Trying To Game The Roulette Wheel.

A casino has a thing called the house edge, which normally about 5% for Roulette. This means you will lose about 5 cents on every dollar you bet. So, if you original stake is $5000 and you happen to win $50,000 (unlikely), in the long run you will lose all $55,000 plus about $2,750 for a total lose of $57,750. Casino gambling is bull# for people thinking they can beat the system for profit. Won't happen. The casino always wins unless someone cheats. Is why they have so many hawks watching casino gamblers.

originally posted by: eManym
A casino has a thing called the house edge, which normally about 5% for Roulette. This means you will lose about 5 cents on every dollar you bet. So, if you original stake is $5000 and you happen to win $50,000 (unlikely), in the long run you will lose all $55,000 plus about $2,750 for a total lose of $57,750. Casino gambling is bull# for people thinking they can beat the system for profit. Won't happen. The casino always wins unless someone cheats. Is why they have so many hawks watching casino gamblers.

This generally correct.

But a legal skill edge can beat croupier once

a reply to: JohnTitorSociety
How can you beat a game with skill if there is monetary lose built into the game? 0 00

originally posted by: eManym
a reply to: JohnTitorSociety
How can you beat a game with skill if there is monetary lose built into the game?

It's not easy but it's been done. Watch the movie "21", a reference to blackjack where the house edge is not as great as the roulette wheel. In the movie, a professor and some college students figured out how to do it but when they won too much they got kicked out of the casino and were banned, or worse. The casinos do not welcome anybody who wins consistently and not only do they blacklist you from ever gambling there again, but they share their blacklists so you can't gamble anywhere else in town either without a disguise and fake ID or something.

21 (2008)

Inspired by real events and people, 21 is about six MIT students who become trained to be experts in card counting in Black Jack and subsequently took Vegas casinos for millions in winnings.

Note: "Inspired by real events and people...", so it really happened although it's been dramatized somewhat for theater. You can also read Ben Mezrich's book "Bringing Down the House" which tells the true story of the real MIT Blackjack Team during the 1990s. Here's one example of the differences between the movie and the real life story:

Was an MIT professor really the leader of the Blackjack Team?

No. In the movie 21, an unorthodox math professor named Micky Rosa (Kevin Spacey) leads the team. The 21 true story reveals that the real MIT Blackjack Team was led by three individuals, none of whom were professors. Arguably, the most notable is Bill Kaplan, a Harvard Business school graduate who had also done his undergraduate studies at Harvard. John Chang and J.P. Massar were also very much the basis for 21's Micky Rosa. "While [author] Ben Mezrich has been quoted as saying that Micky Rosa was a composite of myself, J.P. Massar, and John Chang, the fact is there is little, if anything, that resembles either of us except that he started and ran the team and was focused on running the team as a business," says Bill Kaplan. John Chang graduated from MIT in 1985 with a degree in electrical engineering. An influential member of the original team, Chang would later re-team with Bill Kaplan as a co-manager in the early 1990s. J.P. Massar ("Mr. M" in the History Channel documentary Breaking Vegas) was an MIT alum who had helped Kaplan manage the original team in the early 1980s, shortly after the first casinos opened in Atlantic City. -Bill Kaplan

Anyway, the Casino edge is only 0.44% if you can memorize this chart and follow it (so you'll still lose if this is all you do, the card counting is what turns that small edge for the house into an edge for the player):

21 - Blackjack "Basic Strategy" Chart
The Casinos do not like card counters, so I'm not recommending trying this method. After the MIT team took millions from them, they now scrutinize anybody who starts making big bets in the middle of a shoe. Also, counting cards, like the house edge, is statistical, and statistical methods don't guarantee a short term win. The house can lose money in the short term to a fair player in spite of the 0.44% house edge, and a card counter can likewise lose money in the short term. The biggest one day loss in the movie for the MIT card-counting team was $200,000, in real life it was "only" $130,000.

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

originally posted by: eManym
a reply to: JohnTitorSociety
How can you beat a game with skill if there is monetary lose built into the game?

It's not easy but it's been done. Watch the movie "21", a reference to blackjack where the house edge is not as great as the roulette wheel. In the movie, a professor and some college students figured out how to do it but when they won too much they got kicked out of the casino and were banned, or worse. The casinos do not welcome anybody who wins consistently and not only do they blacklist you from ever gambling there again, but they share their blacklists so you can't gamble anywhere else in town either without a disguise and fake ID or something.

21 (2008)

Inspired by real events and people, 21 is about six MIT students who become trained to be experts in card counting in Black Jack and subsequently took Vegas casinos for millions in winnings.

Note: "Inspired by real events and people...", so it really happened although it's been dramatized somewhat for theater. You can also read Ben Mezrich's book "Bringing Down the House" which tells the true story of the real MIT Blackjack Team during the 1990s. Here's one example of the differences between the movie and the real life story:

Was an MIT professor really the leader of the Blackjack Team?

No. In the movie 21, an unorthodox math professor named Micky Rosa (Kevin Spacey) leads the team. The 21 true story reveals that the real MIT Blackjack Team was led by three individuals, none of whom were professors. Arguably, the most notable is Bill Kaplan, a Harvard Business school graduate who had also done his undergraduate studies at Harvard. John Chang and J.P. Massar were also very much the basis for 21's Micky Rosa. "While [author] Ben Mezrich has been quoted as saying that Micky Rosa was a composite of myself, J.P. Massar, and John Chang, the fact is there is little, if anything, that resembles either of us except that he started and ran the team and was focused on running the team as a business," says Bill Kaplan. John Chang graduated from MIT in 1985 with a degree in electrical engineering. An influential member of the original team, Chang would later re-team with Bill Kaplan as a co-manager in the early 1990s. J.P. Massar ("Mr. M" in the History Channel documentary Breaking Vegas) was an MIT alum who had helped Kaplan manage the original team in the early 1980s, shortly after the first casinos opened in Atlantic City. -Bill Kaplan

Anyway, the Casino edge is only 0.44% if you can memorize this chart and follow it (so you'll still lose if this is all you do, the card counting is what turns that small edge for the house into an edge for the player):

21 - Blackjack "Basic Strategy" Chart
The Casinos do not like card counters, so I'm not recommending trying this method. After the MIT team took millions from them, they now scrutinize anybody who starts making big bets in the middle of a shoe. Also, counting cards, like the house edge, is statistical, and statistical methods don't guarantee a short term win. The house can lose money in the short term to a fair player in spite of the 0.44% house edge, and a card counter can likewise lose money in the short term. The biggest one day loss in the movie for the MIT card-counting team was $200,000, in real life it was "only" $130,000.

I only play poker, where I can control variance to some degree.

But this post above is the best explanation of the few ways to use “player skill edge” and deterministic events to take the House.

But you will get banned once it is noticed.

And the prior post also highlights how large a bankroll you require to actually execute it — you need to be comfortable with at least six figure swings.

Your insights on blackjack and card counting are spot on, Arbitrageur. It's a fascinating subject, and you've highlighted the challenges and risks involved. Poker is indeed a game where player skill plays a significant role.

a reply to: Degradation33

16 red ones 18 black ones with the ability to choose just red or black... puts the odds in your favor when just choosing black.

originally posted by: Crowfoot
a reply to: Degradation33

16 red ones 18 black ones with the ability to choose just red or black... puts the odds in your favor when just choosing black.

Do you have a source for that? I thought the number of red and black is always the same, and it's never in your favor.

However the number of greens varies, from 1 to 3, and if it lands on green your bets on red or black will lose. The more greens the greater your chance of losing, so if you must play roulette, ypu should prefer a roulette wheel with one green, but they are hard to find. Two greens is more common. Some even have three greens and you should definitely avoid those (maybe avoid all three types unless you like gambling enough to give the house the house edge). These are the odds for wheels with one green (single zero) or two greens (double zero):

Red or Black: Which Should You Bet On In Roulette?
One green:

The odds of winning your red or black wager on a single-zero roulette wheel is 48.6%. This is worse than the 50% chance that your uninformed friends might have suggested. However, this is the best win probability that you can find for a roulette red or black bet.

Two greens:

The odds of winning on a red or black bet sinks when playing American roulette instead of the European roulette rules. The win probability of red or black drops to 47.34%. This is due to an extra pocket on the wheel.

Note that says the odds of winning on either red or black are the same, contrary to what you say, so either what you say is wrong or you need to provide a source for your claim.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

yeah miscounting the amount of reds and blacks

Your insights on blackjack and card counting are spot on, Arbitrageur. It's a fascinating subject, and you've highlighted the challenges and risks involved. Poker is indeed a game where player skill plays a significant role.
Speaking of gaming, have you ever considered exploring bonusbet slots ? They offer a different kind of thrill, and it's a way to enjoy casino games that don't involve card counting. They provide valuable information and reviews, which might pique your interest in this exciting gaming option.
It's always interesting to have a variety of gaming experiences to choose from.

originally posted by: FelicityWright
Speaking of gaming, have you ever considered exploring bonusbet slots ? They offer a different kind of thrill, and it's a way to enjoy casino games that don't involve card counting. They provide valuable information and reviews, which might pique your interest in this exciting gaming option.
It's always interesting to have a variety of gaming experiences to choose from.

I went to the link you posted. I almost never get a blank page, but I got a blank page:

I have security on my browser that makes it difficult for wensites to steal information from me or infect my system, but still that usually doesn't result in a blank page so I wondered what that's about.

I checked some reviews all of them were negative. Here's what this site had to say:

BonusBet Casino Review

We've thoroughly reviewed BonusBet Casino and gave it a Very low Safety Index, which means we don't consider it a safe casino to play at. In our review, we've considered the casino's player complaints, estimated revenues, license, games genuineness, customer support quality, fairness of terms and conditions, withdrawal and win limits, and other factors. So, if you were ever wondering whether this casino is safe and legit or a scam, read the full review below to learn more.

According to our research and estimates, BonusBet Casino is a smaller online casino revenue-wise. The revenue of a casino is an important factor, as bigger casinos shouldn't have any issues paying out big wins, while smaller casinos could potentially struggle if you manage to win really big.

We currently have 3 complaints about this casino in our database. Because of these complaints, we've given this casino 1,955 black points in total. You can find more information about all of the complaints and black points in the 'Safety Index explained' part of this review.

There are also some unfair Bonus Terms and Conditions, which might cause you issues if you decide to take advantage of the casino's bonuses or promotions.

That same site had five user reviews and all of them are very negative, ssying the site keeps asking for more and more documentation to allow people to withdraw their money and it's never enough. for example, here's one:

really bad casino!! DO NOT PLAY HERE! have gave them every document they needed but they still keep going on with something else and now after 10 document that are accepted i have been waiting for 16days now on the withdrawl and havent heard a word from them. Bad customer service Keep away from this company.

That same review site says that bonusbet doesn't offer any bonuses in my state, and doesn't even accept players from my state! Thank goodness but even if they did, I wouldn't play there after seeing such bad reviews. I have played poker online, since as people have said, there is some skill involved in that game, and it's not just statistical like roulette.

Wow, you've been lucky, you could've lost it all the first try.