Turkey agrees to back Finland and Sweden's bid to join alliance

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: scraedtosleep

This will just cause gold to go up in price.

It won't hurt Russia at all.

There has to be a better way to end this conflict that isn't tit for tat escalations.

There is..Russians go home!

originally posted by: dollukka
a reply to: projectvxn

Russian military aircrafs has done that every now and then many decades in both airspaces.. i guess they are testing are we awake or not... and we are awake.

Just a neighbor asking if our dog has pooped in their lawn.

a reply to: vonclod

I don't think it's that simple. The history of this conflict goes back further than February 24th of this year.

a reply to: dollukka

Seems like a hell of a provocative move.

Any time a nuke in on the table my level of trepidation and cautiousness goes up significantly.

a reply to: XipeTotex

That was 2012 .. don´t remember ukrainians mentioned . if you have a link or something i am willing to read.

a reply to: projectvxn

The sentiment stands going back to at least 2014 when Russia invaded Crimea and then used Russian assets to enact a plan formulated by the Kremlin that eventually grew into the Ukrainian Civil War.

There were many times over the past eight years for Russia to deescalate things but they refused to go home.

a reply to: dollukka

No links, should be able to find it still tho. But it was very weird, and the violations were serious, and it was swept under the rug just like everything else.

a reply to: gortex

Turkey and Western countries are throwing kurds under the buses what Turkey wanted from this is that they can attack SDF forces as well.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

I am sure you are truly hoping like Hillary Clinton that Ukraine becomes another Afghanistan for Russia. That is not going to work.

Hilary Clinton agrees with you more ways than you think.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: vonclod

I don't think it's that simple. The history of this conflict goes back further than February 24th of this year.

Exactly a lot longer.

originally posted by: XipeTotex

originally posted by: dollukka
a reply to: projectvxn

Russian military aircrafs has done that every now and then many decades in both airspaces.. i guess they are testing are we awake or not... and we are awake.

Just a neighbor asking if our dog has pooped in their lawn.

? Our dog ??

a reply to: dollukka

Our Dog yeah the US is using Ukraine agaisnt Russia and had being doing so for quite some time now.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

I won't disagree.

But I sure as hell would like to know why it is the United States and NATO has to escalate this conflict instead of trying to arbitrate a peace deal.

This NATO summit deliberately declined any kind of peace deal and instead just doubles down on sanctions and weapons deliveries that absolutely will extend the length of the conflict.

There has to be a better way that is equitable to both sides. Even Volodomyr Zelenskyy has said that this war only ends with diplomacy.

Telling Russia to just "go home" isn't good enough. Unless we expect to utterly defeat Russia, even to the point of destroying their government, which would bring about the destruction of Europe, the US, and God knows who else.

War is hell. I don't want to increase Satan's real estate holdings on Earth. I don't think the solution will be "we win you lose" in all of this.

a reply to: projectvxn

But I sure as hell would like to know why it is the United States and NATO has to escalate this conflict instead of trying to arbitrate a peace deal.

Because the West has seen what happens when you play the appeasement game with a madman with an army.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: vonclod

I don't think it's that simple. The history of this conflict goes back further than February 24th of this year.

It's been going on for hundreds of years(Russia messing with Ukraine) so I can agree with that. But is it, the simplest solution, but then he loses face, so ya, it's not going to happen anytime soon.

a reply to: gortex
At the start of the invasion when Sweden and Finland showed interest in joining NATO,the kremlin first said something about "a price to pay,militarily and non militarily."
Then there was an airspace incursion or two,
But then when Putin was asked about Finland and Sweden joining NATO he claimed he wasn't bothered at all as there is no border/seperatist issues with either..

Which to me at the time sounded like a load of BS.

Putin has always hated NATO for the very reason that he sees it as expansionalist-now they are about to become much larger around more of russias western borders,in the biggest expansion of a generation or more-and he's suddenly not bothered.

Yeah right!


He's going to be bothered I think.
He seemed to be bothered about the G7 meeting where all the goons were mocking him judging by what looks like an intensification of attacks in Ukraine in the last couple of days.

Guess we get to find out soon how bothered he is about NATO growing eastward again..
Feels to me like he will treat it as a major escalation-even though he made it happen really.

a reply to: vNex92

So you say XipeTotex is also Russian ?
Your dog or aircrafts are not permitted in our airspace even your dog (Putin) has lost its leech as it seems to

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: peaceinoutz

I'm guessing it's probably a smaller bribe than Turkey was blatantly asking for with their original demands.

When I say bribe, I don’t mean in a corrupt way like Erdogan himself or those close to him getting something. Turkey is doing so badly economically that it needs help so he may have just gotten a few economic requests filled for his country. It is not a bad thing to look at one's own interests.

a reply to: XipeTotex

Kekkonen was a victim of cold war between USA and Russia nothing else. He wanted good relationships with Kennedy and USA ( remember Cuba crisis ) . Finno Soviet agreement was forced in 1948 to keep Soviet somewhat happy, this treaty was post war agreement not to get involved in USSR and USA disgreements this treaty was called as Paasikivi–Kekkonen doctrine. This agreement lead to note crises when Finland joined in UN and Soviet send a note and threathened with war against Finland if it takes sides between US and Soviet Union.
What have u been reading ?

a reply to: Xcalibur254

It seems you have simple answers to complex issues.

But not much more.

The answer cannot be to prolong suffering. Keeping a proxy war going does exactly that.

We must seek a diplomatic solution. Because nuclear war over Ukraine isn't an option unless you're insane.