anyone worried about solar storm hitting earth?

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

Heya MSB.

Am not really a knowledgeable person myself. My words should not be taken as "right".
Am just another big dummy on the internet, pretending to know more about stuff than they really do.
Please check everything with multiple sources, as am well aware that you already do.

Most of my ideas in this field were told/shown to me by a good buddy, who is an electrical engineer
for the main provider round here.

Am not sure if there are any solid methods to protect our local wires.
Maybe having the counter on a post outside of the home, with shielded underground wires to the home might help, because of the grounds on the post, counter and wires ?
Because we have no control over the wires until the counter.

Good-quality surge-protectors on our electronics, including your ham receiver/transmitter/amplifier and computers.

But the idea of the website offered in my first post : is that we potentially have some advance warning nowadays, if we have time to check those kinds of sites regularly.
Just a minute a day, could help.

Then just shut-off the main switch, before the distribution panel.
Take the fuse out even, if you have one, maybe ?
Also have a switch put-in on the post, after the counter.

Just have a way to isolate your panel, from the grid.
Unplug sensitive stuff.
Buy or assemble some faraday cages, and/or blackout containers for some pieces of electronics.

There are some yoobytooby vids, on how to build cheap blackout envelopes, for cellphones and other things.
( Also good if you need to bring a smart-phone on the road with you,
but don't want to constantly broadcast you location ... )
Old microwaves are a good place to put electronics in to protect them.

Shielded/grounded cables in the house, as much as possible, for electrical stuff.
Look into how homes are built and designed for people whom are overly sensitive to electro-magnetic fields, for some ideas.

The idea is that if you know it is coming : it can maybe be a little bit mitigated.
So even if your local line is fried : once it's repaired : you will be ready to get your stuff running.

Oh ! And make yourself a nice stylish tin-foil hat, if you haven't already ... LoL !!

originally posted by: JAGStorm

originally posted by: HODOSKE
i have been reading a lot lately about solar storms. Last big one was in 1859. They say we are way over due and they usually happen every 150 years . Experts say it can wipe out our power grid and we are not prepared at all.

Remember people lived a lot longer without electricity than they did with.
The problem is we are so dependent on it today especially in regards to healthcare.

We can absolutely survive without electricity. It would take getting acclimated to the weather again.
Waking with the sun and sleeping when it goes down.We'd have to eat seaonally. We would have to clean with natural products. There is a reason why most people settled near water.

We would all probably be a lot healthier.

No, we would not be healthier. Take a look at history. We only lived to be 35-40 years old. many infants and mothers died during birth. Diseases ravaged populations. Many people now live long lives who would have died as children before technology. The world was a tough place to survive. Luckily we evolved brains that made it possible for us to live as we do now.

I spent most of a year living off the land when I was younger and while I'm glad I did it and learned how to do it successfully, it was so hard most people would die within the first few months. Eliminate technology and half the world's population would be dead in the first year I'm sure, and perhaps many more than that.

I know people like to glamorize the idea of being one with nature, but the reality is, that our lives were a constant battle for survival prior to electricity.

originally posted by: HODOSKE
i have been reading a lot lately about solar storms...

"Solar storm" and "solar wind" are massive misnomers. The correct term would be electric current. Solar storm and solar wind is nothing else than electrically charged particles moving through space = electric current.

If you understand that, you understand what is happening in the solar system and at earth.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
We can absolutely survive without electricity.

It depends with what you mean when you say "we".

Yes, mankind itself would survive.

No, most human beings wouldn't survive. Especially those in the developed and developing countries in larger communities would die. And then you would have more than 400 nuclear power plants worldwide melting down because they couldn't distribute the excess heat from nuclear decay. You also have pretty nasty chemicals spilling out in the world from all kind of plants that need constant monitoring and maintenance.

All in all, not a pleasant world and definitely not better than now.

a reply to: HODOSKE

Sun ‘has been erupting non-stop this month’ – and ‘giant flares are incoming’ - February 18, 2022 7:34pm

A magnificent coronal mass ejection (CME) was recorded by Nasa’s STEREO-A spacecraft in the early hours of February 15...

Fortunately, this week’s CME was fired from the side of the Sun that faces away from our planet and so poses no threat, says astronomer Dr Tony Phillips...

“However, if such a CME did strike, it could produce a very strong geomagnetic storm. We may have dodged a bullet.”

Based on its size, it’s possible that the eruption was an X-class flare: The most powerful category possible...

I'm looking forward to it. Why worry about what can't be controlled?

It would make for exciting times.

originally posted by: Nothin
a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

Heya MSB.

Am not really a knowledgeable person myself. My words should not be taken as "right".
Am just another big dummy on the internet, pretending to know more about stuff than they really do.
Please check everything with multiple sources, as am well aware that you already do.

Most of my ideas in this field were told/shown to me by a good buddy, who is an electrical engineer
for the main provider round here.

Am not sure if there are any solid methods to protect our local wires.
Maybe having the counter on a post outside of the home, with shielded underground wires to the home might help, because of the grounds on the post, counter and wires ?
Because we have no control over the wires until the counter.

Good-quality surge-protectors on our electronics, including your ham receiver/transmitter/amplifier and computers.

But the idea of the website offered in my first post : is that we potentially have some advance warning nowadays, if we have time to check those kinds of sites regularly.
Just a minute a day, could help.

Then just shut-off the main switch, before the distribution panel.
Take the fuse out even, if you have one, maybe ?
Also have a switch put-in on the post, after the counter.

Just have a way to isolate your panel, from the grid.
Unplug sensitive stuff.
Buy or assemble some faraday cages, and/or blackout containers for some pieces of electronics.

There are some yoobytooby vids, on how to build cheap blackout envelopes, for cellphones and other things.
( Also good if you need to bring a smart-phone on the road with you,
but don't want to constantly broadcast you location ... )
Old microwaves are a good place to put electronics in to protect them.

Shielded/grounded cables in the house, as much as possible, for electrical stuff.
Look into how homes are built and designed for people whom are overly sensitive to electro-magnetic fields, for some ideas.

The idea is that if you know it is coming : it can maybe be a little bit mitigated.
So even if your local line is fried : once it's repaired : you will be ready to get your stuff running.

Oh ! And make yourself a nice stylish tin-foil hat, if you haven't already ... LoL !!

I have such precautions. My generator is in a Faraday cage, my aluminum sided and tin roofed home is grounded to the point where a cell phone signal can't penetrate. I have a knife switch to go from utility power to open (middle) and then to generator. I have a TV antenna mast that is grounded and a solar panel for a DC system. There is some time if you pay attention to the warnings so I can switch out of the grid, yet if it is powerful enough, an EMP will jump any switch or breaker IMO. I should ground everything more esp. on the utility pole.

Unplug all the important stuff and hope for the best is pretty much the only option in most cases.

Lovely video

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

I just want to point out a few inaccuracies in your post, in case others get confused.

my aluminum sided and tin roofed home is grounded to the point where a cell phone signal can't penetrate.

Aluminum is a good conductor of electricity, but not of magnetism. Grounding aluminum siding around your home will prevent electrical intrusions, but does noting to prevent magnetic intrusions.

A CME is literally a Coronal Mass Ejection. The corona of the sun is a seething bed of interacting magnetic fields produced by the nuclear interactions in the core plasma. Occasionally, these magnetic fields will align themselves in such a way as to literally propel themselves off the surface (corona) of the sun at high speeds, carrying part of that highly magnetized corona with them. The resulting plasma hurtling through space is the CME, and it is just as magnetic as it was when it was part of the corona.

Our planet, at the same time, has a magnetic shield... we see the surface effects of that magnetic field in the movement of a compass needle. This shield serves to divert most CMEs and also channels electromagnetic waves and particles into the polar regions (where they interact with the atmosphere and produce the auroras).

If a large enough CME hits, it will simply overload the earth's magnetic field and come right on down to the surface. That's the issue.

A CME has both an electrical and magnetic component, but it is primarily magnetic in nature. It is quite difficult even in a lab to produce an electric potential without some magnetic effects or a magnetic field without some electrical effects. Any electrical effects from even a large CMA would be minor; most equipment is protected against direct electrical surges from outside. The magnetic fields would be the issue. Any time a magnetic field cuts through a conductor, it creates a voltage. The faster the amount of magnetic flux changes, the higher the voltage. A sufficiently large and fast-moving magnetic flux can create thousands of volts in a short wire. So essentially, every single wire or lead in an electrical circuit becomes a battery when a CME passes. Electronics are simply not made to withstand that; even electrical devices would have a very hard time withstanding that.

In short, the aluminum siding will protect your home from something like an EMP (Electro-Magnetic Pulse) where the primary concern is electric, but against a mostly-magnetic CME it will do nothing.

There is some time if you pay attention to the warnings so I can switch out of the grid, yet if it is powerful enough, an EMP will jump any switch or breaker IMO.

It is not an EMP that will jump the contacts; you have nothing that will stop an EMP. The only way to protect against an EMP is to divert it, not to stop it. That's what a Faraday cage does: it diverts the electrical and/or magnetic forces through the cage instead of the air by giving it an easier path to follow, thereby bypassing anything inside the cage.

What you are describing is the high voltage that the EMP produces. There is a difference, mainly that the high voltage will not move through an insulator (except when the dielectric strength is exceeded, at which time the insulator ionizes and becomes a conductor). The dielectric strength of air is something like 3000 V/mm, so if you have enough voltage to jump 1/2", you're talking upwards of 36 kV.

If that happens, just hang it up. The lights will be out for a while. A long while. Maybe our kids will see them come back on. Maybe.

I'll add something here: the best Faraday cage most people have available works for both magnetic and electrical phenomena. It's called a car trunk.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: Blaine91555

originally posted by: JAGStorm

originally posted by: HODOSKE
i have been reading a lot lately about solar storms. Last big one was in 1859. They say we are way over due and they usually happen every 150 years . Experts say it can wipe out our power grid and we are not prepared at all.

Remember people lived a lot longer without electricity than they did with.
The problem is we are so dependent on it today especially in regards to healthcare.

We can absolutely survive without electricity. It would take getting acclimated to the weather again.
Waking with the sun and sleeping when it goes down.We'd have to eat seaonally. We would have to clean with natural products. There is a reason why most people settled near water.

We would all probably be a lot healthier.

No, we would not be healthier. Take a look at history. We only lived to be 35-40 years old. many infants and mothers died during birth. Diseases ravaged populations. Many people now live long lives who would have died as children before technology. The world was a tough place to survive. Luckily we evolved brains that made it possible for us to live as we do now.

I spent most of a year living off the land when I was younger and while I'm glad I did it and learned how to do it successfully, it was so hard most people would die within the first few months. Eliminate technology and half the world's population would be dead in the first year I'm sure, and perhaps many more than that.

I know people like to glamorize the idea of being one with nature, but the reality is, that our lives were a constant battle for survival prior to electricity.

Exactly ^^^

The other aspect of technology we've forgotten is how it transformed us from coping with a scarcity of basic resources (food, water, shelter etc) to an abundance of resources. Abundant times often mean peaceful times.

B.T. (before tech), one way of dealing with scarce resources ... take them from someone else.

I don't think we really want to go "backwards" technologically. It will mean a return, in some places, to an ethos of "survival of the fittest", "might makes right", etc.

a reply to: Blaine91555

I spent most of a year living off the land when I was younger and while I'm glad I did it and learned how to do it successfully, it was so hard most people would die within the first few months. Eliminate technology and half the world's population would be dead in the first year I'm sure, and perhaps many more than that.

That needs to be repeated, and repeated often.

Without GPS, most people could not find their way home. Without YouTube "education," I'm not sure most people could figure out how to pick their nose. Without ATMs and electronic point-of-sale devices, most people do not have enough cash to live beyond 3 hours. And even if they do, we need calculators to make change now-a-days.

As a species, we have forgotten how to exist without technology.

This "one with nature" thing really needs to be nipped in the bud. Folks, I live as "one with nature." I am literally now 5 miles from the nearest store. My closest neighbor is literally 1/2 mile away. From my front yard, one cannot see another house, but one can see plenty of trees and broad expanses of hay, plus a few patches of scrub brush. I am about as far into nature as one can get.

And let me tell you, it is not always an easy life. I find it satisfying; I grew up out here and learned how to do what needed to be done to stay safe, but most people did not. I can walk outside at any time and I risk running into a bear... a mountain lion... or something with rabies. Not to mention coyotes. Even the less well-known critters can be dangerous: a coon, for example, is like a miniature bear with a bad attitude. It can rip a hound dog to shreds in no time, and a human would have no chance whatsoever against an angry coon. Armadillos carry leprosy, and they are hard to make dead. An angry possum can turn a man's arm into ground beef on the bone in a few minutes flat, and they carry some impressive diseases as well.

And "animal control" does not exist. Period. "Animal control" is killing the ones that threaten people, and dragging them far enough off to not create a smorgasbord and welcome sign for other critters.

If there's an emergency, expect to have to survive without help for 15 minutes, longer if it's a busy night. If a storm comes up, there's no shelter nearby unless you own it. There's no taxi, no Uber or Lyft, no bus stop at the corner down the street... if you want to go somewhere, it's car... horse... or walk.

Crime? You're on your own until the cops arrive, by which time the crime is over. Either be ready to defend yourself or be ready to meet your Maker.

As I said, I love it out here. I grew up in it and I know how to survive. Still, I use as many creature comforts as possible to make my life easier. Of the people who move in close by (I consider that anywhere within 5 miles), 95%+ don't last two years. They can't handle it. They need technology to survive. Hell, the people who do live out here need some technology to thrive.

So, for anyone who thinks "getting back to nature" is a good thing... stop. Unless you know how to live without technology, it's a death sentence if carried out for too long.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

That was very educational TheRedneck , i also thought that aluminium / grounding would help against CME .

I dont have full car trunk like in sedan models....is inside car still ok if i add aluminium or other metal cover for the upper part car to cover roof and windows ?

Does big enough hole in ground work at all against CME ? Does CME penetrate ground/soil also ? if had like cave storage few meters deep ?

a reply to: Kenzo

A lot of trunks are open to the interior of the car, separated only by the back seat. If that's your issue, I wouldn't worry about it. That will reduce protection, but not by much. The body of the vehicle also adds some protection.

Aluminum won't do much good against magnetic effects... it is only good for electrical. Also, don't worry too much about small openings, as they won't allow a lot of a EMP through anyway. The EMP is traveling through a difficult medium anyway (the air), so any path it finds that works out easier, it will take. Imagine a foot square hole... the EMP has a choice: move to the side a half foot at the most and skip a few feet of air, or take the few feet of air. It will take the easiest path as long as that path can handle the load.

All conductive materials have a resistance (technically, resistivity) that limits their conductivity by overheating them if too much current passes... that's the overload condition, and the chances of that actually happening are pretty rare (it's actually how fuses work). Ferromagnetic materials have a magnetic saturation point, where they cannot hold any more magnetic flux, and that would be the overload condition for them. After saturation, they act like a paramagnetic material (like air, for instance). But if you have a CME powerful enough to reach saturation in a car body... dude, hang it up. It wasn't meant to be!

Cave storage would depend on the soil. It wouldn't be great in any case, but if the soil contained enough ferromagnetic materials (like rich in iron or nickle) it might give a small amount of protection.

The very best place for small electronics would be a steel safe. That would protect against anything that doesn't just fry everything else around it immediately. Steel has a relative permeability of anywhere from 100 to 1000 (100 to 1000 times the magnetic conductivity of air) depending on the exact alloy, and a saturation point of around one Tesla. That's pretty good. High purity iron, if you can find it and afford it, has a relative permeability of around 5000 and a saturation that can approach 2 Teslas.

To compare to aluminum, the relative permeability is about 1... same as air. Magnetic saturation is almost infinite, though, again, like air. Where magnetism is concerned, it might as well be plastic.

(just to be exact, I reference air as the basis for relative permeability... it is actually free space. Air permeativity is just so close to free space and it seems to be easier for most people to grasp the concept.)

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Ok thanks, steel safe sounds good idea , at least for smaller electrical devices.


Hopefully big CME is not coming soon I need time to prepare . We might be living in borroved time thought...

originally posted by: HODOSKE
i have been reading a lot lately about solar storms. Last big one was in 1859. They say we are way over due and they usually happen every 150 years . Experts say it can wipe out our power grid and we are not prepared at all. Can take years for power to be fully restored. I have always thought about getting a whole house generator but they usually only give power for about a week. Any one else worried about this? Any ideas on how to prepare for this? seems like any generator i look at the do not last long and you will eventually run out of gas or propane. Maybe solar. . Would like your thoughts. www.britannica.com...

You should worry about a huge geo magnetical solar storm that could rip the electro magnetic field and the atmospheric gasses that protect from direct impact. Electric power lines should be the least of your concern.

This gigantic storm that is going to obliverate the protective layer and then there is nothing to do because particles will just shower the earth and cause a painfull death

a reply to: TheRedneck

Thanks, I hadn't thought of the magnetism and what can conduct that. I guess storage in a proper Faraday cage made of steel is the best solution during a CME.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
So, for anyone who thinks "getting back to nature" is a good thing... stop. Unless you know how to live without technology, it's a death sentence if carried out for too long.

TheRedneck

Absolutely agreed. There is a reason why mankind progressed from the middle ages to modern society ... including appliances like washing machines and electric light. Most people are insane, literally, fantasizing about "getting back to nature" while having all the conveniences of modern society (such as abundant education available, human rights, pursuit of happiness and lots and lots more). They should read up about the feudalism of the medieval ages, the endless and totally brutal wars, and simply life being little more than surviving (at least for the masses).