Clear evidence for Noah's Ark

originally posted by: daskakik
You do realize that those stories contradict the bibical one? You can't have it both ways.

10+ separate cultures separated by thousands of miles and oceans that all say that the earth was flooded with only one family of survivors to re-populate the earth... What more could you want? There's no better corroboration for any story in the history of history.

Pretty sure satan could only rule if god allows it.

All of your objections to Theology come down to you not accepting that God gave people the choice of good or evil. Of course God could stop Satan and end all evil in the snap of a finger... But then the possibility of free will for humankind gets eliminated

So unless you do god's will, not your own "free" will, you are good with god otherwise satan rules and you will be killed. If that is how you like it, more power to you.

Yeah there's objective truth, and you have the free will to choose. Good or evil. Your heart knows when you do something wrong. If you continue to do wrong do you suppose you should be rewarded with good? I continually don't understand what you think would be a better resolution.

originally posted by: cooperton
10+ separate cultures separated by thousands of miles and oceans that all say that the earth was flooded with only one family of survivors to re-populate the earth... What more could you want? There's no better corroboration for any story in the history of history.

You actually don't see how that would be impossible if only one family actually survived?

All of your objections to Theology come down to you not accepting that God gave people the choice of good or evil.

No, actually it comes down to the fact that the world could be free of evil and people could still have free will.

Then it goes off into the fact that you must do god's will, which makes free will moot.

Yeah there's objective truth, and you have the free will to choose. Good or evil. Your heart knows when you do something wrong. If you continue to do wrong do you suppose you should be rewarded with good? I continually don't understand what you think would be a better resolution.

So all the people, including babies, where evil?

If you can't see how preposterous that sounds, I don't know what to tell you.

originally posted by: daskakik

You actually don't see how that would be impossible if only one family actually survived?

Given thousands of years of time to disperse after the flood, why would the rest of the earth not be inhabited by then? These cultures maintained the story of their great grandfather who survived the flood.

No, actually it comes down to the fact that the world could be free of evil and people could still have free will.

how? If people are given the opportunity to choose good or evil then there will inevitably be evil.

Then it goes off into the fact that you must do god's will, which makes free will moot.

It is objectively beneficial to do God's will, it is not forced.

So all the people, including babies, where evil?

If you can't see how preposterous that sounds, I don't know what to tell you.

People were warned and given ample opportunity. Try to conceptualize what a hybridized race of demons ruling the world would have been like.

originally posted by: cooperton
Given thousands of years of time to disperse after the flood, why would the rest of the earth not be inhabited by then? These cultures maintained the story of their great grandfather who survived the flood.

Right, and they all remember the story just with different names.

how? If people are given the opportunity to choose good or evil then there will inevitably be evil.

Says who? Chocolate or strawberry ice cream, you are free to choose, neither is evil.

It is objectively beneficial to do God's will, it is not forced.

Sure, being threatened with eternal damnation could never be considered coercion. /s

People were warned and given ample opportunity.

As if babies and toddlers, who must have also died, had an opportunity to choose.

Try to conceptualize what a hybridized race of demons ruling the world would have been like.

I don't need to, because I don't need to convince myself that the story is true.

originally posted by: daskakik

Right, and they all remember the story just with different names.

Names for the surviving father of the flood:

Hawaiian: Nu-U
Aztec: Nota
Hebrew: Noah

You don't see any resemblance? Even those that don't have the same sounding name, may have given him a new name. The story remains the same though.

"If people are given the opportunity to choose good or evil then there will inevitably be evil."
Says who? Chocolate or strawberry ice cream, you are free to choose, neither is evil.

With free will involved, injustices will occur. Your example of an arbitrary decision is totally irrelevant.

...But now I am reminded that you consistently lead these conversations into absurdism, so I'm gonna save my time.

originally posted by: cooperton
Hawaiian: Nu-U
Aztec: Nota
Hebrew: Noah

According to this the aztec survivor was called Tata. They disobeyed and were turned into dogs and nobody else survived.

Also, don't you think they would have all had at least a similar religion as the Hebrew's since it would have been that god that spared them?

With free will involved, injustices will occur. Your example of an arbitrary decision is totally irrelevant.

...But now I am reminded that you consistently lead these conversations into absurdism, so I'm gonna save my time.

You just can't wrap your mind around an earth were people are not inclined to commit injustices against each other.

Funny thing is that you are ready to imagine an earth ruled by a hybridized race of demons with no problem.

Maybe it is better that you save your time, since you can't really make a logical argument in favor of this story you are convinced is true.

Funniest thing to me about this Biblical deluge is that, it didn't work.

First, God knew (since he is all knowing) he was going to flood the world, then, second, he also knew it wouldn't make a lick of difference. Oh and three, he is also the guy that made Satan the 'Lord of this World.' Good idea, my big guy in the sky.

10/10 deity, at least we got rainbows.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
Funniest thing to me about this Biblical deluge is that, it didn't work.

First, God knew (since he is all knowing) he was going to flood the world, then, second, he also knew it wouldn't make a lick of difference. Oh and three, he is also the guy that made Satan the 'Lord of this World.' Good idea, my big guy in the sky.

10/10 deity, at least we got rainbows.

i thought he flooded the earth to get rid of the Nephilim?

i guess there could have been more people spared.



do you believe in satan?

his best trick is making people believe he doesn't exist.

a reply to: sarahvital

The verses in context cite the Nephilim, but also, "Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.". (Gen 6:5 iirc)

No, I don't believe in Satan. I am an atheist these days.

a reply to: neoholographic

Ready to wrap up our genes and tools and head on to be the next creators of the next world? Let's build the New Jerusalem and move civilisation inside! An Ark of the Ages. The Ark of Arks.

The first Creator God we hear of in the Bible, is the god with the oxymoronic name Elohim. With alternate vowels the given consonants of the name becomes three words in aa genitive construction; El ha-Yamm ==> it has several meanings. «God/Power/Force of Water/Hydrogen/Matter» or the more legendary «Father of Leviathan» orr how about «Hydropower» or a bit farfetched but still within limits «Hydrogen Bomb» After all his first brainchild was «Space-Time and Matter» +++ take a pick. Very intrinsic indeed. Doesn't appear coincidental.

a reply to: NorthOfStuff

That could be you TzarChasm!

What an awesome thing to say to anyone.

a reply to: neoholographic

Just going to start this off with a fact:

There is not enough water on the planet (In oceans, ice, and atmosphere) to flood the entire planet. You can actually steal all of Europa's water and still not have the requisite volume necessary for a Waterworld scenario.

There's not even enough water on the planet to reach the 5300 feet of elevation at the base of the Armenian Highlands.

That said, the great flood narrative could have actually occurred at many times. Hindu have a flood and a boat, the Sumerian have a flood and barge, Zoroastrian have a flood and a boat too. The Akkadians have one called the Atra Hasis.

My problem with all that is Genesis isn't even the first in that area of the world. All four of the mentioned ones predate Genesis.

So clearly it's an enduring story that kept itself relevant.

The scientist in me says, except China, they are all connected to sea level rise events. Possibly ice age related. 400 feet of sea level rise may not seem like much, just that's a lot of inundated land in the Mediterranean and Persian Gulf to remember. Especially if land barriers erode and massive reservoirs drain into the ocean at once, or vice versa. It is enough to be told until finally written down possibly thousands of years later.

* China's culture is built on historic floods on The Yellow River. Their first great leader came to power because of a generational river flood and his leadership in fighting the flood to save land.

My further problem is Christianization of myths. If you really read into many mythologies, they change once Christians shows up.

Like Norse myth only had an afterlife for the most honorable warriors and pillagers. Valhalla was a reward for raping the most essentially. Then Norse mythology changed and everyone got an afterlife.

That's a lot of what happens here.

You can't really trust the Native American ones either. Particularly because they are told. Like the Pacific Northwest didn't have a flood myth (Except the Cascadia earthquake related ones) yet once Missionaries showed up the tales shifted to be more in line.

While many tribes have beaver dams and rafts and flood myths much of it is Christianization. Especially The Southwestern ones. Like the Hopi and Apache. Places the Spanish went have the most distinct parallels. On the other side of the country the closest it gets is Nanaboozoo who retreated to a mountain and had birds help him save drowning animals as he built a raft. But was it really the story? Other tribes, like the Algonquin have a way more christianized narrative where he doesn't build a raft but god sends a giant canoe after he prays.

Go down to Peru and it's obvious theirs are megatjrust earthquake related. Typical of flood myths in Tsunami prone areas.

The point is, stories that were only told can morph and not be reflective of the original version without anyone knowing.

Floods happen everywhere. And when they happen in traditionally dry places it's something you write about.

Noah's Ark is definitely representative of one of the middle East flood myths.

The Atra-Hasis is likely the MAIN influence of the Hebrew one. Which actually differs from the Epic of Gilgamesh and his lost livestock barge. Despite the two being 100 years apart in their origin.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Funniest thing to me about this Biblical deluge is that, it didn't work.

it didn't work because it didn't happen... There would be evidence of this global flood all over the planet, and the only ones that ever happen to find this "evidence" are Christians. That is truly amazing!

without a doubt theres been floods on epic scales.... never a global one though... yet Christians will fabricate whatever they need to in order to push their fable.

The finding of the ark is classic... said rock formation has been thoroghly debunked. And they banned access to the site because the gov of the area doesn't want idiots climbing the mountain and killing themselves in the process

but they still push the idea

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: sarahvital
He stopped it didn't He?

He also allowed it up to that point, didn't he?

do you know why?


it couldn't be so you and i could have this conversation, thousands of years after, rite?

nothing He has done has made anyone think, i guess.

God does not play dice with the universe.. turn turn turn.

anyway,

originally posted by: sarahvital
it couldn't be so you and i could have this conversation, thousands of years after, rite?

So god allowed evil to rule over the earth and let it get so bad that he had to destroy almost everyone so we could have a something to talk about over the interwebz?

That is a bad argument if you are trying to prove he loved those people and was caring for them.