Mass Shooting In Philadelphia On Saturday June 4th , 3 dead 11 wounded

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: opethPA

Outside of that ghost chainsaws, ghost bats or ghost guns are not something I have a vested interest in and neither that nor your declaration of the term being political changes the fact that it was an element reported in the original report.

So I file off the serial # is it a ghost gun or just illegal gun?

80% fire arms are legal and require no serial number as long as it isn’t for sale as you would need a manufacturer license. Modifying the serial numbers on a legally obtained fire arm is against the law. There’s a difference.

a reply to: Ahabstar

Yep. Because law abiding citizens are the (less than) obvious threat to public safety.

C'mon, dude...get with the program.

a reply to: Brotherman

If you make a firearm from scratch for your own purposes and not for retail sale, then you need neither licenses nor serial numbers. If you intend to manufacture for retail (or wholesale to a retail distributor) then you need licenses and a serial numbering scheme for definite identification of individual firearms (traceable/trackable).

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: opethPA

Outside of that ghost chainsaws, ghost bats or ghost guns are not something I have a vested interest in and neither that nor your declaration of the term being political changes the fact that it was an element reported in the original report.

So I file off the serial # is it a ghost gun or just illegal gun?

That isn't really the point of this thread but hey I get it, the fact that law enforcement uses the term ghost gun is more important to you then the actual events that occurred.

You should contact the Department of Justice and ask that they stop using the term ghost gun... www.justice.gov...

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: opethPA


It may not be your intention but certainly there was a specific intention of the source.

"Extended mag"
"Ghost gun or homeade gun"

Those tidbits that lack any definition, accuracy and greater context in a shooting that by definition is NOT a mass shooting, in Philly nonetheless, are intended for a apecific audience.

Again, all I am trying to do is report facts without attaching any bias to it so that means just essentially doing a copy and paste without modifying what is said any.

So what would you prefer an extended mag be called if not what it is?

Ghost gun or Homemade gun =

Ghost guns are DIY firearms made at home, usually from parts or kits bought online, though some parts can be 3-D printed. Ghost guns are not required to have serial numbers, and you do not have to undergo a background check to purchase the parts to make one. Typically, they are relatively quick and easy to build into a functioning firearm, compared to making a gun from scratch, which requires special tools and knowledge.

www.inquirer.com...-655134755


Since it seems their is no real or clear consensus on what a mass shooting is then how can it not be one by definition?

There is a lack of consensus on how to define a mass shooting. Most terms define a minimum of three or four victims of gun violence (not including the shooter) in a short period of time, although an Australian study from 2006 prescribed a minimum of five; and added a requirement that the victims actually died as opposed to being shot and injured but not necessarily killed.

In the United States, the Investigative Assistance for Violent Crimes Act of 2012 defines mass killings as three or more killings in a single incident, however the Act does not define mass shootings. Media outlets such as CNN and some crime violence research groups such as the Gun Violence Archive define mass shootings as involving "four or more shot (injured or killed) in a single incident, at the same general time and location, not including the shooter".[3] Sometimes shootings involving three or more victims occur in non-public situations such as when one member of a family shoots all the other members in the family home. These killings are known as familicides and are not included in mass shooting statistics.

en.wikipedia.org...

Additionally for not being a mass shooting by a definition that does not clearly exist the events of this past Saturday clearly surpass the requirements defined by the CRS which involves 4 or more victims and while this states that the FBI definition is essentially the same since it doesn't include that definition I am not going to compare it against that.

In the United States, there are several different, but common, definitions of mass shootings. The Congressional Research Service defines mass shootings, as multiple, firearm, homicide incidents, involving 4 or more victims at one or more locations close to one another. The FBI definition is essentially the same.Often there is a distinction made between private and public mass shootings (e.g., a school, place of worship, or a business establishment). Mass shootings undertaken by foreign terrorists are not included, no matter how many people die or where the shooting occurs.

crim.sas.upenn.edu...

a reply to: opethPA

Ok, so you are pushing the same agenda, sorry for giving you the benefit of the doubt.

If you dont understand yet how that is, ask yourself a few questions about the source you decided to copy and paste from.

What was the weapon? A handgun with an extended magazine. What brand and or caliber? What made it an extended magazine?

Ok, a ghost gun. As was mentioned, was it a homeade weapon, a 3d printed weapon, a 80% or simply a filed off serial number?

Either they dont know and thus should hold reservations (and buzzwords) until a little research is done OR they do know and want their readers to be swayed and seeded with partisan buzzwords.

Lastly, was any critical thinking applied to using the term mass shooting? Why are the numbers arbitrary and ill defined? Well, because as I told you earlier it allows for furthering and agenda or narrarive with padded statistics.

For aomeone who claims to want to be unbiased and fact based, there sure are quite afew assumptions and faith in an article clearly meant to drive the readers in a certain direction.

originally posted by: Brotherman

80% fire arms are legal and require no serial number as long as it isn’t for sale as you would need a manufacturer license. Modifying the serial numbers on a legally obtained fire arm is against the law. There’s a difference.

I would put that much higher than 80% are legal. My point is whether the so called ghost guns are illegal or not, and using the term ghost gun is a liberal label to incite there is evil as a part of them. They used a ghost gun... As example... everyone run in fear...

originally posted by: opethPA
uses the term ghost gun is more important to you then the actual events that occurred.

You should contact the Department of Justice and ask that they stop using the term ghost gun...

Lets ask the President... never mind...geez

There are levels of discussion here, BTW

"One of guns reported to have been found at the scene was a ghost gun or home manufactured fire arm" Was what my comment was to, who gives a F really... People died, a person pulled the trigger, lets talk about the elephant in the room. It isn't me that will be hype about it. News media will be ghost gun killed...

a reply to: Xtrozero

I didn't say 80% of fire arms. I said an 80% fire arm. I said an 80% fire arm and not a fire arm from scratch for a reason as well. A from scratch fire arm requires highly special machine tools, and a skill set along with all kinds of special know how when it comes to gun drilling and rifling alongside cold fitting etc etc etc when it comes to making an upper and all that.

An 80% firearm is the lower receiver that comes 80% done and you machine it yourself, the lower receiver is generally considered the fire arm.

I don't really want to get into giving an education about that here but just to give you the idea I did not say nor did I mean 80% of firearms....

originally posted by: opethPA

In the United States, there are several different, but common, definitions of mass shootings. The Congressional Research Service defines mass shootings, as multiple, firearm, homicide incidents, involving 4 or more victims at one or more locations close to one another. The FBI definition is essentially the same.Often there is a distinction made between private and public mass shootings (e.g., a school, place of worship, or a business establishment). Mass shootings undertaken by foreign terrorists are not included, no matter how many people die or where the shooting occurs.

So if we run with CNN then there are like 300 mass shooting in the last x years, if we run with 4 or more killed at a school then there has been 13 in the last 55+ years. Pick your poison...

So one of the guns didn't have serial numbers, OK who cares... Does that really change anything here other than to label the gun as the reason for the shooting?

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: opethPA

In the United States, there are several different, but common, definitions of mass shootings. The Congressional Research Service defines mass shootings, as multiple, firearm, homicide incidents, involving 4 or more victims at one or more locations close to one another. The FBI definition is essentially the same.Often there is a distinction made between private and public mass shootings (e.g., a school, place of worship, or a business establishment). Mass shootings undertaken by foreign terrorists are not included, no matter how many people die or where the shooting occurs.

So if we run with CNN then there are like 300 mass shooting in the last x years, if we run with 4 or more killed at a school then there has been 13 in the last 55+ years. Pick your poison...

So one of the guns didn't have serial numbers, OK who cares... Does that really change anything here other than to label the gun as the reason for the shooting?

IDK bro I think all the facts here are a bit lacking
what we know...
2 out of 3 men engaged in a fight which resulted in the first person who drew to die and the person that drew in retaliation to get injured.

We know other people in the crowd opened fire. What they were shooting at??? who the # knows

the one weapon found believed to belong to an 18 year old (which in PA you have to be 21 to own a pistol which would by default make it illegal for this person to possess btw) with what the agency considers an extended magazine

I could go on with the facts... But truthfully IDK it reads like a typical gang shooting being trumped up to stay on top of the trend of the hour.

originally posted by: Brotherman

I said an 80% fire arm and not a fire arm from scratch for a reason as well. A from scratch fire arm requires highly special machine tools, and a skill set along with all kinds of special know how when it comes to gun drilling and rifling alongside cold fitting etc etc etc when it comes to making an upper and all that.

An 80% firearm is the lower receiver that comes 80% done and you machine it yourself, the lower receiver is generally considered the fire arm.

I don't really want to get into giving an education about that here but just to give you the idea I did not say nor did I mean 80% of firearms....

Cool read it wrong.

Yes I understand that an upper has no seral number, just the lower and usually just the lower frame. You could have just said "I didn't say 80% of fire arms. I said an 80% fire arm." but thanks anyhow...lol

The bottom-line is ghost guns are not illegal outside of maybe state local laws if the person making it is legal to own guns.

originally posted by: Brotherman

I could go on with the facts... But truthfully IDK it reads like a typical gang shooting being trumped up to stay on top of the trend of the hour.

Which brings me to a typical weekend in Chicago as example. Not sure why we see nothing ever on that.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Hmm I wonder how you register a homemade cannon? They are considered a black powder gun and I believe are legal for even felons to own as long as they don't weigh more then 50 lbs. How would you feel about those being legally sold to felons for "sporting" activities?

The ghost gun term is another buzz word.

Which brings me to a typical weekend in Chicago as example. Not sure why we see nothing ever on that.

Fo Sho, agreed

originally posted by: Brotherman

Hmm I wonder how you register a homemade cannon? They are considered a black powder gun and I believe are legal for even felons to own as long as they don't weigh more then 50 lbs. How would you feel about those being legally sold to felons for "sporting" activities?

The ghost gun term is another buzz word.

For me whether you are swinging a hammer at someone's head or pulling a trigger both take a human to do it. I really do not care much about the tool used as I tend to think more about the person doing it as the primary reason. With guns are secondary reasons too, I fully understand that point, BUT it is not the primary one.

originally posted by: Brotherman
a reply to: Xtrozero

Hmm I wonder how you register a homemade cannon? They are considered a black powder gun and I believe are legal for even felons to own as long as they don't weigh more then 50 lbs. How would you feel about those being legally sold to felons for "sporting" activities?

The ghost gun term is another buzz word.

Which brings me to a typical weekend in Chicago as example. Not sure why we see nothing ever on that.

Fo Sho, agreed

if you build it your self wouldn't it be called an Ikea gun?

i guess you have to be missing a screw.

sorry.

a reply to: sarahvital

no it would be considered a black powder gun, wouldn't even be considered a muzzle loader. =D

Seems one of the shooters had a permit and was released from any charges due to reasons of self-defense during this shootout.

Hopefully nothing said here offends anyone like the OP did. In the end 3 people died and 11 were injured and that's the part that will ripple onward and outward from that night. I have 0 agenda on anything I post here which is constantly and consistently shown but beyond that , I also don't really care if someone thinks I do. Everyone is allowed their opinion just like I am allowed to repost relevant news articles in a like for like manner.

To add one thing, the only real bias I have on this scenario is that I do not believe you can regulate problems like this out of existence via gun control because I see people as being the problem. Go back to the dawn of mankind and I am sure you would see someone somewhere bashing people with a rock. Some people can be evil , some people can be moved to violence while on their own an object like a gun or a rock or a knife isn't capable of anything.

Also it is not my responsibility to defend why Law Enforcement and the Govt use the term "ghost gun" so when a source puts that in there I am going to copy paste it because I am not trying to give my interpretation of what a source is saying but rather just repost factually.

A mass shooting along one of Philadelphia’s busiest corridors on Saturday left three dead, 11 wounded, and a city reeling as officials piece together how the incident unfolded.

The shooting along South Street claimed more victims than any single episode of gun violence in Philadelphia in the last seven years, and comes amid unrelenting deadly mass shootings across the nation in recent weeks, from a supermarket in Buffalo, New York, to an elementary school in Uvalde, Texas.

What happened on South Street?
The chaotic scene on South Street appeared to begin with a violent disagreement between three men around 11:30 p.m. Saturday before a volley of gunshots hit bystanders, prosecutors said. Video shows that it started as a fistfight, until one of the men drew a handgun.

Police say Gregory “Japan” Jackson, 34, who was one of the three people killed, fired the first shot, striking another man who fired back, killing Jackson. At least two other people began firing guns into the crowds during the mayhem, authorities said, including an 18-year-old who was wounded when a responding returned fire.

The victims
In addition to Jackson, two other people were killed in the shooting on Saturday: Kristopher Minners, 22, and Alexis Quinn, 24. Eleven others were wounded, ranging from 17 to 69 years old.

www.inquirer.com...



This specific link takes you to a blog style update approach being taken by Philly.com for the most recent events on this shooting: www.inquirer.com...