Question: Why push your faith on others?

From what I understand, religion works really well for some people. For others, it doesn't. I honestly wish I knew people from all kinds of faiths so I could get an idea of what they believe in. For example, I was told that Buddhists have no God; yet, a Buddhist classmate of mine told me that they DO have a God, and they have more than one.

Well, my point is that religion obviously helps the lives of some people. The thing that gets me is when people push their faith on others and/or try to convert them. Regardless of who does it, I disagree with it. Just because something works for you doesn't mean you should attempt to push it onto others. Talking about how great your religion is is one thing, but pushing it on people is a different thing.

Now, I understand that this is a prerequisite in some faiths, but I still disagree with it. I feel that discussing religious is great; I'm all for it. But, I don't think that we should attempt to persuade others to join our faith.

The way I see it, people haven't learned how to properly agree to disagree, and so this has been used as a means of manipulation when it comes to religion.



The main problems with organized religion are:


A. The mention of free will, but no regard with respect to opposing belief systems.

B. The impulsive nature of humanity to insist they can speak and comprehend the truth without hegelian dialect and quantum philosophy.

C. Blind faith, dogma, and the inability to question authority.



Since most organized religions, mainly of the monotheistic variety, tend to have it hard wired to carry out these 3 detremental moral approaches, you can sure as hell bet that jihads and ww3 will carry on until this planet is just a big Disneyland meat factory.



Can't beat the feeling.

Some denominations (Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses) get 'points' when they witness to someone, or covert them. Not all do. Most tho teach that you should be ready to talk about your faith when someone asks, and be ready to answer thier questions, is that pushing your faith?

THo I have to ask, what is "Pushing" your faith? If I explained how I belived salvation is achive am I pushing my faith? Or would you rather everyone who doesn't belive the same way as you to be quiet and not do anyhting that apprears as being faithful?

Originally posted by Jehosephat
Some denominations (Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses) get 'points' when they witness to someone, or covert them. Not all do. Most tho teach that you should be ready to talk about your faith when someone asks, and be ready to answer thier questions, is that pushing your faith?

THo I have to ask, what is "Pushing" your faith? If I explained how I belived salvation is achive am I pushing my faith? Or would you rather everyone who doesn't belive the same way as you to be quiet and not do anyhting that apprears as being faithful?

I think it's pretty obvious, pushing your faith implies that the party in question is peddling religious doctrines (despite how dogmatic they may appear to their hopeful client) when it isn't requested, or moreover when it is objected. As to not respect the free will of another individual.

Originally posted by Jehosephat
Some denominations (Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses) get 'points' when they witness to someone, or covert them. Not all do. Most tho teach that you should be ready to talk about your faith when someone asks, and be ready to answer thier questions, is that pushing your faith?

THo I have to ask, what is "Pushing" your faith? If I explained how I belived salvation is achive am I pushing my faith? Or would you rather everyone who doesn't belive the same way as you to be quiet and not do anyhting that apprears as being faithful?

Sigh, do people even read your posts anymore here? I made it a point to DISTINGUISH talking about your faith with others and pushing it on them. Do you just read what you want to Jehosephat?

If you would have read all that I posted, you wouldn't have made that comment. Which explains why I don't have anything more to say in response, which is good because I would look like a dodger otherwise...

Marketing my man. It's all marketing. And it is a conspiracy.

Not all religions do it. It's mostly a Christian/Islam (and to some extent Atheist) thing. This witnessing by the word or the sword.




PS: Buddha was an agnostic. Some Hindu Buddhists are polytheistic diety worshippers though.

I think the ultimate reason that people push their religion on others is because there is always the ultimate "what if I'm wrong". If you have people joining up with you, you feel more secure that you have chosen the correct faith. (assuming there IS a correct faith)

You make a good point, Light Being.

Many people mention free will, but in actuality we don't have free will. In a philosophy class I took, we talked about a point of view holding that, were we to have true free will, we could float in the air and touch the ceiling with a mere thought. This suggests that we have limited free will, whether by God or by the physical world, which begs the question on whether we have free will at all. I mean, if you are partially free, like in jail, are you truly free?

Also, I would like to hear more of what you have to say about quantum philosophy. I hate physics, so explain the basics veeerrry sloooowly...

Some believe that they have the truth and just want to share their enightenment to benefit others

And some are blind sheep, recruiting the next bottom to the pyrimid. The ones on top will always hold the power, so a rule of the religion becomes one having to recruit. The supiority of the higher ups will keep their "royalty status" to their own lines, and most of the flock will never aquire the real truth: That they are just a population with rules and regulations to the faith that the great ones need not follow.--They fill in the gaps to a great network that propagates the succes of the guys on top, and ONLY the guys on top.



[edit on 4-4-2005 by xxKrisxx]

truthseeka, I aksed you to clarify something that you have made ratehr vauge.

can you please give some examples of what is and is not "pushing" your faith

Originally posted by truthseeka
Talking about how great your religion is is one thing, but pushing it on people is a different thing.

There is where I established the difference. Since you know how to do the former, I'll only post examples of the latter (not because I'm lazy though).

Telling people the only way they can reach heaven is through jesus, going door to door selling your religion to others, those are the more benign examples. Telling people they will burn in hell if they don't believe it your way, perpetrating Inquisitions to keep your faith in power, or taking the sword to infidels are the more in your face examples.

RANT, you have a good point with the marketing thing. Makes sense to me.

Velouria3, you also have a good point with the security blanket.

Kris, you make a great point. I have a sneaking suspicion that the elites of any religious group don't exactly follow the rules. There's also evidence of this...some I can see and some I have only heard about.

Freewill. The world is wicked! wicked! wicked!

Less than one-third of the world’s population or 2.1 billion people are Christians and bound for heaven, the remaining two-thirds are bound for hellfire and damnation, because they did not listen to the divine inheritance side of freewill, instead opting to allow the satanic side control. Christians will be celebrating in Heaven come judgement day for having won as the minority, and rightfully so, for there is no sweeter victory than for the minority to beat the enemy.

Good freewill was inherited from Adam after made by God, and since Satan copulated with Eve, evil freewill was also passed on, that accounts for a 50-50 split, but since Eve corrupted Adam, his divine freewill genes were split in half, leaving 50% from Eve directly and 25% from Eve and Adam; 67%, what a match! According to those statistics then, evil freewill is more powerful than good freewill, and God made it so for a reason; to make man dig deep into their minds and hearts to overcome the more powerful antagonist. What good is a struggle if it is an even match? None whatsoever!

The lesson is that we must beat the dominant genes within us even if we did not ask for them, because we must remember; the meek shall inherit the earth, and lacking the ability by almost 2-1 to overcome the enemy, does not mean meek, it means weak.

We are not weak people! We must overcome this evil!




[edit on 4/4/05 by SomewhereinBetween]

He have to save the world from the heathens!!!

truthseeka,

Im glad to see someone else sees this side...I am glad this thread was made. There is no reason that solicitation be a mandatory aspect of religion. One who truly feel his faith will spread it with the zealous passion of that faith, not pressure from his "superiors".

A trend of "new immigrants" being recruited by religious parties for their vulnerability is becoming all too apparent to me. They are "sponsored" and then enslaved by these societies. They become a pawn, literally trapped, as work sponsored party, with a contract. Sure he could leave, but he has a chance to become a legal citizen this way, and automatically becomes part of a society.

Illigals and sponsored citizens are recruited thru religious groups. It is an easy way to fill the floor of the pyrimid and I am trying to legitimately bring light to this growing problem. I have been researching this on my own. The newcomers are eager to become part of a group, especially one that promises to show them who god really is and how they can get to heaven or find eternal life. Religion should breed hope, not fear.

I think pushing faith on to people in modern times now just won't work to convert people. My reasons for this are because people nowadays question evertything and they are usually very cautious about what they do. Back about fifty years ago when people used fear to convert people, I don't think it will work now. I am a catholic and I personally think that using fear to keep me loyal to the religion worked. Now I think more logically (just my own view on things.) and I don't buy it anymore so I doubt people will let a religion be forced onto them.
Peace
Marius

yeah i agree, i'm always up for a theological/spiritual discussion... what i hate si when the person i'm discussing religion with refuses to listen to any points other than those preached by their religion, and then proceed to bombard you with their doctrine and wont let up if you disagree...

this i put down to fear and insecurity.... fear that if they listen or read up on other doctrines they may lose their faith and realise that everything they ever believed was wrong, and insecurity in the sense that they have to keep trying to make everyone see their way to assure themselves it is indeed the correct way...

humans are funny creatures... always masking the real reason we do things and presenting false pretenses...

Originally posted by truthseeka
Now, I understand that this is a prerequisite in some faiths, but I still disagree with it. I feel that discussing religious is great; I'm all for it. But, I don't think that we should attempt to persuade others to join our faith.

People of other faiths can give the fundamentals of their faith and who their God is(that should always be done, very definitvely.) No one can make you choose their belief. Especially on the internet I really don't see how anyone can feel "forced" by what others are saying. You have the right to make up your own mind and you should do that. Gather all the evidence and testimony you can and make the choice. But just like you have a right to choose, they have a right to tell.

I hesitate to add this but I think it's important. Just because someone who you are conversing with is very bold and very definitely believes their's is the correct truth should be added to all the info you gather. If you are conversing with someone who uses terminology that comes across as they are not sure but this "feels right", this should also be stored away and you should remember that they weren't sure. If you are feeling like stuff is being "forced or persuaded " upon you, never ever count out the possiblity that this feeling could be God tugging or nudging you in a certain direction.
No matter who you are you can pray and simply ask the real God to reveal himself to you, that is a prayer anyone from anywhere can pray and it will be answered by Him.

Let's face it, where you will spend eternity is the most important decision everyone has to make, so gather all the info you can before you make your decision.

Originally posted by truthseeka

Originally posted by truthseeka
Talking about how great your religion is is one thing, but pushing it on people is a different thing.

There is where I established the difference. Since you know how to do the former, I'll only post examples of the latter (not because I'm lazy though

).

Telling people the only way they can reach heaven is through jesus, going door to door selling your religion to others, those are the more benign examples. Telling people they will burn in hell if they don't believe it your way, perpetrating Inquisitions to keep your faith in power, or taking the sword to infidels are the more in your face examples.

According to most christian religions the only way to heven is through Jesus. So then you are implying that religious people should never talk to you at all because they might be just talking what they belive to be true?

As far as door-to-door, that is called canvessing. if you don't like it you can close the door, or tell them to go away, get the water hose and call the cops.

It is called free speach. And the momment you impose that certin types of speech are not allowed you will allow for much worse things to happen.

Now as far as telling people they are going to hell, inquisitions, and killing non-belivers, that is only done by extremists and I wouldn't call those kinds of people Good christians, or even good examples of religion to base a rather wide ranging statement just so your ears do not get offended by talk you don't like.

I was an unchurched agnostic person for 21 years before I found someone that was willing to take the time and discuss religion with me. But it was allways on my terms. That is really all you need to do is jsut say "I don't belive in that" or "That means nothing to me" and leave it at that. There is no reason to put up barriers abd shields and signs just so you might not accidently get converted.

Relgion has a lot of benifts and the Government knows it performs a benifit to society. yes a few wackos get loose once and a while and made a bad name of religion but honestly overall most religious people are very tame, and even approachable.

I have talked to some that have done mission work. Religion is used as a way to form a community and educate. I have read many stories where a persons main drive to become litterate is so that they can read the bible.

Is that wrong?

It is the will of God, my son!I love God and his will shall be done! His will is to convert you to his magical kingdom which I am going to and want you to go with me! I love God! My preacher told me his will, and Pat Robertson on CBN, and the children he led to food in the country of Niger! God's food is your soul, and I want him to nibble on my ear whilst whispering sweet nothings, and then while I nibble on your ear, and then God nibbles back on my ear ............................AHH.........AHH..........I love God.

Let's all nibble on each others ears and spoon in Heaven.......or on Earth? Do you want to now?



[edit on 4-4-2005 by National Security Agency]

Look, I never said that people should not be allowed to attempt to convert people. That DOESN'T mean that I think their speech should be censored, no way. Everything isn't so cut and dry. I simply disagree.

And as for being scared of being converted,!! I was once a Christian, but I have since left the faith. I am not scared of being re-converted. In fact, you are more than welcome to try to convert me back. Sure, that sounds like I'm going against my own thread, but go ahead. I still disagree with the pushing of religion on others.

I stand firm in my new belief, that the Supreme Being exists and you don't need organized religion to reach it, so go ahead, try to convert me. Disregarding me, though, I still don't feel that people should try to convert others. Again, this is still somewhat a free country, so they can do what they like. And, since is it free, I am free to disagree with what they do.