Jesse Marcel on What Really Happened at Roswell

Who claimed the unbreakable metal is what the craft was made of?

Coulda been metal that was protecting something

Who even claimed there was a craft?

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: Encia22

Yep it's always good to use your imagination like that but if you watch the rest of the video, which comes from an episode of "In Search Of" there is mention of finding an old FBI document detailing finding "an experimental kite".

The specific place is linked to here

Then there are news reports from the Roswell Daily Record of July 8th 1947 confirming Mac Brazel (the rancher) described the 'object' made of "rubber strips, tinfoil, a rather tough paper and sticks".

Or a day later report from Waco which also mentions "remnants of a kite and balloon".

According to reports, Brazel was intimidated and made to change his story, since this was a few days after the 'event', that is a possible explanation.

a reply to: Ophiuchus1


Unsolved Mysteries claimed there was a storm on July 2nd 1947 in this episode : Link to exact time

It's 9 min 22 secs or so in. The whole video (which is quite fun as it's a UFO special) is copied below.



Tutiempo.net records historical weather conditions. In June 1947there were thunderstorms over Roswell on the 8th,15th,18th,19th,20th and 25th June.

But in early July 1947 ,before Brazel reported his find in Roswell, there were no thunderstorms recorded.

The USG lies so much I don’t blame folks for not believing anything they say.
But after researching it somewhat, in this case I accept their story of a Project Mogul balloon, even after all the lies they told up to the admission of that. Though, the explanation about the test dummies is hard to swallow.

They claim Project Mogul was classified so they couldn’t admit it at the time.

In 1946, Project Mogul was given a top-secret classification with the highest priority. Based at the Air Force Watson Laboratories in Red Bank, N.J., the project hired many prominent scientists and academic institutions to develop the gear. Dr. Ewing and Columbia University, where he had moved, were involved in developing low-frequency sensors. Dr. Athelstan F. Spilhaus, a prominent meteorologist at New York University, was in charge of developing high-altitude balloons that would stay at a constant height. Woods Hole helped interpret test results

www.nytimes.com...

Roswell is always an interesting topic and there’s some definite mystery behind it. And I guess always will be.
What interests me about Roswell the most was how it got reinvented later.

And remember Roswell has a connection to nuclear bombs, and ultimately I think there’s indirect evidence and maybe some direct evidence all this alien ufo stuff has something to do with nuclear technology.

www.history.com...

Thx MM….👍🏼


Moving forward…..

I’m with the Mogul reason………in looking at the long A$$ balloon train of parts and pieces, similar to what’s shown below…..I could see the balloons themselves failing to stay aloft…..and crashing, and being pushed by winds dragging the train of parts and pieces behind the balloons along those mostly flat plains …….as those parts and pieces are being torn off the train and strewn in a wide spread , hitting rocks and bushes and other things of the natural topography along the way ……even up to the 1 mile distance it was said that a “craft” then rested.

……” Fig. 3. An illustration of a Project Mogul balloon train similar to one found on a ranch 75 miles northwest of Roswell, N.M. in June 1947, which contains all of the “strange” materials described as part of a “flying disc.” Initial confusion at Roswell AAF and delayed identification of this equipment was the first in a series of unrelated events now known as the “Roswell Incident.”

TRAIN FOR CLUSTER FLIGHT NO. 2
To Be Flown at Bethlehem, Pennsylvania”…….




👽🛸🍺

a reply to: SecretKnowledge

My contribution, from an old UFO documentary that I just viewed last night on a 2001 VHS videotape. Very appropriate for this thread.

originally posted by: Ophiuchus1
A book I’m presently perusing……

Interesting…..I don’t yet have an opinion, however there is a nugget of dialogue about something not Roswell related….that keeps me in pseudo awe…..and needs clarification by the folks here on ATS. It requires a separate thread at some point.

Anyway here’s the book…..covers and inside page.

Published 2007

Has anyone read it yet? If so, was there something Marcel say’s to Linda non Roswell but odd the way he phrases it. If you’ve read it you may have picked up on it. Otherwise I’ll wait to start a thread later on.
snip
👽🛸🍸🤓

My unrequested opinion: You should consider another thread a waste of your time and bandwidth. It's already been done and it's a superior book and considered "reference" material by many. The book is: "Roswell: Inconvenient Facts and the Will to Believe" ver –
by Karl T. Pflock (Author), Jerry Pournelle (Author) - June 1, 2001

There are many similar reviews at Amazon and I selected one to exemplify the agreement most post. Your thread would be better served on this book instead of one with lukewarm reviews.

John McIntyre
Don't Read This If You Want To Keep Believing
Reviewed in the United States on August 3, 2009

I've done a great deal of research about the Roswell incident over the years, and had made up my mind definitively that a UFO had indeed crashed at Roswell, and the government had covered it up. This book completely changed my mind, and I think an individual would have an impossible task to disprove Pflock's conclusions.

What this book uncovers is the entire Roswell UFO meme is really based on a few individual "witnesses" who have absolutely zero credibility that have contradicted, exaggerated, and flat out lied about so many aspects of their testimony regarding Roswell. It's also a devastating critique on the select few individuals in the UFO community that are directly responsible for peddling this story (mainly Donald Schmidt)

The other important part of this book is that it shows what project Mogul was actually much more complex than a simple weather balloon. When people think "weather balloon" the think of a simple 5 foot balloon (I know I did) Project Mogul's entire array was actually about the size of a skyscraper with all sorts of cutting edge testing equipment. It also had the same level of "top secret" authority that the Manhattan project had.

This book doesn't disprove UFO's, and Pflock is actually a big believer in the UFO phenomenon. What this book does do is disprove the UFO crash story surrounding Roswell. In many ways, if you were a believer, you will come away disappointed, but I'm more angry at the UFO community at large for not properly vetting this story. Too many people want to believe the fiction, and they are completely blind to the facts of what actually happened. The UFO community needs more objective people like Pflock if we ever want to find the truth.

a reply to: Ophiuchus1

One question is why did the Roswell command let that first message about a crashed UFo get out?

I read the good by Karl Pflock, and he gave a reason but I don't remember it. I have to get the book from the library again and check it out.

originally posted by: Ectoplasm8

originally posted by: SecretKnowledge

originally posted by: mirageman
Unbreakable metal? Which was somehow in pieces and strewn across the Foster Ranch.

He never once mentions recovering any alien bodies either. And he never did.

Who claimed the unbreakable metal is what the craft was made of?

Coulda been metal that was protecting something

"There was so much of it, it was scattered everywhere"... "it was in such small fragments"... "you couldn't bend it or dent it"
Paraphrasing Jesse Marcel.

Whatever came down crashed, it didn't land intact. It was in small pieces.

"Whatever" came down did not crash. It was a l-o-o-o-n-g balloon train with all kinds of instruments attached. It didn't come down in one piece 'cause the balloon was deflating and dragging the train on the ground a long distance and pieces were coming off. Thats why the fragments were small. And the "you couldn't bend it or dent it" is just bs. Read the original account.

Roswell is so controversial over the pro crashers and aliens versus the anti-crashers that if the aliens came down and denied they crashed at Roswell, the pro crashers would never believe them, and instead of being excited over FINALLY getting proof of aliens and ufos and a word form them would likely go off in a huff never again wanting to hear anything about ufos and aliens again, right when the era of the alien comes upon us!

originally posted by: Ophiuchus1
Is there any witness(s) ever mentioning that there was a rain storm the day the crash was heard ..
before Brazel shows up at the site days later.

Info links would be nice for a “rain storm” mentioned specifically.

👽🛸🍺

An old couple sitting on their porch mention the stormy weather. But so what? It isn't known why the Mogul balloon came down. And the techs that released the balloon must have been briefed on weather conditions. Perhaps the balloon developed a leak or, if the oncoming storm affected it possibly a lightning bolt was the cause. No UFO, no crash, no alien bodies. Just Mother Nature.

originally posted by: mirageman

Who claimed the unbreakable metal is what the craft was made of?

Coulda been metal that was protecting something

Who even claimed there was a craft?

I won't name them but it was all of the authors.

a reply to: idusmartias

The mystery of my future thread has everything to do with Marcel…..but nothing to do with Roswell…..if I post it at all 😉

👽🛸🍺

originally posted by: peaceinoutz
a reply to: Ophiuchus1

One question is why did the Roswell command let that first message about a crashed UFo get out?

I have to give you the Ol Polish salute on that one.

I’d have to have a time craft from this present to return to our past to find out….

👽🛸🥃

a reply to: idusmartias

I was satisfied with MM’s input since it ruled out any storm bringing down the balloon train….which is what I elude to by not mentioning it in my post which shows a loooooong A$$ balloon train of stuff.

👽🛸🍺

originally posted by: Ophiuchus1

originally posted by: peaceinoutz
a reply to: Ophiuchus1

One question is why did the Roswell command let that first message about a crashed UFo get out?

I have to give you the Ol Polish salute on that one.

I’d have to have a time craft from this present to return to our past to find out….

👽🛸🥃

What would you rather have, a lie to keep the Russians confused or tell them the truth that one of our Mogul project balloons that was spying on them failed? It's no secret, now, that due to the temper of the time Russia was not our friend and they were engaged in dangerous secret weapons projects. We had nothing better to spy on their activities than Mogul.

a reply to: idusmartias

Much agreed there…. 🍻

👽🛸🥃

a reply to: vlawde

According to reports, Brazel was intimidated and made to change his story, since this was a few days after the 'event', that is a possible explanation.

What reports? From the Pied Pipers of ufology in the 1980s?

The original Roswell Daily Chronicle report from July 9, 1947 confirms....

...Wilcox got in touch with the Roswell Army Air Field and Maj. Jesse A. Marcel and a man in plain clothes accompanied him home, where they picked up the rest of the pieces of the "disk" and went to his home to try to reconstruct it.

According to Brazel they simply could not reconstruct it at all. They tried to make a kite out of it, but could not do that and could not find any way to put it back together so that it would fit.

Then Major Marcel brought it to Roswell and that was the last he heard of it until the story broke that he had found a flying disk....

When the debris was gathered up the tinfoil, paper, tape, and sticks made a bundle about three feet long and 7 or 8 inches thick, while the rubber made a bundle about 18 or 20 inches long and about 8 inches thick. In all, he estimated, the entire lot would have weighed maybe five pounds.

There was no sign of any metal in the area which might have been used for an engine and no sign of any propellers of any kind, although at least one paper fin had been glued onto some of the tinfoil.

There were no words to be found anywhere on the instrument, although there were letters on some of the parts. Considerable scotch tape and some tape with flowers printed upon it had been used in the construction.

No strings or wire were to be found but there were some eyelets in the paper to indicate that some sort of attachment may have been used.

Brazel said that he had previously found two weather balloons on the ranch, but that what he found this time did not in any way resemble either of these.....

So if Brazel was intimidated, then when was he intimidated. Because the news reports are confirming that he had already claimed the debris did not resemble a weather balloon. Not only that he tried to re-assemble what he believed to be some form of kite. Made from scotch tape, paper with eyelets and a paper fin glued to tinfoil???

Mac Brazel died long before the Roswell story was revived. Back in July 1947 the term flying saucer of flying disk had not yet been associated with alien spacecraft. In fact, the term had only been coined in late June after Kenneth Arnold was misquoted.

The question is why was Roswell 'rebunked' in the late 1970s?

I've discussed this case ad nauseam in my thread:
HERE
https:///forum/thread1177739/pg1

Charles Moore, Moguls balloon flight engineer, said in his affidavit:
"I can think of no other explanation for Roswell than one of early June service flight balloons"

That is what crashed. Not a full Mogul array. An in between service flight. I think I throughly laid that out in my thread.