Why is no one talking about 'The Perimeter' aka 'Dead Hand'?

Before making this thread I did an ATS search and found only one previous tread from 2010 and only a couple of mentions in posts. So why is no one talking about the Perimeter?
As it turns out, after asking around, not many people even know about its existence since it is carefully left out of any media coverage, now and in the past. Especially here in Europe. If you are not somewhat involved with the military, or are not looking further then the obvious, the media,... then chances are you never heard about 'The Dead Hand' (Perimeter)...

In short, What is it?
It's Russia's fully automated, computerized weapons system that insures 'retaliation' in case of a nuclear strike on Russian territory. Even when there is no one in charge left alive, the system will launch an array of (at least) 1600 nukes, from silo's, ships, subs,...
The system constantly monitors seismic activity, radiation levels, air pressure, and any sign of nuclear explosions.
Latest reports say that the system was fully updated in 2017 and still active.

(Worth to mention is that some sources still say that there isn't any reliable information to this day that proofs that the system exists, or that it would actually activate without human intervention.)

the Soviet Union developed a world-ending mechanism that would launch all of its nuclear weapons without any command from an actual human. Russia currently has an estimated 1,600 deployed tactical nuclear weapons, with another 2,400 strategic nuclear weapons tied to intercontinental ballistic missiles. ... All of these weapons are tied into the Perimeter, an automatic nuclear weapons control system.

Russia's 'Dead Hand' article on military.com

"The point of the system,was to guarantee an automatic Soviet response to an American nuclear strike. Even if the US crippled the USSR with a surprise attack, the Soviets could still hit back. It wouldn't matter if the US blew up the Kremlin, took out the defense ministry, severed the communications network, and killed everyone with stars on their shoulders. Ground-based sensors would detect that a devastating blow had been struck and a counterattack would be launched".

2009 Interview with former Soviet Colonel

more links:
5 questions about the SCARIEST Russian nuclear retaliation system

wiki





One other reason for this thread is that I hear so many people yell "we should nuke Russia first!"
well, this is one of the reasons (IMO) that we don't, and never will, strike first.
I even doubt that in case of a Russian nuke (anywhere), there will be a nuclear retaliation, because that will mean the death of all of us...

Thoughts?

Well F**k that for a game of soldiers! 😳

Do any other countries have anything like this?

Minor war is going on there.
It is a game of i strike you and you strike me.

that is all that is happening in that sink hole of BS

a reply to: KindraLabelle2

I think you'll find these systems are not only common knowledge but a rather large English speaking nation has the same, been around since 60s.

a reply to: KindraLabelle2

Probably because, as anyone whose ever lived in the former Soviet will tell you, its probably 80 percent bluff, 10 percent old wires and chewing gum, and 10 percent some old guy in a bunker somewhere who has an order to press a big red button if he doesn't get an order not to after a set period of time.

Oh, and he's probably drunk.

a reply to: CthruU

maybe in the US people are more aware of it, since the cold war and the Cuba crisis.
But here in Europe? not so much...

so how do you call your system 'that is the same'?
Because, as far as I understand, the US does have a nuclear defense system, but no retaliation system that is similar, or anything comes close to the insanity of the Dead Hand.

If I'm wrong, pls share your knowledge

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: KindraLabelle2

Probably because, as anyone whose ever lived in the former Soviet will tell you, its probably 80 percent bluff, 10 percent old wires and chewing gum, and 10 percent some old guy in a bunker somewhere who has an order to press a big red button if he doesn't get an order not to after a set period of time.

Oh, and he's probably drunk.

and you know that for a fact?
Or is it wishful thinking?

but I honestly hope that you are absolutely right!

originally posted by: Albert999

Do any other countries have anything like this?

no idea,
that's what I hope to find out in this thread

There should be high skepticism on this

The biggest glaring question

How does the automated system know WHO to retaliate on?

Or does it just target America no matter who launches the nuke?

Sounds like a super dangerous patsy to me for another country to set off a nuke in Russia if they think America will be hit doesn't it? Lots of terrorist states would love that


Gonna say bs on this one

originally posted by: musicismagic
Minor war is going on there.
It is a game of i strike you and you strike me.

that is all that is happening in that sink hole of BS

hmm yeah, sure seems like a couple of grown up, bored men who got sick of their Playstation and decided on playing war games in RL. I agree, with respect to the thousands who lost their lives, that the whole war is a farce! a joke!

Saying it's "fully automated" is not really correct, this type of system is capable of automatically dispatching orders via the same channels that the orders to launch strategic nuclear weapons would have gone through if they were launched by the government itself. It still needs the people in the bases to actually do the work to launch the weapons.

Imagine a timer that counts down, so that every few hours someone has to manually reset it. If nobody is there to reset it and it runs down to zero, then it proceeds to sending out the orders by teletype or whatever other old, robust means of communications they've selected, and then it's over to the personnel at the missile silo to prep the missile and launch.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
There should be high skepticism on this

The biggest glaring question

How does the automated system know WHO to retaliate on?

Or does it just target America no matter who launches the nuke?

Sounds like a super dangerous patsy to me for another country to set off a nuke in Russia if they think America will be hit doesn't it? Lots of terrorist states would love that


Gonna say bs on this one

As far as I understand, the system was originally designed to target the US, but that was over half a century ago with primitive computer systems.
Who knows what it can do now and how it's programmed? I guess, if the system is real, it would be able to track the origin of a nuke...

It doesn't know, it's literally just a series of standing orders that get dispatched after a watchdog timer runs down. If nuclear war was imminent I imagine they'd update those orders to refer to specific targets as the situation played out.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

a reply to: oikos

thanks for clarifying that, (just curious, is that something you know for a fact?)
I can't really find a full tech and detailed description on how exactly it works in modern times, only what it was supposed to do during the cold war.
Opinions about it seem to vary a lot! and maybe I'm not looking in the right places.

No, I don't know for a fact but outside of people who directly work with it, nobody knows. Especially around the Russian system there's a lot of bluster and misinformation.

There is a similar system in the UK and I've based my description on how that works.

a reply to: KindraLabelle2

originally posted by: KindraLabelle2

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: KindraLabelle2

Probably because, as anyone whose ever lived in the former Soviet will tell you, its probably 80 percent bluff, 10 percent old wires and chewing gum, and 10 percent some old guy in a bunker somewhere who has an order to press a big red button if he doesn't get an order not to after a set period of time.

Oh, and he's probably drunk.

and you know that for a fact?
Or is it wishful thinking?

but I honestly hope that you are absolutely right!

Call it... Past experience.

Some of the stuff that you do in history class, I was there for.

a reply to: oikos

thanks,
do you happen to know the name of the UK system?

originally posted by: KindraLabelle2

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
There should be high skepticism on this

The biggest glaring question

How does the automated system know WHO to retaliate on?

Or does it just target America no matter who launches the nuke?

Sounds like a super dangerous patsy to me for another country to set off a nuke in Russia if they think America will be hit doesn't it? Lots of terrorist states would love that


Gonna say bs on this one

As far as I understand, the system was originally designed to target the US, but that was over half a century ago with primitive computer systems.
Who knows what it can do now and how it's programmed? I guess, if the system is real, it would be able to track the origin of a nuke...

Russian nukes used to be extremely primitive, you had to pre program them and they couldn't sit on the launcher for long once primed as their fuel degraded.

I doubt that they are much better today.

The Russian strategy was to have both long and intermediate range missile. The long ranged ones were programed to hit the US, the intermediate one where for Europe and China.

Their strategy was simple to kill everyone if anyone attacked them. Hit as many people with as many warheads as possible regardless of who actually shot at you, on the grounds that if you let anybody live they'd move in on your territory.

If the US nuked Russia tomorrow, Russia would take out China and the EU using everything that couldn't hit the US.

If Russia dies, everybody fries. Simple as that.

Did I mention that the Russians are crazy, at least their leaders.

Well it launches a lot more than 1600 rockets.

We could theoretically defend against that many warheads.

When that process begins, it invariably launches at least 3 times that many, mostly decoys, but I would expect in excess of 5,000 total airborne rockets.

That would be nearly impossible to defend piece by piece, by known systems.

However, we had plenty of time to setup counter measures to that system. Rest assured, there is a counter plan to all versions of these dead hand MAD tactics.

The next "nuke" isn't a nuke at all, but the anti-nuke. There was no single Oppenheimer moment that dictated the turning point of MAD, because it was never publicized. It never happened. But it's real. We have an anti-nuke system, and MAD is a thing of the past, but there's no need to test it. It exists.

The US has lasers, the US has counter strike systems in space, and we can launch 10 for every 1 they launch.

Each warhead would be met with either a direct energy induced explosion, a kinetic impactor, or a collision from it's direct counterpart.

I'm not worried, and neither should you be.

a reply to: KindraLabelle2

Europe is blissfully ignorant of such things, its not like they started two world wars or anything.

/that definitely ain't no joke...