Regardless of actual truth, would one rather there be or not be some kind of Supreme Being?

a reply to: Plunkenstein

Jesus / Yeshua Hamashiach

You need not bother with the false gods / fallen watchers.

Well the question of, if there is, or isn't.
Apparently, nobody seems to know?

Some "scientist" would have you believe, "First there was nothing. Then all that nothing,... exploded".
And we all know things that explode, creates "life".
It has been "scientifically" observed, many times.🤔

That's why, when us mere mortals, wage war on each other? We use "science". Because we care and believe.

Then, there are some "scientist" that actually believe in science.

If any "scientist " can prove that order or perfection, can come from chaos? ...Without, outside (third party) manipulation or design? They'd have my attention. Until then? They're a bunch of quacks with a stupid "Hypothesis" (educated guess), which is just as ignorant, as an "uneducated guess", when you declare it as a "scientific fact". Especially, when you can't reproduce it in a lab, without destroying the planet you live on.

Science has become nothing more than a search for,...an excuse for doubt.

I'll dumb this down, for ya'll.
The day you see a "scientist" or "educated" person, backing a "supreme being" and you believe them?
That's the day the "Supreme Being", warned us about.

Every person immediately upon death enters either Heaven or Hell.

a reply to: ussmidway

It is appointed unto man, to die.

After death, comes the judgment.

We (human souls) will live "forever", somewhere.

Hopefully folks will plan their eternity, better than they plan vacations.

If you asked me where the device on which I am writing this post came from and I told your that it just farted itself into existence, that a bunch of molecules lined up by accidental happenstance over a period of eons and made this thing, you would tell me that I was an idiot. There's far too much complexity and organization, too much clear design, too much evidence of purpose to assume that it just happened.

Yet, many here will look at the universe - exceeding the complexity of a cell phone or even the most advanced computer by orders of magnitude times orders of magnitude - shrug their shoulders and say, Meh, it's all just a big coincidence that happened by accident.

That, my friend, takes uninformed blind faith: unbridled faith in nothing. It's not even a matter "not believing in anything," but of actually having faith in nothing. One must put one's faith - with no evidence, no solid reason, no cogent argument -
in the ability of the great void to create order out of chaos (which is a physical impossibility given the laws of thermodynamics).

Given that, the question is a non sequitur. It doesn't make any sense. It's like asking, Would you rather the sun exist or not exist? Only much more nonsensical.

I, therefore, simply cannot answer that question. I am neither that stupid not that intellectually dishonest.

ETA: Romans 1:19-20 -- For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
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Preferably not. Existance of a god would mean that it deliberatly created all this cruelty. Knowing God is cruel and sadistic would make me sad. What an aweful reality.

originally posted by: CptGreenTea
Preferably not. Existance of a god would mean that it deliberatly created all this cruelty. Knowing God is cruel and sadistic would make me sad. What an aweful reality.

The reality is that God did got create the cruelty. In the godhead, there is no evil, selfishness, cruelty. But God created, and the act of creation brought into existence a matrix outside of the divine singularity that necessitated a multidimensional universe - multidimensional in terms of space, time and morality.

This led to two choices: a universe filled with automatons that could only carry out what they were programmed to do, or creatures with the ability to choose within the multidimensional construct.

The only other alternative was to not create. I am happy that that course was not taken as I (and you) would not exist at all,v and existence (even with the presence is evil) is a gift as it allows us the opportunity to fight against the evil.

Given the moral multidimensional nature of the universe, we all - as creatures with the ability to choose - are morally responsible. This means that the predominance of evil, cruelty, suffering or its undoing is the responsibility of each of us within our own realm of influence.

Yes, you are responsible for the predominance of suffering and cruelty in your own sphere of existence.

Throwing the blame on God is a coward's copout. The worn out old adage, BE THE CHANGE THAT YOU WANT TO SEE, is actually painfully true, but it's easier to blame God while sitting on your ass and whining instead of partnering with God to bring about the reality of His kingdom here and now.

ETA: The foundation of the eschatological hope of the Christian faith is that the process of redemption through which creation is being brought will ultimately solve the problem of evil completely. In a multidimensional construct, it simply had to be dealt with. Get off your butt and be part of the solution!

Romans 8:18-22 -- For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to (or in us. For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

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edit on 2022 8 29 by incoserv because: ETA.

originally posted by: nugget1

originally posted by: KKLOCO

originally posted by: nugget1
a reply to: KKLOCO

The question is, do we get a break from the madness between lives?

According to the beliefs of those who follow the reincarnation theory we join our 'group' or 'tribe' off-world and review our lives to see if we attained they goals we set out to learn-for as long as we like/need to.
When we have identified the lesson we need to learn, we choose our next life and the parents that will best benefit our soul growth.
Once our soul has 'matured' enough we can rise above the earth plane and no longer need to reincarnate.

Yes, this is the nice and fluffy way of belief. It’s what I believed for 20 years. I’m just not so sure the process is so forgiving. The further down the rabbit hole I go, the more it appears that we are in essence ‘trapped’ here.

I most certainly hope we get to choose our parents. Because a persons parents has the most influence how an individual turns out. Which also has me very confused about why I supposedly chose mine….

That's where the whole Karam thing comes in. Did you hate people of a certain nationality? You may choose to reincarnate into that ethnic group in the future to understand them and overcome that negative aspect of your nature.

Karma. I've heard it described: "You become what you hate."

a reply to: KKLOCO

Do we? Or do we just get recycled back into this sh!thole?

You do realize it's only sh1thole because of us right?

originally posted by: Randyvine2
a reply to: KKLOCO

Do we? Or do we just get recycled back into this sh!thole?

You do realize it's only sh1thole because of us right?

The essential point of my reply to CptGreenTea. Thank you.

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: Plunkenstein

Yes , and there is Proof that a Supreme Being used an " Intelligent Design " to Create the Universe we Currently Reside in . Order from Chaos does not Happen by Chance I Believe....

That wasn't the issue. The issue is: REGARDLESS of the TRUTH, would you rather there be one or not? "Is it true or not" is a different question.

And you've failed to answer. What's your preference?

Hint

Even a blind dog can still find a plate of food.

originally posted by: Randyvine2

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: Plunkenstein

Yes , and there is Proof that a Supreme Being used an " Intelligent Design " to Create the Universe we Currently Reside in . Order from Chaos does not Happen by Chance I Believe....

That wasn't the issue. The issue is: REGARDLESS of the TRUTH, would you rather there be one or not? "Is it true or not" is a different question.

And you've failed to answer. What's your preference?

Hint

Even a blind dog can still find a plate of food.

But if the "plate of food" is actually a pile of rocks, even a blind dog is smart enough to know what it is and not bite!

As I stated above in my reply (acknowledging that your post was not directed at me), any answer to this question demands intellectual dishonesty at best...

ETA: For anyone who wants to split hairs, I replied to the OP, I did not answer the question posited.
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a reply to: incoserv

But if the "plate of food" is actually a pile of rocks,

Would you expect a blind dog to find a pile of rocks?

I'd hate to have you as an owner. Just saying.

BTW I'd much rather be created by a Holy being than leave my
being to the infinite number of chances that constitute dependence
on a muddy bogg to do the magic. That is beyond ridiculous.

a reply to: incoserv

If you asked me where the device on which I am writing this post came from and I told your that it just farted itself into existence, that a bunch of molecules lined up by accidental happenstance over a period of eons and made this thing, you would tell me that I was an idiot. There's far too much complexity and organization, too much clear design, too much evidence of purpose to assume that it just happened.

Perfect!

a reply to: Plunkenstein

I think you really need to define the parameters of the question before it can be answered.

What we have currently are faith based religions. If a Supreme Being were to drop in one day and say "Hi", that would pretty much yank the rug out from under faith and replace it with, "I am the Supreme Being, do as I say, believe as I believe, think as I think, or else." That is not religion, that is ruler and subject. Not what you normally look for in a deity.

Typically, anything we haven't figured out how to take credit for, or, don't want to take the blame for we ascribe to God. If someone ends up suffering some great turmoil in life its easier to both say and hear, "It was God's will", rather than, "He screwed up." One relieves us of the burden of our own failures in addition to the results. Its bad enough to have to pick up the pieces without being constantly reminded that its all your fault too. Then prayer can be seen as an acknowledgement of the mistake and seeking a solution. If you look at great personal tragedy and how religion is woven in, it pretty well follows the five stages of grief. Its sort of a universal coping mechanism.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: Plunkenstein

I think you really need to define the parameters of the question before it can be answered.

What we have currently are faith based religions. If a Supreme Being were to drop in one day and say "Hi", that would pretty much yank the rug out from under faith and replace it with, "I am the Supreme Being, do as I say, believe as I believe, think as I think, or else." That is not religion, that is ruler and subject. Not what you normally look for in a deity.

Typically, anything we haven't figured out how to take credit for, or, don't want to take the blame for we ascribe to God. If someone ends up suffering some great turmoil in life its easier to both say and hear, "It was God's will", rather than, "He screwed up." One relieves us of the burden of our own failures in addition to the results. Its bad enough to have to pick up the pieces without being constantly reminded that its all your fault too. Then prayer can be seen as an acknowledgement of the mistake and seeking a solution. If you look at great personal tragedy and how religion is woven in, it pretty well follows the five stages of grief. Its sort of a universal coping mechanism.

Any being or beings who doesn't/don't fully understand the concepts of democracy, consensus and science isn't/aren't worthy of being deemed advanced. Things aren't as simplistic and holistic as the existing political world.

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: nugget1
a reply to: KKLOCO

The question is, do we get a break from the madness between lives?

According to the beliefs of those who follow the reincarnation theory we join our 'group' or 'tribe' off-world and review our lives to see if we attained they goals we set out to learn-for as long as we like/need to.
When we have identified the lesson we need to learn, we choose our next life and the parents that will best benefit our soul growth.
Once our soul has 'matured' enough we can rise above the earth plane and no longer need to reincarnate.

On this I've always wondered:
For those mass murderers/Holocaust-makers out there... Did they fall waaay short of their soul lessons, or did they set some really heinous soul goal? And if it's the first, did they choose the wrong parents or just what?

Were they leaders of the movement or followers? The majority is in the latter.

I believe proof of such a being could, or at least should, be the ultimate unifying factor for humanity. Question then becomes what that is at least in the area of omnipotence qualifies one to make such a claim, obviously along with that which would clearly qualify as proof.

Never forget "teamwork makes the dream work." I believe there is a likely polytheistic aspect of the unknown/unseen that is seemingly most likely egregiously overlooked. I have a substantial enough history of unexplained experiences of which I can in best conscience abstain from being more specific.

a reply to: Plunkenstein

Only speaking in human terms, which is all I have, I would not want to be omnipotent. I remember a line from Cordelia in the TV series "Angel", which I had thought about even before I heard it. She had become a "god" and was sitting up in her perch, looking down, and said, and I paraphrase, "This is really boring." I would rather have a lot of knowledge, like Castiel in "Supernatural", but not know everything. Just my two cents.

The Kardashev scale, if it was true/accurate it would explain a lot.

Big if though.

a reply to: Plunkenstein

Never forget "teamwork makes the dream work." I believe there is a likely polytheistic aspect of the unknown/unseen that is seemingly most likely egregiously overlooked. I have a substantial enough history of unexplained experiences of which I can in best conscience abstain from being more specific.

Yep, like the Nature Spirits, the Fae, the Fairy folk of the European and lore of the Isles. The Jinns of the Muslim lands, the Asuras of the Vedic lore, and so on. Just about every folk on earth has a rich history of Spirit Beings who were here long before science and monothesic religions did their best to rewrite history and extinguish the folk lore.

(I got to give this thread it's first flag 35 replies in. Forshame ATS folks . . . : )