Top Scientists Publish Paradigm-Shifting Study About COVID-19 Vaccines

originally posted by: zosimov

originally posted by: AaarghZombies

I'm anti mandate, and I've been pretty clear about agreeing that the primary reasons to vax under 30s is to stop transmission to older people.

This theory--that is okay to sacrifice our kids and youth to prevent grandma from going to the hospital is one of the most horrendous. And the vaxx doesn't even stop the spread so here we are sacrificing those young people for no reason.

It's a sign of a morally reprehensible society which would accept a kid sacrificing for the adults.

There is another reason his argument doesnt work. He is suggesting that all old people will die from it. My dad was born the same year as the queen. He will be 96 soon. He fought in World War 2 as a gun carrying medic and studied medicine at Stanford when he got out. He has never gotten ill from covid and Im sure he has been around people who were sick.

He reacted in disbelief and found it crazy when they bypassed safety standards and began injecting with mRNA shots. He knew right away that something was very wrong. He formed his opinion from facts, training and experience. He has run multiple laboratories at colleges, hospitals, and in the private sector. He is a Chemist, Microbiologist, and Bacteriologist.

a reply to: v1rtu0s0

Most medicine is borderline evil and the bottom line matters more than patients. I saw this first hand with my special access in the past. It was bad so I dated up the ladder. I received worse 2nd hand information from accountant, clerk and CIO. Then I saw the real hard truth and documentation and got very nervouse. I sat on what I had for a long time. What I found more than a decade ago scared me so much I resigned and prayed for humanity

originally posted by: thethinkingman
a reply to: v1rtu0s0

Probably best to ignore the dumb asses. They need peoples attention.

Well someone needs to tell V1rtu0s0 how wrong he is in most of these threads so people shouldn't really ignore him!?!?!

I...am...a...robot....I...am...a...robot. crackpot....crackpot....

Because when V1rtu0s0 is proven wrong he likes to claim we're all bots out to get him!!!

a reply to: v1rtu0s0

Well as usual your first source is is a Right-wing propaganda machine but atleast it is against the CCP...

Medium

The Epoch Times was started by John Tang in the year 2000 as a Chinese language newspaper. John Tang is a graduate of Georgia Tech who publicly supports the Fulan Gong, a Chinese religious order that opposes communism and as such is banned from practicing in China. The newspaper started as an anti-propaganda of the Chinese state, but quickly transitioned to other languages and although it actively promotes anti-communism (even gathering signatures for a petition to “stop the Chinese Communist Party on its homepage), much of its content is focused on hard right spinning of the news

Media Bias Fact Check

A questionable source exhibits one or more of the following: extreme bias, consistent promotion of propaganda/conspiracies, poor or no sourcing to credible information, a complete lack of transparency, and/or is fake news.

And your 2 other sources are the same thing, one just a link to the PDF of the other link, but it makes you doom porn look better if you have lots of links pointing to the "Truth"?

And AaarghZombies has already pointed out the points in it.

According to this report, if 30,000 students are vaxxed on a hypothetical campus 2-4 young men will experience mild-moderate heart palpitations, and between 1.3K and 3.3K will need to take aspirin to alleviate vax related aches and pains.

It's main argument is that this isn't really worth it because people in this age range aren't likely to be seriously sick with covid.

I'm pretty sure that we all knew this already, it's common knowledge that young people don't really benefit from covid shots, and that mandates for teens just creates bad PR that hampers other covid campaigns such as social distancing because it get's people's backs up.

You won't catch me saying that there should be vax mandates in college.

a reply to: AaarghZombies

How much are you paid to sit on this board constantly refreshing to defend big pharma and corrupt governments?

I hope it’s worth your soul.

Never a balanced retort, irrespective of the source, it’s always straight to the defensive.

Do you really think anyone still takes you seriously?

a reply to: Kurokage

The source is a peer reviewed scientific study. Did you bother to read the findings or just jump to zombies' conclusion?

If you support this, you are willing to permanently disable a random number of young people in order to feel more safe.

originally posted by: zosimov
a reply to: Kurokage

The source is a peer reviewed scientific study. Did you bother to read the findings or just jump to zombies' conclusion?

If you support this, you are willing to permanently disable a random number of young people in order to feel more safe.

I read it, did you? I also pointed out AaarghZombies points which I mainly agree with.

I love the "oh, won't someone think of the children" point you're attempting to make but fail!!

a reply to: Kurokage

I read it and now I'm reading the sources it used as well.

In requesting the EUA for boosting adolescent males, the
Pfizer’s risk-benefit analysis estimated 23-69 cases of myocarditis per one million booster doses administered and 29-69 hospitalizations averted, yet this estimate of 23-69 cases of myocarditis per million third doses administered is now known to be an order of magnitude below the 200.3 per million reported by the US CDC among adolescents aged 16–17 years.

Pfizer's own risk-benefit was a wash, but it was also proven to have underestimated the risks, as evidenced above.

Do you even have kids? I've found those pushing the hardest to vaxx kids have no stake in the game.

a reply to: zosimov

Thats still only about 0.02%.
Any medication taken, from pain killers to blood thinners suffer from some very serious side affects but is limited to a very small number. It has been that way since the introduction of medication.
When covid stuck, one the first countries to be hit hard was Italy which had a 14% mortality rate in civid cases.

Our World In Data

a reply to: Kurokage

There are 12,528,687 children aged 15-17 in the US. Mandate this useless vaxx in kids and that leaves about 1000 or more young healthy boys in that age range with life long heart problems. (by the way, forgot to mention the study's conclusion that the benefits were overestimated by ignoring comorbidities and using a broader age group and that the number of myocarditis cases might be higher. Here's all Pfizer had to go on in their trials:

The Pfizer trial, for example, included only 78 individuals 16–17 years of age randomised to receive booster or placebo. Nevertheless one male in this age group was diagnosed with myocarditis

The ACC’s widely promoted graphic is tied to data presented by the CDC74 422 and relies on four key assumptions which necessarily bias the findings in favour of vaccination: 1) vaccine effectiveness of 95% over 120 days to prevent Covid-19 cases and hospitalizations; 2) myocarditis rates were derived from passive surveillance in VAERS instead of active surveillance available to the CDC (VSD)
resulting in harms being underestimated by a factor of 1051,52 426 ; 3) harms and benefits were averaged across ages 12–29 when the risk may be highest among those aged 16–1951,52 427 ; and 4)hospitalisation rates were tied to May 2021 data, more than a year prior to the ACC’s review and pre-Omicron. Nevertheless, for adolescent males ages 12–17, the CDC estimated 56-69
myocarditis cases would be expected while 71 ICU admissions could be averted.

They also didn't factor in the hospitalisations and ICU visits from myocarditis, and possibly for an individuals entire lifetime, which could have been completely avoided.

a reply to: zosimov

It's you not reading peoples posts here, as I stated and reposted about AarghZombies post....

I'm pretty sure that we all knew this already, it's common knowledge that young people don't really benefit from covid shots, and that mandates for teens just creates bad PR that hampers other covid campaigns such as social distancing because it get's people's backs up.

You won't catch me saying that there should be vax mandates in college.

But your all so quick to act like sheeple, all I've done is point out the facts about your ridiculous "disabling children" comment. Do you even read the pamphlets that tell you about the side effects most average medication has??
America medicate their children more than most countries combined.

Edited to add...
How many of those children already had heart problems before and it wasn't known until after or during the trial?

a reply to: Kurokage

It's not ridiculous if you understand the definition of disabled and know what myocarditis is.

From the Myocarditis Foundation website:

After treatment, many patients live long, full lives free from the effects of myocarditis. For others, however, ongoing cardiovascular medication or even a heart transplant may be needed. Overall, myocarditis which can cause dilated cardiomyopathy, are thought to account for up to 45 percent of heart transplants in the U.S. today.

www.myocarditisfoundation.org...

Definition of disabled:

Definition of disabled
1a: impaired or limited by a physical, mental, cognitive, or developmental condition

Here is some information about applying for disability if one has myocarditis:

Disability Benefits for Viral Myocarditis
Some people with viral myocarditis will need benefits while they’re recovering. One of the complications that qualify people for SSDI benefits is dilated cardiomyopathy, and there are other chronic cardiac conditions that will also help a person qualify.

For people who have one of these heart conditions due to viral myocarditis, there are a few criteria that they must also meet. For instance, they must have medical records of their condition, and within those medical records, there must also be evidence that several forms of treatment have been used to attempt to treat the condition. The heart condition must also be severe and ongoing. In the medical records that are submitted for SSDI benefits, there should be records of any hospital stays, lab testing, and physical exams. There should also be records of the diastolic and systolic failure as well as record of fluid retention in the heart.

In addition to giving evidence of the severity of the heart condition and the treatments that have been used to address the medical problem, people applying for the SSDI benefits for viral myocarditis must also have records of having failed the exercise tolerance test. This test is designed to assess the amount and strenuousness of the work that you’re able to safely do on a regular basis.

One of the final ways that a person can qualify for disability benefits is if they give medical records of having had at least three heart failures that required hospitalization within a 12-month period of time.

mydisabilityattorney.com...

originally posted by: v1rtu0s0
Let's see what kind of mental gymnastics we can employ to deny this paper.

Whether they convince anyone or not they have an excellent success rate at running interference. If, hypothetically they were shills or bots, then convincing vax doubters that their wrong would be a secondary goal. Primary would be to turn every thread into a back and fourth insult game that prevents any deeper discussion.

Every single covid thread, before the first page is done is the same heads butting. Meanwhile taking the idea of the thread any further into possible glances down the road if the thesis is correct never happens.

ATS is at it's best when speculating. We are not journalists and have no responsibility to proof, evidence, 100% reliable source (if such a thing even exists anymore. The strength of ATS is the speculative analytical powers of its many magnificent minds.

Alas, no more! Every covid thread is strangled at birth by the endless, repetitive protestations of the self righteous - that their truth is is more important than speculation.

I can only wonder to what destination an ATS Covid thread might travel if those vociferous few were quiet for just one of them.

My advice of course would be ignore, ignore, ignore the absolutists - those screaming that there is an absolute answer in their posts. There is not - they don't really know any more than you, or I. Whether they scream 'debunked' or 'conspiracy', the absolute assertion is for the easily led - the sheeple, as we've long coined it. Keep an open mind, Deny Arrogance!

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: zosimov

Thats still only about 0.02%.
Any medication taken, from pain killers to blood thinners suffer from some very serious side affects but is limited to a very small number. It has been that way since the introduction of medication.
When covid stuck, one the first countries to be hit hard was Italy which had a 14% mortality rate in civid cases.

Our World In Data

That’s why I never take drugs unless I need them and the benefits taking them outweigh their risks.

Additionally, those drugs go through long term testing and still have those issues.

Why take a drug that hasn’t gone through complete testing that has worse side effects than the virus in a certain age group?

Makes no sense.

a reply to: v1rtu0s0

" Covid Vaccine Destroys Natural Immunity, NEJM Study Shows "


Many of US Suspected as much in the Beginning of the FAKE Plandemic , Now it is CONFIRMED .


" This is very disturbing because it suggests not only that the vaccines give negative ‘protection’ after a few months but also that they destroy the protection that should have been provided by natural immunity. The unvaccinated keep their protection from previous infection but the vaccinated end up with negative efficacy even if they’ve been previously infected. This means the vaccines appear to demolish a person’s natural immunity and leave him or her more vulnerable to infection than he or she was before."


www.infowars.com...

a reply to: zosimov

It's not ridiculous if you understand the definition of disabled and know what myocarditis is.

I do understand, thats why I poked holes in this doom porn thread.

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: v1rtu0s0

" Covid Vaccine Destroys Natural Immunity, NEJM Study Shows "


Many of US Suspected as much in the Beginning of the FAKE Plandemic , Now it is CONFIRMED .


" This is very disturbing because it suggests not only that the vaccines give negative ‘protection’ after a few months but also that they destroy the protection that should have been provided by natural immunity. The unvaccinated keep their protection from previous infection but the vaccinated end up with negative efficacy even if they’ve been previously infected. This means the vaccines appear to demolish a person’s natural immunity and leave him or her more vulnerable to infection than he or she was before."


www.infowars.com...

Exactly, this is the effect from VAIDs, reducing immunity over time.

a reply to: McGinty

ATS is at it's best when speculating. We are not journalists and have no responsibility to proof, evidence, 100% reliable source (if such a thing even exists anymore. The strength of ATS is the speculative analytical powers of its many magnificent minds.

a reply to: McGinty

I agree with most of your comments but......
When you're posting threads you claim are fact then ATS has always asked for evidence to back up the claims for as long as I've been a member here, thats why the gray area was added for speculating or unproven content.

Deny Ignorance

a reply to: Kurokage

You're quite right! That is indeed what the grey area is for. But i feel the rest of ATS (only in respect of Covid threads, but that is with good reason a great many) has become the black and white area.

Grey is great for high speculation, but when it relates to current affairs i feel we've lost our way a little, with every thread getting stuck in a groundhog day of "You're wrong, no you're wrong..."

I've got no notion of rules to be laid down. I'd just ask those that make their case - sometime strongly, sometimes relying on dubious sources. On both sides; the BBC is always focused upon a single angle, desperately shaping narratives to fit an agenda, yet their 'fact check' is too often cited as credible. And on the other side there's Bitshute's scatter gun of uploaded accusations that can rarely be a credible source.

National statistics, ONS, WHO the list goes on. It's paradoxical to use these as sources to dispute establishment conspiracies since they are the establishment.

Deny ignorance is still the best motto to post by, but i seems to have been replaced more or less with 'prove it, or shut up!' Let's face it, none of us can in truth prove anything here - it's all second hand. And the 'prove it or shut' tone that keeps attacking every single covid thread is do just that to the debate - shutting it down very, very successfully - too successfully, because i for one miss the 'what if' debate and rabbit holes that suspension of disbelief leads to. When you don't know all the facts you need a little faith and patience to make leaps.

Apologies, i'm a right old bloody rant here. I'll shut up now

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: AaarghZombies

How much are you paid to sit on this board constantly refreshing to defend big pharma and corrupt governments?

I hope it’s worth your soul.

Never a balanced retort, irrespective of the source, it’s always straight to the defensive.

Do you really think anyone still takes you seriously?

I honestly thought that you were better than that.

I was wrong.