Finland & Sweden cleared to join NATO

If it weren't for Russia's nuclear arsenal none of this would be happening. Their armed forces are extremely poor performers, made worse by significant tactical and strategic errors.

Removing the nukes will make Russia impotent.

Entirely predictable.

I'm only surprised they didn't join years ago.

We can now see the importance of NATO.

I just hope present circumstances have given existing members the impetus to keep up with their financial commitments.

Vladimir Putin expressed his opinion on the entry of Finland and Sweden into NATO.


Vladimir Putin answered journalists’ questions

June 29, 2022 23:25

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Question:

Mr President, Turkey has abandoned its convictions on the issue of Sweden and Finland’s accession to NATO. Will that decision have any effect on Russia-Turkey relations? What will Russia do now, especially in light of Stoltenberg’s statement that you wanted less NATO on Russia’s borders but got the opposite: more NATO.


Vladimir Putin:

I am aware of this premise, which is wrong and bears no relation to reality. Our position has always been, as I have already said during this conversation today, that NATO is a relic of the Cold War and is only being used as an instrument of US foreign policy designed to keep its client states in rein. This is its only mission. We have given them that opportunity, I understand that. They are using these arguments energetically and quite effectively to rally their so-called allies. This is the first point.

On the other hand, regarding Sweden and Finland, we do not have such problems with Sweden and Finland as we have, regrettably, with Ukraine. We do not have territorial issues or disputes with them. There is nothing that could inspire our concern regarding Finland and Sweden’s accession to NATO. If they want it, they can do it.

However, they should know that they did not face any threats before but, if military contingents and infrastructure are deployed in their territory now, we will have to take mirror-like actions and create the same threats for them that are created for us. This is obvious. Don’t they understand this? Everything was good between us before, but now there will be tension, which is obvious and certainly unavoidable if, as I have said, any threats are created for us.

As for the assumption that we were fighting against NATO approaching us through Ukraine but now have Sweden and Finland to deal with, there is no substance behind it at all, because Finland and Sweden’s NATO membership is not at all the same as the potential membership of Ukraine. These are two different things. They know this very well, but they are promoting this idea to show that Russia has received more of what it did not want to have. No, this is entirely different, and we are aware of that. And they are aware of that. They are trying to substitute these notions, to show that Russia has not attained its goals. But this will not deceive us.

If Sweden and Finland want to join NATO, let them do it. You know, there are rude jokes about stepping into unsavoury things. This is their business. Let them step into what they wish. But Ukraine is a totally different matter. They were turning Ukraine into an anti-Russia, a bridgehead for trying to stir up Russia itself. They began fighting Russian culture and the Russian language, they began to persecute those who regarded themselves part of the Russian world. There is nothing like that in Finland or Sweden; the situation is completely different. If they want to join [the bloc], they are free to do it.

en.kremlin.ru...


It is a pity that those who thought that Russia would be in a panic from this did not get what they expected to see.

a reply to: turretless

Putin stated "As for the assumption that we were fighting against NATO approaching us through Ukraine but now have Sweden and Finland to deal with, there is no substance behind it at all, because Finland and Sweden’s NATO membership is not at all the same as the potential membership of Ukraine. These are two different things"

Spot on as The Finns and Swedes mean nothing to Russia in reality, while Ukraine is considered their domain indeed the jewel in the crown of the FSU.

Ukraine in the south and east is Russian by development, heck letting NATO take control of that region to Moscow it's like the Mexicans taking control of Washington or the Irish control Belfast. Never going to happen

a reply to: turretless

Just a few months ago he threatened to nuke Sweden and Finland if they joined NATO.

He's only trying to play it cool now because Sweden and Finland called his bluff, making him look weak.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
a reply to: turretless

Putin stated "As for the assumption that we were fighting against NATO approaching us through Ukraine but now have Sweden and Finland to deal with, there is no substance behind it at all, because Finland and Sweden’s NATO membership is not at all the same as the potential membership of Ukraine. These are two different things"

Spot on

as The Finns and Swedes mean nothing to Russia in reality, while Ukraine is considered their domain indeed the jewel in the crown of the FSU.

Ukraine in the south and east is Russian by development, heck letting NATO take control of that region to Moscow it's like the Mexicans taking control of Washington or the Irish control Belfast. Never going to happen

The point here is not that Ukraine is the domain of Russia. No one in Russia paid much attention to Ukraine while it was a normal country.

But at the moment when:

They were turning Ukraine into an anti-Russia, a bridgehead for trying to stir up Russia itself. They began fighting Russian culture and the Russian language, they began to persecute those who regarded themselves part of the Russian world.

At this point, Russia, of course, had to retaliate.



By the way, apparently not everyone who is in NATO likes NATO.
Anti-NATO rally held in Madrid

2 hours ago

An anti-NATO demonstration was held in the Spanish capital of Madrid on the second day of the bloc’s summit, prompting a large police deployment as the authorities imposed a ban on protests during the event.

rutube.ru...

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
He's only trying to play it cool now because Sweden and Finland called his bluff, making him look weak.

Weaker.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: turretless

Just a few months ago he threatened to nuke Sweden and Finland if they joined NATO.

He's only trying to play it cool now because Sweden and Finland called his bluff, making him look weak.

I want to see a link confirming your words.

When and at what event did he threaten these two countries with nuclear weapons?

a reply to: turretless

Lol good luck to any Spanish who think they can leave NATO, for good or for worse 'membership' is like the Hotel California.

On the Ukraine front totally agree, while Ukraine kept outside influence out everything was spot on. I think from memory it was 2008 when it was announced the intention to 'make' Ukraine a NATO member. Red flag to a bull time really.

There is no way on planet Earth Russia was ever going to allow NATO into Ukraine which was going to happen at some point in time. Western meddling started this war and I guess those meddlers will seek to drag this one out until every young man in Ukraine is dead.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

I think from memory it was 2008 when it was announced the intention to 'make' Ukraine a NATO member. Red flag to a bull time really.

Do you happen to remember why Ukraine sought closer ties with NATO and the West starting in 2008?

It was because of another of Russia's illegal land grabs. That time in Georgia. Ukraine realized it was only a matter of time before they were next and they wanted the protections the West could provide.

So once again, all of this is Russia's making.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

Yes Xcal its all one big game of chess, yet there is no way a response from Russia was to be unexpected by promoting NATO membership for Ukraine.

To me it's crazy. Total lack of respect to a nation that has it's sphere of influence.

It takes two to tango in foreign affairs when they get to breaking point, both sides share a responsibility yet this is all kicking off on Russia's border. Some place that is really important to Moscow considering the numerous invasions of Russia by the West over the last 220 years.

a reply to: network dude

Something like the "Streisand Effect".

a reply to: TerraLiga

Historically Russia / Soviet Union has always thought in terms of "quantity" over "quality".

a reply to: TerraLiga

Exactly. These days I have to wonder if their nuclear capability isn't a paper tiger.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
a reply to: turretless

Lol good luck to any Spanish who think they can leave NATO, for good or for worse 'membership' is like the Hotel California.

On the Ukraine front totally agree, while Ukraine kept outside influence out everything was spot on. I think from memory it was 2008 when it was announced the intention to 'make' Ukraine a NATO member. Red flag to a bull time really.

There is no way on planet Earth Russia was ever going to allow NATO into Ukraine which was going to happen at some point in time. Western meddling started this war and I guess those meddlers will seek to drag this one out until every young man in Ukraine is dead.

The first Maidan organized by the West happened in Ukraine in 2004.

This is how Putin then commented on all this.


Joint Press Conference with Portuguese Prime Minister Pedro Santana Lopes

November 23, 2004 23:53

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Question:

The Prime Minister said in his speech that you discussed the results of the elections in Ukraine. Mr President, I would like to ask you if you think that the situation in Ukraine is normal, as Russia is now the only country that recognised the results of the second round of voting. The outgoing President of Ukraine virtually blamed the European Union for inciting a civil war in Ukraine. How do you look at this situation?


Mr Putin:

We cannot recognise or refute the results of elections in Ukraine, because they have not been announced officially yet. We recommend everyone to follow our example. Everything must stay within the field of law. Ukraine is a major European nation with a developed legal system. It does not need to be taught, it can teach others itself. I did indeed congratulate one of the candidates of the presidential election according to the results of exit polls. But the final decision can only be taken by the Central Electoral Commission of Ukraine.

I am aware of the statement made by EU foreign ministers yesterday, and I particularly noticed the last point in this statement, which calls for all sides in the presidential elections in Ukraine not to allow any violence. I fully endorse this position and would add that everyone needs to stay within the bounds of the law.

As for the part of the statement that casts doubt on the results of the elections, citing an OSCE observer, I would like to say the following: I think that this comment is inappropriate, as there are no results, the results have not been announced. And as the statement was made citing an OSCE observer, I think that the observers from this organisation should also take a more careful and thorough approach to their work. We know the difficulties that the elections in Afghanistan faced. We know how elections took place in Kosovo, where hundreds of thousands of Serbs who were driven out of their homes could not come to take part in voting. I can tell you in advance what the conclusion of the OSCE observers will be on the upcoming elections in Iraq, and you also know this. But if anyone tries to use the OSCE as a political tool for achieving tactical goals, which are not always justified, then this organisation will lose its authority on the international stage and will lose any reason to exist. That is all.

.......................................
Question:

I would like to ask what you think about the recent expansion of the European Union, and the fact that the European Union has come closer to Russia, and is now essentially right next to it. Do you see this as a threat to Russia or as the chance to widen economic and other ties with the European Union? And I would also like to ask the Portuguese Prime Minister, the issue of immigrants was also probably discussed about immigrants living in Portugal, including from Russia. In the final joint statement, one paragraph mentioned the necessity of increasing ties in the sphere of education, and this is the only aspect that mentions Russians living in Portugal. Were other topics raised relating to this issue?


Mr Putin:

You know, back in Tsarist times one Russian state figure said that Russia has two allies – the army and the navy. I would like for these times to be in the past. We want relations of equal rights with all our partners. So we are not worried about the expansion of the European Union. On the contrary, we see this as a sign of natural and objective processes of globalisation. But we know how many people in the world feel about these processes – and for good reason, because there are many contradictions in these processes. Of course, there are problems connected with the expansion of the European Economic Union, for the organisation itself and for the relations of this organisation with other countries. We are fully resolved to solve these problems together with our partners. We have agreed to develop relations in four main areas: the economy, the humanitarian sphere, internal and foreign security, and science. It is important not to create new dividing lines in Europe, and I hope that with the new leadership of the EU commission, we will develop the same relations that we have with Portugal – especially as the person who heads the commission of European communities now is well-known in Portugal.

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Mr Putin:

Incidentally, people talk about dividing lines. Attempts to use bugbears of the past in the Ukrainian situation – to paint one candidate in Russian colours, and the other in western colours – these are attempts to put these bugbears into modern international relations. This is absolutely counterproductive from the standpoint of establishing modern international relations that are designed to be long-term.

en.kremlin.ru/events/president/tran.22705

Forum cuts "t_r_a_n_s_c_r_i_p_t_s/" to "tran." in address.

You can get there via the link on this page - en.kremlin.ru...

originally posted by: taitek
This proves Sweden and Finland are Russia hating countries are de facto NATO countries prior to officially joining NATO.

Most countries not named 'Russia' don't like Russia.