see black and white refuse to acknowledge how fubar things were in east Ukraine after 2014 and why a lot of people there lost any faith in the competence of Ukrainian central government.

a reply to: eitea

You might be from Estonia ( with caps on for the country´s first letter .. indeed with respecting ) but are your roots in Estonia ? There are quite many russians living in Estonia over 300 k of them. So can you state you have estonian roots? With your propaganda i am curious about that.

a reply to: dollukka

Both my parents come from families who have been native Estonians for 4 generations. Before that, the roots come from both Sweden and Germany. So, yeah, I'm a native Estonian and the Estonian language is my main language. Sadly my Russian language needs some improvement and I have been lazy with that. I can manage simple conversations, but mostly I speak in English or one speaks Estonian and the other one Russian, when dealing with the Russian speaking minority here.

We don't have many Russians, but we do have around 300k of Russian-speaking Estonians. Preferred language and nationalities are two different things.

I find it funny that someone would think that my roots would have anything to do with my view on politics. I consider myself as a human being, and I see other humans just like that, humans..not by their preferred language, nationality or race. If I look for the differences in people, then I look at their intelligence, education, compassion, morals and ethics.

a reply to: eitea

Experts: Estonia has successfully integrated nearly 90% of its ethnic Russians

***
The 340,000 ethnic Russians in Estonia are an extremely diverse group. Many have learned Estonian and become Estonian citizens, tying their future to that country. Approximately 90,000 have the so-called “grey passports” of non-citizens who have permanent residence and who are overwhelmingly interested in being part of Estonia and Europe.

experts-estonia-successfully-integrated-nea rly-90-ethnic-russians

I was talking about ethnic Russians you turned into russian speaking estonians. So who are these 340 K ethnic russians in Estonia?
Do they have two citizenships one for Russia and one for Estonia, or property owners and russian begin with?

It is funny how you try to cover that up.

a reply to: eitea

Yeeh well , i really think it was Putin / FSB was ordered the destabilization in Eastern Ukraine. I am not denying that there was indeed problems between people of different ethnic backgrounds then, but that`s still quite different scale compared to what it come, after Russia pushed destabilization there. And if you want names, FSB colonel Igor Girgin ( Strelkov )

And other thing is , since the Eastern Ukraine was by international law area of Ukraine, dont you think they are responsible to keep order there ? It just dont work that way , that some group just claim okey we break up now from this country X and that`s it, stay away . By international law that area was Ukraine, so when Girgin and other from Russian special operations entered there to cause problems, it would be odd if Ukraine would not try to stop the plot .

In recent years ..Catalonia wanted to declare form an independent republic, but it was illegal ,simple as that .

Why the referendum on Catalan independence is illegal





News Ukraine War Business Opinion Arts and Life Podcasts Newsletters RU Russia's Igor Strelkov: I Am Responsible for War in Eastern Ukraine


They should had deal with different tactics there then, diplomacy, negotiation etc...but things got heated pretty fast and then people started to die on both side.

a reply to: dollukka

We have some that have two passports, we call them "grey passport holders", most have only Estonian passport and I do consider them as Estonian. Just like a would consider anyone who would mainly speak Finnish, Swedish or English while being Estonian citizens.

But please, tell me more how exactly things are in the country I have lived all my life in.

a reply to: eitea

Just curious. So you lived in Estonia during the time when Soviet Union fell down, the time Estonians achieved their independence. Tell us curious ones what made USSR so good for you that you believe Putin is better than your own government, i find it somewhat bizarre. I visited Estonia once in time it was under USSR rule and i found it quite depressing.. actually took a flight back in same evening. Visited again when Estonia was free, it was more open then, i could say many estonians felt somewhat bumptious towards tourists ( in same way that french are ) they wanted our money for their businesses but lacked kindness.. rather cold attitude i believe it was due language differences and estonians did not really wanted to speak english.
How was life under USSR in Estonia ?

a reply to: Kenzo

In 2014, when the maidan crap started, our company took many Ukrainians to work in Estonia, some from the western Ukraine and some from eastern Ukraine, who came here when stuff went bad there. Very good workers and good guys in general. One guy from the eastern side was unemployed in Ukraine, unable to find any work for months, while his wife was a cook in school, earning 80€ a month. So, you can imagine how happy the guy was with the opportunity to earn 15-20x more, doing the same work with a lot better working conditions.

Yes, Ukrainian central government should have kept order in the east and that would have kept this situation happening. But the government just didn't care. When most people in their country became poorer, they became richer. The President/Produced/Actor is an errand boy to a local criminal/warlord/media mogul and they have not even tried to hide that fact. Kolomoisky is the kind of guy who don't care about anyone else. He built paramilitary groups to be used as his own personal muscle. Businesses were taken over on gunpoint, not just from the Russian-speaking minority there, but also from fellow native Ukranians who stood in his way. Talks lasted for a long time, with Russian side telling to get their sh*t together there and stop the lawless rule of the fist that was happening. Ukranian(Kolomoisky's through Zelenskiy) response was always just "F** Off, we are doing whatever we want in our country!", because their bet was that Putin won't do anything because of the fear of NATO's assistance. This escalated for a long time after it culminated into the situation we are in now.

So yeah, I have good personal experiences with Ukrainians, but I consider their government as the worst from worst.

a reply to: dollukka

Don't remember much good about USSR, because it was ruled by socialists who kept messing everything up with central planned economy. We had constant deficit EVERYWHERE. For instance when my parents visited West Germany in the 80's then the main thing I wished for was bananas, since they were such a rare commodity.

And what does USSR have to do with Putin? - NOTHING! Comparing a socialist totalitarian state to a rather radical capitalist is plain stupid.
And btw. what a lot of Estonians don't like to talk about. When there was USSR rule, then a lot of them who benefited from this rule, and getting all the advantages were non-other then fellow Estonians. The older generation laughs here how back in the days they talked how USSR is not that bad and we should just accept it. When the economy started to collapse in the 80's and even the fridges of "the privileged" started to be empty, then all of the sudden they discovered their passionate patriotism towards Estonian independence and when we got our independence, then those Estonians who used to be lackeys for USSR, suddenly were the loudest on independence and trying to find their way back to the power circles with a lot of them succeeding. Because well, the general population has a 3 second attention span and memory.
Just like it was with Covid. The same people who laughed and arrogantly called those "flat earthers", who were questioning the the general narrative, are now walking around with faces like they have always found that scheme fishy.

So yeah, I think that nationality has nothing to do with the quality of a person.
There is a same amount of the same type of people in every nation, and mostly they are just too dumb to realize, that those who they hate from another nation, are the same type of person who they'll see in the mirror.

a reply to: eitea

No doubt Ukraine had many problems, corruption etc , but it was also partly because the state itself was not matured much since independence , there was big problems...i am not denying that .

But to start armed rebellion, illegal referendum, secret aid from Russia , then annex of Crimea...

They go too far . All regions also voted to want Ukraine independence 1991 ,including Eastern Ukraine and Crimea .

a reply to: dollukka


PM for dollukka

a reply to: Kenzo

Here is also a good map to explain the situation:

www.washingtonpost.com...

Things started to go downhill from 2014, not later. The armed groups consisted of eastern Ukranians who saw that, the candidate who they supported was taken down by brute force and replaced by a rule that was popular to the western Ukranians. This made people starting to lose hope in a fair unified government and they saw taking arms and also using force , as justified. Of course Putin saw the opportunity to spread influence there by supporting it, like any other expansionist country has done when they see the opportunity.

Do I consider this right? No way! But do I consider Russian Federation doing anything that NATO countries haven't done in the last decade? No way!

If it was up to me, then I would send in UN peacekeepers, with observers from all the sides and would play out the referendums then and let every majority decide wherever they want to belong.

But, it is not up to me. It is up to crooked politicians from both sides who need this conflict for their personal gain. With the Covid fiasco, the economy and finance was messed up globally. The powers in charge of NATO countries and Russian Federation sang the same song with covid and participating in creating the same havoc. Now they are scared that the hungry people with pitchforks will soon come knocking. So, they need this conflict and killing to continue, to keep people paralyzed with fear, not able to see how much they actually screwed up.
When "the news" is keeping the people hypnotized on the war, then people don't have enough time to think on who is responsible for the mess that was created. And of course, all the sides have an external enemy now, who will be blamed on all the shortcomings of local managment

originally posted by: eitea
a reply to: dollukka


And what does USSR have to do with Putin? - NOTHING! Comparing a socialist totalitarian state to a rather radical capitalist is plain stupid.

Actually quite a lot it has to do with Putin. That was the time Putin got his training, he was devastated when USSR fell down. Putins hero is Stalin the ruler which made Estonians life unbearable and poor. Stalin made sure russians in Estonia were first class citizens when Estonians had less rights and poorer jobs. Putin is after Estonia and every other land which were part of USSR.. you should hope his rule will end soon.
Estonians first step after USSR fall was to join NATO, you should think why it was crucial.

a reply to: dollukka

Nice, now you are not only telling me how things are and were in my country. Now you are also telling who Putin's heroes are. Almost like Putin would be your personal friend, telling you all of this. The Internet truly is amazing.

But check this out. I actually tried this new thing called google and typed in "Putin's views on Stalin" and what did I find in under a minute:

Puting telling Oliver Stone about his views on Stalin:

“Stalin was a product of his time, and there are different opinions about him, from demonizing him to acknowledging his role in fight against Nazism. English history has Cromwell. He came to power during revolution and became a bloody tyrant, but his monuments are everywhere in UK. Napoleon is almost a God in France. He also came to power after revolution and not only reinstalled the monarchy but made himself the Emperor and has lead France to national disaster. There are many figures like that in world history.
Excessively demonizing Stalin is a means to attack Soviet Union and Russia. Russia has changed radically. Of course, something still remains in the mind, but it does not mean that we have to forget all the horrors of Stalinism, the concentration camps and the destruction of millions of his compatriots”

a reply to: eitea

I agree on solid and fair referendums in Ukraine. But i doubt Russia agrees with that. But there is an issue .. when Crimea was taken by Russia, Russia made sure more that plenty of Russians will be located to Crimea.. is that fair ? ask yourself.

Not long ago Putin said " Russia has no borders" think about it awhile and let it sink in what he means.