Regarding the LGBT community - is there a way to build a bridge with the Christian community?

Hi ATS,

This is a thorny & divisive issue right from the get-go, and I will understand those who are rigid in their beliefs that the LGBT community can in no way be reconciled to the Christian community (thinking in terms of the global, universal Body of Christ, 'the Church'..)

Let me begin by way of example..

My first church was a community church which was a vibrant, joyful place, where deep fellowship was built up over weeks, months, years of knowing & loving the people around you. Many different households with small groups of church members were established in all sorts of places, from huge country manor houses with 30 people living there full time, with huge numbers passing through the doors each week for various meetings & get-togethers, to the other end of the scale where a handful of members set up an apartment in the city centre, a base for evangelism & reaching out into the community around them, building bridges with the various tribes who dwelt in that city..

Often the members of several households would go down from the country into the city on Friday & Saturday nights, operating a cross between street pastors (some great organisations doing this sort of work full time), advice points for homeless people, evangelism & the creative & joyous expression of worship in a public place, inviting people to have hot dogs, burgers, conversations about the deep stuff, etc. It was a special type of culture - not without its problems, there were several particular sticking points which some members couldn't agree on, or that some people found to be a bit formal & weird. But generally, the church was populated with happy, clappy, thoughtful & engaging folk from all walks of life who lived for Jesus in a big way, some of them having given up a lifetime's work in order to sacrifice for the sake of the community, to work for God in the latter years of their lives.

When we were out & about on these weekend walks about town, as you might expect we would bump into all sorts of people, from all different corners of the world we live in. We would go from shepherding some girls who were too drunk to cope towards the local police presence so they could be guided to their homes safely, to trying to prevent fights from breaking out, to simply sharing a brew & a burger with someone who found our 'atmosphere' to be compelling or curious. We would frequently pray with people who were going through hard times, and sometimes people would confess that they felt a need to draw close to God, but that they knew their lifestyle was way off the charts in terms of what would be considered acceptable in polite circles, etc.

And yes, we met many gay, lesbian & bisexual people (not so many trans back then, twenty years ago), and guess what - we treated them well, we spoke with them about their lives & their worries, their fears for the future, their spiritual outlook, and we befriended many of them to the degree that they would visit the church on a Sunday, or they would come for a meal in one of the community houses, they would drive down to attend one of the 'festival marquee events' which would run over a long bank holiday weekend, as they developed friendships with people from different parts of the community. They were our friends. We didn't presume to judge them, though they knew intuitively that we wouldn't welcome attempts to form relationships with members of the community - some people in the community had lived an experimental lifestyle, or had been conditioned through abuse to be part of a darker underbelly of the gay scene, and they'd broken with that community in many ways, in order to follow what they felt to be their spiritual calling, to live a specific lifestyle marked by holiness & purity, devotion to God & the community of believers.

And a lot of straight people opted for that too - it was known as the 'celibate' path, and it was always respected as a hard calling, a sacrifice for God & for the Kingdom of God, to live without the distraction of romantic relationships, to aim for a style of discipleship that was simple, hardworking, patient & true. It was never forced on anyone, and anyone who was considering celibacy would always have a trial year before they decided if they really wanted to commit to that pathway, in which case they'd often be shuttled into leadership positions, because their entire focus would be on building & supporting the church, at every level. Of course we had many, many leaders who were married, or single while looking for love, there were no hard & fast rules about who would go for which position, it was just sorted out through rational discussion & prayerful reflection. And ultimately, if a person lived as a celibate for five years but then met someone amazing who felt the same way, of course they were allowed to break with that role & get married, it was a flexible thing, not a cult.

Anyway, a lot of my own prejudices were healed by exposure to this tolerant, caring, friendship evangelism with people who weren't living in the same way I'd chosen to live. Often such folk would hang around the church at the bigger events with the friends they made for a couple of years, but would then make a decision to commit their lives to God, to live out the pathway of single-minded discipleship, leaving their old ways behind them. The crux of my position on this is that anyone, regardless of their sexuality, so long as they're respectful & decent, should be allowed to be an active friend of the church, with all members affording them gentle guidance & support as they need it, loving them as Jesus would have loved them, until such a day as they feel called to take a step of faith, and join the community in a more committed way. You can look at it saying that we shouldn't be mixing with such people because they're sinful - but none of them will commit their lives to God if you do that, and by judging them so harshly at the outset, you are potentially robbing God of a gifted & loving servant in the years to come. Who knows what will happen to that person if you DON'T show them the love & acceptance that Christ would show them? Of course, we can't tolerate the activities which accompany the LGBT lifestyle out in the world, but with respect & decency from both sides being evident, then who are we to deny God His servant? What if they feel so rejected & heartbroken that people of faith have rejected him/her despite their intuitive drive to understand their spirituality that they go on to adopt poisonous beliefs, or self-harm, or manipulate/abuse others in spiteful ways as a result?

What I am saying, is that when it comes to the path of faith, we are often called to walk it in the company of people who perhaps wouldn't have been our first choice of compatriot in our former lives before joining the church, and we can't spit in God's face by refusing to walk alongside people who need even more encouragement & support than most others would, if they are to find their footing in the Body of Christ, in the long-term.

I always remember one of the lessons learned from someone who knows, that the perverse & hyper-sexualised, 'glamorous' veneer of the LGBT scene actually masks a very diverse community of people, below the surface, many, many of whom find that perverse, hyper-sexualised & glmorous veneer to be brash, ugly, sickening. The stereotypes, many find hard to 'live up to', and a lot simply want to live a normal sort of life.

So, in summary, when it comes to whether a bridge can exist between the LGBT community, and the universal church, the Body of Christ - it's not even a question, it's a certainty - there MUST be a bridge, because there are so many hurting people in that community, who know nothing of the love of God, or His ability to heal deep emotional trauma in a purely spiritual way, with no input required from anyone other than friendship, prayer, patience & grace. Conversion programs are an abomination in my humble opinion. You cannot repress something which has developed over the course of a lifetime, in the course of a week, a month, or even a year. Healing must come from knowing that God loves you, that He formed you to be His own special possession, that He cares for you in every conceivable way, and that if you allow Him to do so, He will guide you on the adventure of your lifetime figuring out just what amazing things He has planned for you.

And please, don't accuse me of being permissive regarding perversion. I hope I have been quite clear enough about my thoughts on the disgusting nonsense being taught to our children by the slaves of the Satanic agenda for transhumanism & gender fluidity in several other threads dotted around the boards. In this thread I have stated clearly that when engaging in friendship & evangelism with members of the LGBT community, decency & respect must be present on both sides of the situation. Anyone who deliberately abuses his or her position to take advantage of anyone, is a disgrace. Anyone who seeks to undermine & corrupt persons who are attempting to walk a holy path, is a disgrace. Sin is a real thing, and while it is not our place to micro-manage the lifestyle of other human beings, it is only right that certain ground rules for polite & proper interaction are set for all to understand in a place where people are deeply committed to living for God, in a holy & righteous manner, perhaps where some of them have broken away from an aspect of the LGBT scene that was at the darker end of the spectrum. Such people must be protected, and it's best if this sort of conversation happens naturally at the outset when someone from that community is taking an interest in what we do, so they know the boundaries when it comes to the sanctity of the church of God, in whatever denomination this happens to relate to.

It's June, it's (sheesh) 'Pride' month, so I thought perhaps a thread based on that theme would be appropriate. I can't stand the vile displays of depravity in those parades, I hate that there are demons in skin teaching perverse things to our kids - but not everyone in the LGBT community thinks like those lost souls, and so the bridge must exist. I sincerely hope people will weigh my words carefully before responding, because I stand by them, my opinions were formed from experience with a very internally disciplined but loving church, who weren't afraid to reach out & help those who were hurting from a lifetime of sin, shame, abuse, fear & more. Let's behave like Jesus would with the thief on the cross. There is a spiritual impulse in all of us, which, if not entirely deadened by the horrors of this world, will always reach out to Truth, the love of God, and fellowship on the road of discipleship - even celibacy as a way of finding spiritual fulfilment in a fallen world, where so many things are beyond our control, including the effects of our genetics, epigenetics, environment & heritage. It's a complex & broken place, which needs all the understanding & compassion we can muster. It takes strength to support someone who you may not understand or even particularly like very much. If you act accordingly, you will grow as a person, and you will save lives & souls..

I believe in what I'm saying here. It does not diminish my standing in the eyes of God.

I hope it might have sparked a greater consideration in others who haven't previously seen such things from the same perspective.


Cheers, FITO.

The Non-Heterosexual community should just follow advice from the Christian community.

That's the "bridge".

a reply to: carewemust

The thing is, if you just go straight for the jugular & say that to them, they'll pull away immediately. There has to be MUTUAL respect. Maybe steer the conversation towards what they do for a job, or any number of things that have nothing to do with sexuality, before talking about sexuality as if we can just give them a stern talking to & all will be made right. That's patently absurd when it's put like that, so what's the solution? Shoot them all?

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

The thing is, if you just go straight for the jugular & say that to them, they'll pull away immediately. There has to be MUTUAL respect.

Yeah, no.

The bible is pretty clear on this. The condition is set upon man to turn away from sin.

They embrace it and then demand that we be tolerant of it. Especially now that they are exposing their community for the bastion of pedophiles and groomers that they've largely always been.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

I hope it might have sparked a greater consideration in others who haven't previously seen such things from the same perspective.

People often misunderstand me on this issue so I will be very frank and very clear.

I have had many gay people in my life. More than just a few had a sexual affinity for me when I was underage and they made no secret of it. Being a tolerant young liberal I didn't really see it as a threat. I embraced the LGBT community and even wrote threads on ATS defending them.

But as I reflect on what I had been exposed to all of my life, I have to pause and evaluate exactly what I am tolerating and how I remember these things.

The LGBTQ and all the other letters need to evaluate themselves. Why the hell am I being asked to self-reflect on belief that hasn't changed at all when it is the LGBTQ blah blah blah that has morphed over time into this monstrosity of degeneracy and abuse? I am not the one that needs to build them a bridge.

How can you mix oil and water?

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

In the long term there is as much chance of any kind of bridge being built as there was of Nero being kind to Jews and Christians.

They are opposites behaviourly. The Bible, OT and NT instruct us and no amount of spin can change what those WORDS say.

While Christianity still has some influence I believe we should be compassionate and understanding, never judgemental. We can only answer for our own behaviour. We are not to be the police of what others do. Even The Almighty gives free will of behaviour and forgives errors and detours.

I am very alternative. When I was younger I had queer experiences, but I wanted Jesus in my life more than anything and wanted to do the right thing according to what Jesus, Peter and Paul say. I never get it right and that is why I don't judge others who don't get it right in a different way. I understand that Jesus came here to save sinners and that I need saving and am a sinner. That is the necessary humility to accept this if you say you follow Jesus.

Problems will happen when this extreme liberalism gets all the power, which it is on course to do as all the young are influenced by it. They go for them in the classroom you see. They infiltrate their minds early.

I love being a follower of Jesus and His Father more than anything in Creation. He said even respect (love) your enemy. That means not celebrating over Russian young dead soldiers even though I want Ukraine to be able to express itself democratically as its own people clearly chose in a free and fair election.

That is the only bridge I can build. When liberalism does get all its hedonistic way and power with the obvious mass appeal that hedonism has for humans who have no consciousness about sin, without a moral compass it is on course to go insane no doubt. It will end up with another Nero call himself a god with his pet male sex slave killing Christians again, before ultimately turning on the Jews who were the original liberals of the West. What goes around comes around. We make our own angels of destruction.

I would die for Christ if necessary. There is no turning back. I would die in a turn the other cheek style though, not as a violent zealot like Judas was.

Sin is a man-made construct to control people.

You can have morals without the guilt of sin.

So if your telling people homosexuality is a sin, for some, that ain't going to work.

If YOU believe in sin, and believe it IS a sin, they YOU don't do it, and let others do as they wish, or in other words, MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. This applies to ALL CHRISTIANS.

Thank you!

a reply to: projectvxn

I could hold that bridge in my hands, and they would still not walk across it.

This is not about tolerance, anymore. It's about forcing everyone else to walk that bridge.

I will stand my ground, however.

a reply to: MiddleInsite

PREACH! You know, just like the aphabet community minds IT'S own business. Dang Christians should follow that prime example.




For real though, can't the whole COEXIST thing still work without EVERY bridge? When entire philosophies or lifestyles are completely at odds, why force the issue? Live and let live, I say.

a reply to: tjack

Trans time at primary...

live and let live huh... get out of my kids brain with slutty deviant men in drag.

I grew up in a very religious home, Baptist...even minored in theology with thoughts of being a preacher.

There is a saying:

Love the sinner, hate the sin.

I have many friends in the LGBT community. I accept them for who they are. I remember that I do not answer for their life, only mine. We all sin, only i am responsible for me.

But in the end, I am not accepted by them as far as my beliefs go.

So no, no bridge will ever be made...because I am not accepted as me.

a reply to: jerich0

Eww, no, not what I meant. Keep all the adult fetish stuff where it was before they started foisting it on everybody, and enough with building bridges that nobody really wants.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment
Why would the LGBT...XYZ community want to build a bridge to the Christian community? The ideologies are opposed. The bible itself makes no allowances for a lifestyle that is considered abominable to the Christian God.

If the "community" wants to be Christian that bad, they should create their own denomination that ignores that part of the bible like some other denominations do. I would not expect most Christians to be hunky dory with it though.

originally posted by: MiddleInsite


If YOU believe in sin, and believe it IS a sin, they YOU don't do it, and let others do as they wish, or in other words, MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. This applies to ALL CHRISTIANS.

Thank you!

a reply to: projectvxn

This is a two way street. I agree Christians should MYOB and treat others with respect and dignity at all times, but you have to realize that the bridge has two entrances. Right now the bridge only has one entrance and is blocked on the other side by parades of people practically naked openly and publicly behaving in a manner that says "this is what my genitals look like" CELEBRATE THEM, "this is who I sexually desire and have sex with" CELEBRATE MY SEXUAL HABITS - OR ELSE!!!!

Mind your own business and don't force others to know the details of your sex life, is the other side of the bridge.

If everyone behaved decently and with kindness and respect for others this would not be an issue.

If LGBTQ stopped being in your face about who they have sex with and how and who they sexually desire, and kept those things private and to themselves, there would not be this uproar.

It is LGBTQ who are in our faces, forcing us to not only be kind and respectful as we should all be to each other at all times. - but are trying to force everyone to celebrate and jump for joy at their choice of sex partner and method of having sex.

I told this story before and will repeat it:

The best example of how LGBT should behave to get the respect and treatment they desire:
I first met my gay acquaintance when he was a part time worker at my bank. He was wonderful with customers and knew his stuff better than full timers. I had NO IDEA he was gay at that time. I wrote to the bank saying he was so good he should be made full time. We struck up a casual friendship. I asked about his family when he told me they had their home damaged by a hurricane.
He was made full time, not because of me but because he is such an excellent banker and great with customers. I still had no idea he was gay. The manager at the time was awful, with customers and ran through employees like water. I wrote to the company saying my friend should be made manager. He stopped whatever he was doing for a brief chat whenever I came in.
He was promoted to manager, then to manager over three branches of the bank. After that promotion I noticed he had on a new wedding ring. I asked how his wife was dealing with his heavy workload after he said his hours were crazy long. He said "husband", I replied, well then how is your husband dealing with your crazy hours? I congratulated him on his wedding and his newest promotion. We are still friends the same as before.
Even a transexual can do this, dress, act, behave as a normal person of their chosen gender would with no fanfare or display of genitals in locker rooms or restrooms, and no one will know, and no one will care - be their "real" selves as a genuine real person who has dignity and grace and they will have opened the other side of the bridge.

I say he is the perfect example of how LGBT should comport themselves because I did not need to know his sex life anymore than he needed to know mine. His behavior was not flamboyant and in your face, he was himself at all times and genuine. I respect him greatly. I may not endorse his lifestyle but have a deep respect and liking for him as a person.

If he asks my opinion, I'll give it as gently and respectfully as possible, if he doesn't ask, it is none of my business to tell him because I respect him too much to purposely hurt his feelings. My opinion of his sex life doesn't affect how I think of him overall as a person and the respect I show him, and it is none of my business to tell him unless he asks.

The bridge is two ways. If LGBT desire respect they must act respectfully. No need to hide who they are, being their genuine selves (not flamboyant parodies of themselves) will open the bridge to passage.

To get respect, one must give respect.

originally posted by: jerich0
I could hold that bridge in my hands, and they would still not walk across it.

This is not about tolerance, anymore. It's about forcing everyone else to walk that bridge.

I will stand my ground, however.

You are correct, half way.

EVERYONE is trying to force everyone else to walk that bridge and if they don't they appear ready to burn it. BOTH SIDES!

See my previous post.

A great example of bridge burning, is Drag Queens, who are the same as blackface was in the 1930's, insulting and degrading parodies of biological women and over the top in your face, know what my genitals look like. Saying men who over exaggerate the eyes and lips to play biological women, like blackface does in portraying black people; behaving as if biological women are singing and dancing happy to be creatures who are sexually servile and sexually stimulating to men at all times, like blackface does showing black people as happy to serve white people; is extraordinarily disrespectful and degrading to biological women.

It is a horrible example for LGBT to send to represent what LGBT is, in Kindergartens, elementary schools, and preschools around the nation. In my opinion Drag is degrading to the LGBT community as a whole when sent out to represent the LGBT community in forums other than adult clubs and burns the other side of the bridge to the ground.

When one openly disrespects others, as Drag does, they can not expect respect in return. Right now the LGBTQ community is sending out the most disrespectful people behaving in a bigoted manner toward biological women to represent their community. People who openly say, I have a penis, and am representative of the best of biological womanhood, whose only goal in life should be singing, dancing, and happily being sexually stimulating servile to males at all times. Drag queens tacitly say, I am the ambassador and representative of what LGBTQ is. Burning bridges everywhere they go.

Again, if LGBT want respect and kindness, they must give respect and kindness in return. Bridges are supposed to connect two sides. Both sides need to be respectful in their behavior toward the other side.

a reply to: theatreboy

But in the end, I am not accepted by them as far as my beliefs go.

So no, no bridge will ever be made...because I am not accepted as me.

I absolutely understand what you're saying & I actually agree with you - probably more effort is made by Christians to love those in the LGBT community than they would ever extend to us. I know that they are often hardened in their hearts & love the sinful deviance which drives so many of them to these disgusting pride parades where all the 'kink' is laid out bare for even little kids to see, as though it's somehow normal & acceptable. I don't want to be misunderstood - I think all that is vile. What I tried to say in this thread is let's be the bigger person, and be there to support anyone in that community who wants to question their life & perhaps break free from it all. That is the overriding point of what I was attempting to put across - that we should be available to people who we know desperately need Jesus. They push us away, we push them away.. Yes, we make a principled stand, I did elucidate that point in the OP, we are not going to accept any shenanigans - but when I say we should have mutual respect, please understand I'm stating that such that there is a bridge for them to walk across to us, not for us to walk across to them. There are people in that community who know their life is out of control, and they need to see an avenue by which they can appproach us & seek help. It may have been misconstrued, but I was trying to say that this process, of walking that bridge, can take time, to break down old patterns & accept the grace of God, we're talking about people who are frequently very damaged, spiritually, so patience ris almost certainly going to be required.

Please, everyone, understand that I am not excusing sin - I'm talking about us being open to facilitate change in the hearts of people who need Jesus, yet face many perceptual barriers to even begin to understand that, in some cases. And I made no accounting of the perverse, the proud & the mockers - I made that plain in the OP as well. There are a great many who are hardened to the gospel, who are categorically perverse, paedophiles are organised in the gay community, we know that, not all but a larger percentage than one would find in ordinary society. There is no excusing paedophilia in any way shape or form, Jesus said it would be better for a millstone to be tied around their neck & be cast into the sea rather than face judgment for abusing a child.

Most people are "live and let live".
The problem is that you have a small minority of both sides that want to push it to extremes.
I know people who are gay. They are as appalled as I am by the extremists.
I know people who are Christian and the same applies for Christian extremists.

The problem is that one side is being venerated by the Democratic Party and their MSM lapdogs. The same people who are trying to group all Christians with the Christian extremists. When you add the Democratic Party and their lapdogs support for the Muslim religion a few years ago a case can be made for their support for a war on Christianity.