The St. Malachy prophecy (fake?)

Read about it youself to brush up on what the Prophacy is.
www.catholic-pages.com...

The Catholic Encyclopedia states that St Malachy visited Rome in 1139. While there, he allegedly received a vision of the future in which the lineage of the popes was revealed to him. He wrote a description of his visions down and gave it to the then-Pope, Innocent II. The description of his visions was lost soon after and not found until 1590, by one Dom Arnold de Wyon -- a Benedictine monk. As there are no mentions of Malachy's Prophecies prior to 1590 in any official or unofficial Church record, and as none of Malachy's contemporaries (including Bernard of Clairvaux, who wrote Malachy's biography and was his close friend) reference the document, and as the Benedictines were at the time of Arnold de Wyon's "discovery" were fighting for their survival (many of their monasteries had been sacked and their members killed during the wars of the Protestant Reformation) and a document that showed the Benedictines in a good light would have been a godsend to the embattled order, and as the manuscript has itself disappeared and only notes about its contents survive, most contemporary, responsible, reputable scholars believe the thing to be a fake from beginning to end.

It is amazing how many people will search around for thier birthplace, name, family, history before papacy, thier death, worldly events, ancestory etc. to force a square peg into a round hole by any means neccesary to keep the illusion of the Malachy prophacy true.

there's a story that an American cardinal, either Spellman or Cushing, was so eager to become Pope that when Piux XII was near death and the next Pope, according to Malachy, was to be "pastor et nauta" -- "shepherd and sailor", he hired an Italian sailor to take him on a cruise down the Tiber River with a flock of sheep on board. It didn't take; the next Pope was Angelo Roncalli, who took the name John XXIII. He had served for a time in Venice, a city of many waterways where everyone's a sailor per force; and after his election, he promised to be a "good shepherd" to his flock. Then again, he wasn't originally from Venice (he was born at Sotto il Monte, Bergamo), and "good shepherd" is a common enough phrase among Christians.

Not to metion that Malachy's prophecies get pretty vague after 1590 or so -- just more proof of them possibly being forgeries. As anyone knows with so called Telephone Pysics how vauge they can be and allow the subject to fill in the blanks.

Here are the prophecies for the most recent popes, and some of the "explinations":

Paul VI. The words of the 108th prophecy are "Flos Florum" (Flower of Flowers). The 108th pope after Innocent II was Paul VI (1963-78). he was a native of Florence and on the arms of Florence figured a fleur-de-lis (iris blossoms); he had three bees emblazoned on his escutcheon, and the bees gather honey from the lilies and roses.

John Paul I. The 109th is "De Medietate Lunae" (Of the Half Moon). The corresponding pope was John Paul I (1978-78), who was born in the diocese of Belluno (beautiful moon) and was baptized Albino Luciani (white light). He became pope on August 26, 1978, when the moon appeared exactly half full. It was in its waning phase. He died the following month, soon after an eclipse of the moon. (Eclipes was on Oct 2nd, and was mainly visble to only Russia and China)

John Paul II. The 110th is "De Labore Solis" (Of the Solar Eclipse, or From the Toil of the Sun). The corresponding pope was John Paul II (1978-2005). John Paul II was born on May 18, 1920 during an eclipse of the sun. Like the sun, he came out of the East (Poland). Like the sun, he visited countries all around the globe.

Please note, the Eclipses was not a full solar Eclipse (Maximum Obscuration=39.468%) and was only visible in australia
eclipse.astroinfo.org...

Today the final two prophecies are yet to be fulfilled:

The 111th prophecy is "Gloria Olivae" (The Glory of the Olive). The meaning of the olive is unclear. The Order of Saint Benedict – not St. Malachy – has claimed that this pope will come from its ranks and Saint Benedict himself prophesied that before the end of the world his Order, known also as the Olivetans, will triumphantly lead the Catholic Church in its final fight against evil.

The 112th prophecy says, "In the final persecution of the Holy Roman Church there will reign Petrus Romanus (Peter the Roman), who will feed his flock amid many tribulations; after which the seven-hilled city will be destroyed and the dreadful Judge will judge the people.

Even if the last one were true, and the prophecies reliable, the "end" is subject to interpretation. Does Malachy reference the end of the world, end of his vision, end of Rome or simply the end of the papacy? For all we know could be that "judge" is someone who removes the Vatican Soveringty.

Now, how many instances of "The glory of the olive" can we come up with. Olive oil, olive brach (peace), Mount of Olvies, Martini Olive, Olive on Pizza's, Olive skinned, etc... Is this a prophacy that will come true if the Nigerian is elected pope? Or are people making the prophecy self fulfilling?

In the end, Prophesies only are usually realised after the fact. Not going to change mylife any, tho I wonder how much the Prophesies is going to wiegh on the minds of the members of the conclave who will choose the next pope


[edit on 4/4/2005 by Jehosephat]

well I think the next Pope will be an Italian and maybe that's where the "olive" comes in, Italy is one of the best known places for olives and olive oil in the Mediterranean. But if not Italy, it could be someone from the Mediterranean in general.

I'm not too educated on this pope stuff, but do they have to take either of those names? could they not make up their own??

the whole mediterranian is known for its olive oil

Pope is the title, and often they take a new name after being selected, often it is a name of a pervious pope

JP2's mass was also on a Sunday, during a feast day that he initiated. The world wept. "Tears of the Sun".

agent orange.. please tell me what "Tears of the sun" have to do with the subject?

Originally posted by worldwatcher
well I think the next Pope will be an Italian and maybe that's where the "olive" comes in, Italy is one of the best known places for olives and olive oil in the Mediterranean.

It is actually Tunisia. They have the biggest olive grove in the world.

Originally posted by Jehosephat
agent orange.. please tell me what "Tears of the sun" have to do with the subject?

Jumpin' Jehosephat! No need to take that tone. Tears of the Sun is one of the translations of the Malachi epigram for JP2 that I've read. Others have "toil".

[edit on 4-4-2005 by Agent Orange]

Actually they say the best candidate so far is an African-American. May the holiest one get the job.

Originally posted by Agent Orange

Originally posted by Jehosephat
agent orange.. please tell me what "Tears of the sun" have to do with the subject?

Jumpin' Jehosephat! No need to take that tone. Tears of the Sun is one of the translations of the Malachi epigram for JP2 that I've read. Others have "toil"

What tone? it was just a question. Me thinks someone is a bit defensive and is implying stuff that is not there

Fleo is the Latin word for tear (to weep, cry, shed tears, sob) and lacrimo ( to weep, shed tears / exude, drip. ) so you can understand my confusion when you used "tears of the sun" which is nothing close to the english translation of De Labore Solis . Even english readers can roughly translate it litterally "Of labor Sun". I just would like to know how you came up with, or the site that came up with "tears of the sun" and how you can justify that poor translation.

Might want to look up a Latin-english dictionary and do the translation yourself of "De Labore Solis" in fact it is a good expercise to do so with all the sayings Malachy supposadly used to identify the furutre Popes, and how vauge they get after 1590 when the prophacy was supposadly discovered

Since as of this time all "The world is going to end" prophecies have been Hoaxes. Im gonna have to vote Hoax based upon past historical evidence that prophecies dealing with then end of the world....allmost allways end up being faked. My evidence? Were Still Here.

I think it's a high probability that it's a fake. Perhaps the next Pope will answer the question in his next Q&A session online. I'm sure the mods here can pull some strings.

Well if it IS fake. Then why are people still refering to it, and not trying to explain how it could not be a fake?

interesting subject , i gotta run now though but i ll read that later for sure..

*adding olive oil to the grocery list*

How can you beleive in it at all? How many times has the world been predicted to end? And how many times has it actually happend? Ya thats the same number i got lol. Im just going on statistics here. Is my resoning flawed?

No, but your spelling is.

I am starting to believe in those prophecies, I am a Catholic, and I do believe in the "judgement day".

well...

if God gave st. malachy the prophecies, then why do they CONTRADICT the BIBLE???

some people think that the visions st. malachy saw was from satan...

anyway, i think that these prophecies are "true" and that they will happin...

worldwatcher...

a pope can choose ANY name he wants...

he could also choose a name of a pope from the past that affected him personally...

it should be noted that the prophecies DO NOT tell the EXACT name of the popes or what years they will reign...

just the order...

the last pope that was prophecized (peter the roman) COULD have been added by the CHURCH (and not originaly in the prophecies) in order to "calm people down"...

in either case, the world WILL end SOON...

thank you for answering my question Theyseeall

Originally posted by worldwatcher
thank you for answering my question Theyseeall

anytime...

if you have any other questions, just ask...

they see all is a bright ray of sunshine! The end is coming very soon!

Does the Roman Catholic Church have an official position on these prophecies? (sorry if it was said and I missed it)