Biden: Americans working in Chinese tech must quit and come back to US or lose their citizenship

a reply to: Roxstar

The first thing a Canadian needs to do in order to work in the states is to apply for a work visa. It depends on your qualifications and the job you are seeking.

Types of work visa's:
TN-1 - Under the US Canada Mexico Agreement (USMCA) qualifying Canadian business professionals with job offers or contracts with US-based companies are able to obtain TN-1 visa status to work in the United States. There are 63 qualifying professions available under TN-1 visa status. If you are Canadian and you have a job offer in the US, you may be eligible for TN-1 visa status under the USMCA. If you qualify for TN-1 visa status you can apply the same day at a port of entry and begin working in the United States right away.

H-1B - The H-1B visa is designated for those working in qualifying specialty occupations. A specialty occupation is a profession that requires at least a 4-year degree or the equivalent years of experience. In many cases when your profession doesn’t fall under the TN visa professions list, the H-1B might be your only option. There is a limit on the number of H-1B visas issued each year and they are subject to an annual lottery. If you are a Canadian and your profession requires an H-1B visa, you should plan well in advance.

L-1 - If you are a Canadian citizen and you work for a company that has offices in the United States, you may qualify for an L-1 visa. The L-1 visa was created for the transfer of employees between qualifying US companies and their related foreign entities. Those working in executive, managerial or specialized knowledge positions can qualify to work in the US under the L-1 visa. If you are a Canadian citizen being transferred to the United States offices of your Canadian employer, you might qualify for the L-1 intracompany transfer visa.

O-1 - The O-1 Visa category has been designated for Canadian citizens that can demonstrate they have achieved extraordinary ability in the sciences, arts, education, business, or athletics, or who have a demonstrated record of extraordinary achievement in the motion picture or television industry and have been recognized nationally or internationally for those achievements. If you are a Canadian citizen and can demonstrate achievement of extraordinary ability in your field, you might qualify for an O-1 visa.

E-1 / E-2 - The E- Visa category has been designated for Canadian businesses and professionals that participate in the trade of goods or services primarily with the United States. If you are a Canadian business or professional that conducts more than 50% of your international business (Excluding Canada) with the United States, you might qualify for the E-2 visa as a trader.

As for Green Cards for Canadians -
U.S. permanent residency is commonly referred to as a green card. If you are a green card holder, you are a permanent resident. The green card allows a Canadian to live, work and reside full-time in the United States. Canadians are eligible for green cards through one of the four methods:

Marriage Green Card for Canadians
Employment Green Card for Canadians
Family Green Card for Canadians
Investor Green Card for Canadians

A Green card essentially covers everything needed to live and work in the States.

As I said it all depends on the industry you're coming from and what type of job you want in the states. Broadly speaking Canadian citizens cannot just apply for US citizenship. They need to have a green card and lived in the states for a certain amount of time. It depends on the different types of Green cards listed above.

* - Additional info for you with links to the US government resources.
US Embassy and Consulates in Canada


IMPORTANT NOTE - I am NOT a lawyer nor do I work for the US Federal Government. There is info put out by immigration lawyers on both sides (US / CAN) that specifically deal with the questions you asked. I highly recommend you speak to one of those types of lawyers who would have better info than I am providing.

originally posted by: Roxstar
Americans working at certain tech firms in China must quit and come back to the US, or risk losing their citizenship. This is a very bold move by Biden. It actually sounds more like something Trump would do, not Biden. Especially since the Biden's are heavily invested in China.
It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. Apparently many have already resigned which is looking like it is causing major disruptions in China.

And I had to get off the property of every Chinese-managed tech firm I applied to work at when I graduated high school and later college. I don't want these people back in my country either. I couldn't buy any of their intellectual property and mental health crap.

How do you.."un" citizen someone?

Not buying this, not as described anyway.

originally posted by: Annee
As much as I'd love manufacturing in the USA -- it's just not realistic.

We can't compete.

I think people will give up their US citizenship rather than come back under force.

you might be right.

these people are all set up there.

primo housing, money, everything.

i'm sure the ccp will be offering incentives to stay.

a reply to: vonclod

sounds more a threat to those the Chinese are approaching the UK are trying to make it illegal for those with the skills China wants to go there..

the problem for the West is it has nothing but conspiracies, a divided population, insane media, poor wages and negativity to stem the brain drain..

all they have can see are the tools of autocrats while crafting a positive society is simply not what they are capable of which is speeding up the process of change..

a reply to: sarahvital

to be fair what have they got to look forward to coming back to the west? angry divided populations? not just these but all the skilled workers and military expertise China has acquired from across the west..

or stop those they are still head hunting to go to China

this is an immense self inflicted wound.

what's the big deal anyway, just fly to mexico

and walk across the border, might even get a flight home.

a reply to: Annee

I do believe Hell has just frozen over Annie. I agree with you... maybe not for the same reasons, but I do agree with your conclusion.

We can't compete.

You're right; we can't. But it has nothing to do with American workers being too expensive or incapable... it has to do with raw materials.

Semiconductors, as a rule, are made with either a silicon or germanium substrate. Silicon is easy... sand is sililca, aka silicon dioxide. We got plenty of sand. Germanium is maybe a little harder to come by, but we do have some germanium in the USA if memory serves, and germanium accounts for only a few percent of the number of semiconductors. Well over 95% are silicon based.

What we do not have are the rare earth elements. China has almost all of those on the planet. It's not that China was somehow blessed with huge deposits of rare earths; it is that China has a mining infrastructure that uses waste from processed ores of other metals to then extract the rare earths. Rare earths occur worldwide, but in microscopic quantities. The only way to approach anything resembling efficiency is to do things the way China does.

As an example, say China has a copper mine. They dig up the copper ore, smelt the copper out of it, then run the waste through an additional refining process. Maybe they'll lanthanum; maybe yttrium; maybe cesium; maybe scandium; maybe a combination. They don't get much, but at this point it beats just tossing the waste back in the ground and forgetting about it.

And it doesn't take much. Semiconductors, as a rule, are not made of rare earth elements; semiconductor manufacturing uses rare earth elements to dope/ion implant the needed impurities into a silicon substrate that turns it into a functional semiconductor. Without rare earths, it is physically impossible to produce semiconductors with present technology. One might as well try to make clothing without cloth.

Now, we could start doing the same thing here. We have plenty of mines, and all mines will produce rare earths. But there's a problem in the USA: refinement of these rare earth elements creates a LOT of pollution! I'm talking a single mine can make a hundred acres uninhabitable for life! Not only are the rare earths often a health issue themselves, but the chemicals required to extract them from the waste ore are extremely nasty.

How does China do it? They have plenty of land that is not used for anything, so they just set it aside and pollute to their hearts' content. We don't have many large areas that we are willing to do that with... the country is pretty well populated overall, and where it isn't we have national parks and organic resources (like forests). Plus we have environmentalists. China doesn't have those; if they find one roaming loose, they tend to kill it.

There are advantages to being communist, I suppose.

That's why China/Taiwan supplies such a massive number of semiconductors. They have essentially cornered the market, and this has been going on for decades. It's nothing new, just something most people are not well aware of. Every production model of anything that contains electronic circuitry and the vast, vast bulk of solar products come from China/Taiwan, including all that fancy military hardware, computers, automobiles, entertainment appliances (TVs, etc), even the smart electrical meters are made from parts produced exclusively in China/Taiwan.

The only semiconductors which are not made in China/Taiwan are prototypes. If Intel or AMD wants to make 10 of their newest processors, they can do so without going to China. The cost will be 10-100 times as much, because the needed rare earths available from other countries is minuscule, and the price is astronomical. But try to make a production run of 100,000 or even 10,000 units and there's not enough rare earths to do it, unless one has it done in China/Taiwan.

Incidentally, one cannot purchase rare earths from China. China uses what they refine to get more profit out of their manufacturing base and keep competition low. The export restrictions on rare earths are awe-inspiring. They do the same with solar cells, by the way... one can buy solar cells from China, but the mark-up at export is so much that China can actually produce finished solar products and sell them cheaper than they can sell used, surplus solar cells by themselves. I have worked with surplus suppliers all my life, but I can buy a set of solar-powered sidewalk lights at retail cheaper than I can buy the solar cells in them alone wholesale from a surplus dealer!

So you're absolutely right: we can''t compete. We don't have the materials or the infrastructure in place to get the materials, and we wouldn't install that infrastructure if we could.

I think people will give up their US citizenship rather than come back under force.

No President has that authority. Biden couldn't strip someone of their citizenship if he wanted to, except under very tightly defined conditions. That's what we call around these parts a "bluff." Some people will believe it, I'm sure, and if they believe it they will act upon that belief... but their citizenship is safe.

As has been said, this is just a bunch of political posturing for an upcoming election cycle. Biden is spitting enough hot air to make 100 F5 tornadoes. But a lot of people will fall for it... just look at how many in this thread are claiming Biden "finally did something right." The reality is that if his bluff fails, he has accomplished nothing but to threaten innocent American citizens, and if it works he could stop the manufacturing industry in the USA dead in its tracks... like it isn't already almost stopped now. No chips = no gadgets to make and sell.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

not just Biden or these skills its across the board it seems the headhunting started ramping up when covid kicked in.. even to the point of going after f35 pilots to help the Chinese military defeat the f35.. it goes across all fields air sea and land alongside targeting manufacturing and design skills..

the issue is massive and I can see various govs placing some skillsets under the national security banner and framing it all along the lines of treason..

a reply to: nickyw

sounds more a threat to those the Chinese are approaching the UK are trying to make it illegal for those with the skills China wants to go there..

Sure, I'm just not sure how they could do it though, by what mechanism?

the problem for the West is it has nothing but conspiracies, a divided population, insane media, poor wages and negativity to stem the brain drain..

I agree, it's pretty bad, very divided, I'm just not convinced there is much different going on outside of the West, maybe different, but lots of fear and economic pressure.

all they have can see are the tools of autocrats while crafting a positive society is simply not what they are capable of which is speeding up the process of change..

It's speeding up exponentially.

a reply to: nickyw

The problem I am speaking of isn't as simple as just nationalizing skillsets... if one denies the necessary labor to China to manufacture semiconductors, then China might not make enough semiconductors to go around.

Back in, I think it was the 90s, one of the two plants in China that made the plastic cases that semiconductors are packaged in (that's the part you can actually pick up and solder in place... the actual chip is so tiny it would be impossible to reflow solder) burned to the ground. Suddenly, I couldn't order parts for my work! Transistors were in short supply and were selling for three times their previous value, SSI chips (like op-amps and digital logic, which I use frequently) were hit-and miss and ten times their previous price, and LSI/VLSI chips like processors were all but impossible to get. That went on for a few years until the plastics plant was rebuilt and was able to catch up with production.

One fire... half the capacity... and chips are suddenly few and far between. Now imagine if Biden's actions cause a labor shortage in skilled labor in China. Imagine if China decided to just stop selling to the USA because of Biden's actions! We would all be dead in the water... no manufacturing, no new items to sell. If a cooler gave out in a grocery store, the store would have to drop their stock of frozen foods because they could not buy another cooler. If a semi breaks down, that's one less truck hauling freight into the cities... can't fix them without parts, and they are now as electronic as any regular car. The USA would be completely in chaos within three months. Our military would suddenly be grounded. Even fuel would become scarce, as refineries use high-tech electronics in their monitoring and the pumps use electronic circuitry as well... a breakdown means off line until the parts can be found to repair them.

What you suggest may be the ultimate goal, but the horrors of that goal are actually no worse than what could happen over this one policy change.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

some very good points well made... I recall the fire and needing parts at that time.. there is a huge degree of not just self inflicted but unintended consequences in the west right now that gives me pause for thought in terms of how the west can survive.

the west needs to find a way to rejuvenate itself or it'll be a vassal of China as the old world empires became vassals of the USA, I have been hearing a lot of noise that the west has become a declinist power and the markets are pricing in its demise thus creating a self fulfilling prophecy of decline rather than innovating our way out of this..

just my pennies worth of nonsense for the day..

a reply to: vonclod

neither am I.. but they did do something similar during the cold war with the soviets.. those that did and their families where always under close security service scrutiny.. if anything I'm sure it'll be along similar lines..

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Roxstar

The first thing a Canadian needs to do in order to work in the states is to apply for a work visa. It depends on your qualifications and the job you are seeking.

Types of work visa's:
TN-1 - Under the US Canada Mexico Agreement (USMCA) qualifying Canadian business professionals with job offers or contracts with US-based companies are able to obtain TN-1 visa status to work in the United States. There are 63 qualifying professions available under TN-1 visa status. If you are Canadian and you have a job offer in the US, you may be eligible for TN-1 visa status under the USMCA. If you qualify for TN-1 visa status you can apply the same day at a port of entry and begin working in the United States right away.

H-1B - The H-1B visa is designated for those working in qualifying specialty occupations. A specialty occupation is a profession that requires at least a 4-year degree or the equivalent years of experience. In many cases when your profession doesn’t fall under the TN visa professions list, the H-1B might be your only option. There is a limit on the number of H-1B visas issued each year and they are subject to an annual lottery. If you are a Canadian and your profession requires an H-1B visa, you should plan well in advance.

L-1 - If you are a Canadian citizen and you work for a company that has offices in the United States, you may qualify for an L-1 visa. The L-1 visa was created for the transfer of employees between qualifying US companies and their related foreign entities. Those working in executive, managerial or specialized knowledge positions can qualify to work in the US under the L-1 visa. If you are a Canadian citizen being transferred to the United States offices of your Canadian employer, you might qualify for the L-1 intracompany transfer visa.

O-1 - The O-1 Visa category has been designated for Canadian citizens that can demonstrate they have achieved extraordinary ability in the sciences, arts, education, business, or athletics, or who have a demonstrated record of extraordinary achievement in the motion picture or television industry and have been recognized nationally or internationally for those achievements. If you are a Canadian citizen and can demonstrate achievement of extraordinary ability in your field, you might qualify for an O-1 visa.

E-1 / E-2 - The E- Visa category has been designated for Canadian businesses and professionals that participate in the trade of goods or services primarily with the United States. If you are a Canadian business or professional that conducts more than 50% of your international business (Excluding Canada) with the United States, you might qualify for the E-2 visa as a trader.

As for Green Cards for Canadians -
U.S. permanent residency is commonly referred to as a green card. If you are a green card holder, you are a permanent resident. The green card allows a Canadian to live, work and reside full-time in the United States. Canadians are eligible for green cards through one of the four methods:

Marriage Green Card for Canadians
Employment Green Card for Canadians
Family Green Card for Canadians
Investor Green Card for Canadians

A Green card essentially covers everything needed to live and work in the States.

As I said it all depends on the industry you're coming from and what type of job you want in the states. Broadly speaking Canadian citizens cannot just apply for US citizenship. They need to have a green card and lived in the states for a certain amount of time. It depends on the different types of Green cards listed above.

* - Additional info for you with links to the US government resources.
US Embassy and Consulates in Canada


IMPORTANT NOTE - I am NOT a lawyer nor do I work for the US Federal Government. There is info put out by immigration lawyers on both sides (US / CAN) that specifically deal with the questions you asked. I highly recommend you speak to one of those types of lawyers who would have better info than I am providing.

Thank you for the very thorough information! I will hold onto this for future reference. I appreciate that you took the time to lay it all out for me

Cheers!

a reply to: Xcathdra

Oh and btw, I have the worlds record on Dragon's Lair



Actually I have 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 5th spot lolol. Did it back in the early 80s in a video game competition!

Cheers!

originally posted by: Roxstar
a reply to: Xcathdra

Oh and btw, I have the worlds record on Dragon's Lair

Actually I have 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 5th spot lolol. Did it back in the early 80s in a video game competition!

Cheers!

LOL not many people get the reference / picture. Good ol Dirk the Daring...

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Roxstar
a reply to: Xcathdra

Oh and btw, I have the worlds record on Dragon's Lair

Actually I have 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 5th spot lolol. Did it back in the early 80s in a video game competition!

Cheers!

LOL not many people get the reference / picture. Good ol Dirk the Daring...

LOL that's totally awesome bro! I had a good chuckle when i saw it!

It will all be rescinded the day after the.
midterm election.

originally posted by: Roxstar

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Roxstar

The first thing a Canadian needs to do in order to work in the states is to apply for a work visa. It depends on your qualifications and the job you are seeking.

Types of work visa's:
TN-1 - Under the US Canada Mexico Agreement (USMCA) qualifying Canadian business professionals with job offers or contracts with US-based companies are able to obtain TN-1 visa status to work in the United States. There are 63 qualifying professions available under TN-1 visa status. If you are Canadian and you have a job offer in the US, you may be eligible for TN-1 visa status under the USMCA. If you qualify for TN-1 visa status you can apply the same day at a port of entry and begin working in the United States right away.

H-1B - The H-1B visa is designated for those working in qualifying specialty occupations. A specialty occupation is a profession that requires at least a 4-year degree or the equivalent years of experience. In many cases when your profession doesn’t fall under the TN visa professions list, the H-1B might be your only option. There is a limit on the number of H-1B visas issued each year and they are subject to an annual lottery. If you are a Canadian and your profession requires an H-1B visa, you should plan well in advance.

L-1 - If you are a Canadian citizen and you work for a company that has offices in the United States, you may qualify for an L-1 visa. The L-1 visa was created for the transfer of employees between qualifying US companies and their related foreign entities. Those working in executive, managerial or specialized knowledge positions can qualify to work in the US under the L-1 visa. If you are a Canadian citizen being transferred to the United States offices of your Canadian employer, you might qualify for the L-1 intracompany transfer visa.

O-1 - The O-1 Visa category has been designated for Canadian citizens that can demonstrate they have achieved extraordinary ability in the sciences, arts, education, business, or athletics, or who have a demonstrated record of extraordinary achievement in the motion picture or television industry and have been recognized nationally or internationally for those achievements. If you are a Canadian citizen and can demonstrate achievement of extraordinary ability in your field, you might qualify for an O-1 visa.

E-1 / E-2 - The E- Visa category has been designated for Canadian businesses and professionals that participate in the trade of goods or services primarily with the United States. If you are a Canadian business or professional that conducts more than 50% of your international business (Excluding Canada) with the United States, you might qualify for the E-2 visa as a trader.

As for Green Cards for Canadians -
U.S. permanent residency is commonly referred to as a green card. If you are a green card holder, you are a permanent resident. The green card allows a Canadian to live, work and reside full-time in the United States. Canadians are eligible for green cards through one of the four methods:

Marriage Green Card for Canadians
Employment Green Card for Canadians
Family Green Card for Canadians
Investor Green Card for Canadians

A Green card essentially covers everything needed to live and work in the States.

As I said it all depends on the industry you're coming from and what type of job you want in the states. Broadly speaking Canadian citizens cannot just apply for US citizenship. They need to have a green card and lived in the states for a certain amount of time. It depends on the different types of Green cards listed above.

* - Additional info for you with links to the US government resources.
US Embassy and Consulates in Canada


IMPORTANT NOTE - I am NOT a lawyer nor do I work for the US Federal Government. There is info put out by immigration lawyers on both sides (US / CAN) that specifically deal with the questions you asked. I highly recommend you speak to one of those types of lawyers who would have better info than I am providing.

Thank you for the very thorough information! I will hold onto this for future reference. I appreciate that you took the time to lay it all out for me

Cheers!

Whatever you do..do not screw it up, cross all your t's and dot all your i's, get all your ducks in a row.

I have a friend who bought a place in Iowa, and then moved, thought he had the right paperwork, and lawyers..well. Turns out he didn't, has to return, will never be admitted now, has to sell the house..what a giant clusterf@ck

a reply to: Annee

How much of this did we do to ourselves?

All of it. We let corporations buy our political system and they, in turn, sold out the American worker. It kept happening and continues to happen. Any time there's pushback the corporate propaganda machine kicks in to high gear to stamp out any initiative that might have a chance at changing that reality.