Why didn't China join the PAK-FA/T-50 project?

Originally posted by WestPoint23
I know they are catching up and need to base their designs on proven ones but I just hope they don't always copy as it would not say much for their military.

See, I don't think, in this case at least, it is really copying. If a fighter is going to have a stealth shape, still be able to fly fast AND have good agility, then clearly all these things are going to force you to design it to look a certain way.

In this case I don't really think the engineers have much of a choice.

Yeah I guess to some aspect the fighter shape has to be a certain way to have all the features you mentioned, but I look at the Russian jets and they don't seem to be looking that much like the F/A-22.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
but I look at the Russian jets and they don't seem to be looking that much like the F/A-22.

How about this


The Su-27 was also somewhat of an imitation of the F-15. It was built to counter the F-15 and thus took a similar shape

[edit on 3-4-2005 by Taishyou]

Or this!!!
img143.exs.cx...

[edit on 3-4-2005 by Taishyou]

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Yeah I guess to some aspect the fighter shape has to be a certain way to have all the features you mentioned, but I look at the Russian jets and they don't seem to be looking that much like the F/A-22.

The new Pak-fa (or is it the T-50?) looks almost exactly like the Raptor, save for the two cones that extend beyond the engine.

Originally posted by Taishyou
Or this!!!
img143.exs.cx...

[edit on 3-4-2005 by Taishyou]

Yup - thats what I was thinking of

Originally posted by Taishyou


The Su-27 was also somewhat of an imitation of the F-15. It was built to counter the F-15 and thus took a similar shape

[edit on 3-4-2005 by Taishyou]

I've heard that the F-15 was an imitation of the MIG 25..

Su27s were mainly built to escort strategic bombers for air raids on north sea oil assets..

as posted by Daedalus3
I've heard that the F-15 was an imitation of the MIG 25..

F-15 an imitation? A copy?
Nope.

It was inspired and conceived as a counter to the MiG-25, and thats all.
Would that be like saying that the MiG-25 was a "copy" or "imitation" of the A-5 Vigilante?




seekerof

[edit on 3-4-2005 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by Seekerof

as posted by Daedalus3
I've heard that the F-15 was an imitation of the MIG 25..

F-15 an imitation? A copy?
Nope.

It was inspired and conceived as a counter to the MiG-25, and thats all.
Would that be like saying that the MiG-25 was a "copy" or "imitation" of the A-5 Vigilante?

seekerof

[edit on 3-4-2005 by Seekerof]

Yeah yea.. counter tahts what I meant..
It was just in response to the statement that the Su-27 was a counter to the f-15..

India don't include at project Pak-fa , were you get this thig?
I don't have nothing information except that Russia have suggested to take part in the project of creation of a fighter 30-35 ton ,( it was at India A. Show). But India say that they make self project in middle weight and while don't intrested at havy fighter .
That all .

[edit on 8-4-2005 by Fenix F 308]

I'am pretty sure i've read that India is putting tons of money into the Pak-fa project with Russia. India is currently developing the MCA but i think that's still at the planning stage.

china's working on the j-xx. we can't always be copying the russians can we?

China's poor IPR protection record coupled with a history of extensive plagiarism of Russian weaponry and associated technology followed by unauthorized sale to nations Moscow is not comfortable with is perhaps the more likely reason for its non-inclusion.

[edit on 14/7/08 by Stealth Spy]

Nice to see you here after some time SS.

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
China's poor IPR protection record coupled with a history of extensive plagiarism of Russian weaponry and associated technology followed by unauthorized sale to nations Moscow is not comfortable with is perhaps the more likely reason for its non-inclusion.

Or most likely Russia found a cash cow in India to fund this "joint" venture which turns out to be a Russian project with Indian funds to which the Indians can then point out to as "50/50"...."partners". *cough* Brahmos *cough* .


Why would Russia be willing to "go all the way" with India considering their plagiarism of Russian/French/German technology and designs in their own "Indigenous" products which have yet to enter service after a extensively prolonged development cycle?. If Russia is completely open to India thievery of technology than I dont how your argument stands up.

Your effort to post derogatory remarks in a 3+ year old thread is pathetic. Since all those bogus websites you used as evidence had their URL addresses revoked you seemed to have lost any ability to post your bogus claims any longer. Google no longer coming up with J-10+copy+fake+stolen aynmore?




Tsk...tsk








[edit on 18-7-2008 by chinawhite]

and welcome back chinawhite..

hmm.. there is no plagiarism in international component parts in Indian projects; because the inputs are completely legal and are carried out with the knowledge and consent of the participating companies.
In contrast, one must admit that there have been issues over unauthorized plagiarism of various components in the Chinese market both in the civilian and military sectors.

As for Indians being cash cows in the PAK-FA.. its not untrue, but one must consider the fact that they had options of participating in the JSF program as well. They did hesitatingly take part in the PAK-FA (I believe they would have preferred the MiG-2000i model) but it seemed to be the best option in getting immediate returns. The Indian technical input will come into play with the two seater models that require fuselage redesign, avionics, and material composites. The MCA project is not scuttled either IIRC.

[edit on 18-7-2008 by Daedalus3]

The couple of babies came back now, I have sth to watch again

Let's burn a fire.

China didn't join PAKFA because their strategy are different. India want to become a powerful air force via buy, Chinese want to steal sth from others.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Maybe its just me but don't most of those pictures look similar to the Raptor.

Its just you.

The only one there (of 5 or 6 drawings/pics) that looks anything like the F-22 is:




All the rest have fundamental differences in basic configuration of the lifting wings.

indiatoday.digitaltoday.in...


"Designs for the PAK-FA have already been frozen by the Sukhoi design bureau, which means that Indian aircraft engineers have already missed out on the critical knowledge curve of aircraft design. Also, the unequal status of the Indian and Russian aviation industries means India will be the junior partner contributing very little except finance. "So if we have missed out on the design phase, we have to analyse the cost-benefits of acquiring only super cruise and stealth technology for $ 10 billion," asks Air Vice Marshal Kak."

Originally posted by rapier28

Originally posted by Daedalus3
I would seriously doubt India and china working on any project, forget military projects..

Yeah, but have you heard those reports that China and India had a secret UFO lab under the disputed boundary areas?

It was pretty funny.

I thought the MCA is not a Air-superiority fighter, thats why India went for the PAK-FA while J-XX is designed as a Air-superiority fighter?

The PAK-FA needs huge amounts of money, any details on how much India is providing for the project?

well...no. But the indians are making their own version of the pak-fa while the russians are making their advanced version. its supposedly the russian pak-fa that will have supreme stealth capabilties and the indians will get the lower side of the creation.