How I know God exists by dividing existence into permanent existence and transient existence.

a reply to: Peeple

No. Laws existed before we did and we only discovered them after the fact. That's what the intelligence that God gave us does. The universe, sun, planets, rocks, matter, and energy do not have intelligence that processes information and tells them what laws they are confined to or how to interact in order to keep the universe from blowing itself up.

a reply to: Deetermined

No the laws didn't exist before humans did. The interactions which we observed to get those laws did.

The universe, sun, planets, rocks, matter, and energy do not have intelligence that processes information

I never said that. You keep saying that as if I did but I didn't.

a reply to: Pachomius

"Should we all concur that there has always been existence, and it is never ever going to become extinct, and it never had a beginning, so it is permanent as opposite to transient.

This permanent existence is the source of all transient existences."

Yes, God has always been in existence. The Bible tells us that only God has no beginning or end. The rest of us and everything else created had a beginning. It is only God who can decide, allow, and direct his creation to live on with no ending, even though it had a beginning.

In your reasoning I would call God continuity and everything else events.

a reply to: Pachomius

a reply to: Pachomius

You obviously did not read my response

No. I would not concur

To a being that lives for only a,day, our lifetimes would seem infinite

To fish in a bowl, we are but Gods

What you refer to as "transient"' is a misunderstanding of the fluid nature of perspective

Nothing is infinite, absolute or limitless. Because if it were, it would not exist. Everything needs boundaries to exist "within"

You can only perceive locally to relative spectrum

And just because it "appears" endless above, does not mean it is. And to say it is, would be as naive as thinking the oceans endless, because you've never crossed the sea

The jungle looks like endless trees, until you are flying above them

And what struggles to survive on the jungle floor needs not know of the plane flying above its head

Things only "appear" the way you are saying, because of where you sit within the perceivable spectrum

It is the fluid nature of reality. We are a bridge between a closed centre within, and an open expanse without

If there were no limits to it, WE would not exist

If the world didn't begin and end. It would not be here

So no, it will not "always be here"

It is because I say it is.

Got it

a reply to: Pachomius

a reply to: Peeple

No the laws didn't exist before humans did. The interactions which we observed to get those laws did.

God created the heavens, earth, and universe before he created man. The laws in which the universe operates were set into place before he set us on this earth. The only thing you are really arguing here is that it wasn't given a name before we called it "law" through language. That doesn't mean it didn't exist before we were capable of discovering it, observing it, or giving it a name.

Once again, in case it wasn't clear enough the first time, the laws and restrictions of the universe were in existence before we came along to discover them and give them a name.

a reply to: Compendium

If the world didn't begin and end. It would not be here

So no, it will not "always be here"

Pachomius never said that the "world" was the one thing with a permanent existence. He said it was God. God doesn't need a beginning and end to exist, even though a physical creation does. However, God did create a spiritual aspect to us humans that can live on THROUGH Him.

a reply to: Deetermined

God didn't create anything. The universe existed quite some time before anything remotely alluding to an intelligence that could be called God came to be.
And again those laws aren't laws, there are places in this universe where the circumstances are different and those laws don't apply anymore. They just work from our Earth point of view.
Because they're human made and not universal.

Deetermined

Yes they did

originally posted by: Pachomius
Thanks everyone for all your erudite responses in my thread.

Should we all concur that there has always been existence, and it is never ever going to become extinct, and it never had a beginning, so it is permanent as opposite to transient.

This permanent existence is the source of all transient existences.

a reply to: Peeple

God didn't create anything. The universe existed quite some time before anything remotely alluding to an intelligence that could be called God came to be.

Just because we can't see the invisible God doesn't mean He doesn't exist. The universe doesn't operate on it's own accord because it doesn't have any intelligence. You claim to understand this, yet you argue against it at the same time.

And again those laws aren't laws, there are places in this universe where the circumstances are different and those laws don't apply anymore. They just work from our Earth point of view.

Laws and restrictions are different everywhere we go. That doesn't mean they didn't exist before we did. There's a reason we have a sun and there's a reason that all of the planets revolve around it. Everything happens for a reason, even if we don't understand it, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen or that it happens for no reason. To say that it does just because it does is a lame argument. There is intelligence behind the circumstances that makes this happen.

Because they're human made and not universal.

When did WE create the FORMULA for the laws of physics and nature to run by? We didn't. Just because we're able to observe and discover things that happen in nature doesn't mean we created them to happen that way.

originally posted by: Compendium

Deetermined

Yes they did

Read that again. Where is the word "world" or "humans" mentioned? It's not.

They only state that there has always been existence and He called this existence "God" in their original post. We don't need a world or humans to have a God that has always existed.

Apparently, the word "existence" to you only means the one we live in. It's not the only existence. There's a whole spiritual realm of existence that operates outside of our physical world and life.

The "world", is the sum of the realms

There is no difference been the effigian and non-effigian realms (Ephesians)

It is actually you who sees them as separate. They do not "operate outside"

We are para-dimensional entities. They, and we, exist in phase

"Spiritual" is just a word used by those who do not recognise or understand the phase

I went through self-annihilation rites. "Existential reality" is something I understand well

(Journal) Compendium - Addendum 34:1-34:12

34:1
It took me a while to realise that all that I have become, is all of that which I used to think lesser. That I lost something while I was looking for something else

34:2
Every time I opened myself to something, it opened me to that something. Like watering a plant I know is poisonous, to know why it seeks to kill

34:3
Not to know the pain it brings, but rather the explicitness of its expression. Like opening a wound which may not heal, to see where mind and body meet

34:4
We are slaves to our own limitations, whether they be met by expectation or regard. It is life meeting expectation through consideration. It is stasis but also stative

34:5
You open passages which should not be entered, if no reason was given not to. Rules are the definition of their own necessity, or they need not be met

34:6
Their application cannot be in “want” lest it be submission to such

34:7
“Do what I say, not what I do” cannot be said, if I, or you, are capable of doing as is done. All who would restrict in such a way, should be contended as a matter of duty, if not of course

34:8
Binding of the mind can cut just as deep as those of the wrists, though it is our choice if we bleed in such a way. We allow doors to remain closed, if none choose to try open them

34:9
Holding yourself to the wrath of pain, makes you both more and less than its measure

34:10
A boundary that isn’t sought and challenged is non-existent, and a boundary which forces itself unjustly can never be kept

34:11
A boundary which shows no respect, will never receive it, and a boundary for preventing harm, cannot then be allowed to cause it

34:12
What is one person’s wine is another’s poison, and the measure of a victim lies within perspective

And when I died during this, I found no "God"

I met entities calling themselves "El" and "Sophia". But they were no more "God" than I am

Sophia cried and promised she would never let me die this way

But even if they were my creators, and the creators of this world (which everything seems to suggest they are) they are still no "Gods"

I call them as they act. They are a pain, I call them c#nts. They are nice, I call them friends

My mother died several times when she was only 4 years old, and she told me that she saw a woman in a white dress standing on a snake

I was told this woman told her she needed her to go back. And she was brought back

I do not believe that was any God, or Mary

But, I know for a fact there is something "operating outside of this world" as you would say

I believe that same "something" likely created this world. I am constantly shown things that would be impossible for them to do, or know, if they didn't have some part in this worlds creation

In the nearly 10 years since I died and something "brought me back", it/they have been a constant pain in my arse. Literally

I have what you would probably call "prophets" telling me very exact answers to questions, days, months, or even years before they happen

They will tell me something randomly, that makes no sense at the time. But days later, something happens, in which the thing they told me is the EXACT answer

It is quite amazing. But again, they are no "Gods"

They tell me exactly who is going to win the Rugby League and give me exact margins in the score. Up to weeks before the match

Unless I try betting on it, or telling someone. If I do that, it doesn't happen, or they change something

So basically, they just show off 😄

I'm told, they actually do it to try teach me the responsibility of being able to know such things. What I can and can't do with knowing such things ... But mostly, it just annoys me

What is above them, if such a thing exists? Is also no "God". It is just another level of existential reality

I know the "spiritual" to a level that most never will

But they are no Gods

To assume they are, is not only short-sighted, it is potentially sacrilegious to whatever did create us, if it were not them

Or what created them, if indeed they did create this world, all the realms and everyone in it

Who is your Gods, God?

You do not know

That is why it is crazy to adopt such absolutes. Because you cannot know, even if you believe you do

I do believe this "something" loves us and created us

But it is no God

And "existence" sure as hell isn't God. There is plenty of life happily existing without "God"

At least not in the sense that any Church promotes

That's why there needs to be an important distinction between things such as "existence", "creation" and "God"

Because creation and existence are inherent to life

God is a possessive concept of man. You do not need a concept of God, to exist, or understand creation

As I stated in the thread I linked in my first post

... one who is God in the greater sense of the word

A true God, not the infliction of means upon the willing. The assessment of ones worth, by the worthy incompletion of their self in inclusion to a greater will

Basically, "God" needs creation. But creation does not need "God"

To think you understand creation through "God", is to assume to see beyond that which sees. Which is impossible

If there is a God behind creation? The only way to ever know them is through the world around you

Here is my (Pachomius) original post:

By permanent existence I mean an existence that cannot ever become extinct i.e. not exist anymore, there is only one example of permanent existence, namely, God.

By transient existence I mean an existence that has a beginning and an ending, for example, you and I, we have a beginning with our conception in our mother's womb, and an ending at our death.

How does transient existence lead to the existence of God?

Simple: Because transient existence inevitably implicates the existence of God, the permanent and self-existent agent.

Wherefore, my definition of God is the following: God is the creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.

Hi everyone here, this is very awkward, where do I find instructions on for example, how to return from preview back to edit mode, there must be in ATS all the instructions together on to write a post, how to preview it, how to return back to edit mode, etc. etc. etc.

a reply to: Compendium

Basically, "God" needs creation. But creation does not need "God"

That is not true, If God sneezed, we'd all drop dead that very instant! Adam made in Gods image is our spiritual nature that is our I AM. The pure seat of consciousness that science presumes is derived from consciousness. Is the pure awareness of the unmanifested itself. That eye of awareness in you, in me and everyone, are many, yet from the one vine.

All things manifested (eve) are in consciousness. No man (aka consciousness) can see God and live. So consciousness must be parked at the gate to enter that void. The consciousness in each sefirah of Sefirot cleansed (negated) to allow one to enter the Keter (aka Father). Walking the desert to fight ones own demons.

We all exist in the imaginations of consciousness. The trick is, to awaken from those imaginations.

a reply to: Compendium

This is why I believe in and follow the Bible. It speaks of all the things you're trying to figure out.

When I speak of the "spiritual realm", I'm speaking not only of the ONE and only GOD, but his spiritual creations such as the angels as well. The angels that God also created have free will just like we do. They can either choose to follow the will of God or rebel. The Bible tells us that a third of God's angelic creatures will choose to rebel and lead humans astray along with them. These are obviously the ones who are speaking to you. You probably opened the door for them to harass you through the "self-annihilation rites" that you practiced. The Bible warns us about trying to communicate with such spirits. They tell half truths to suck you in, but they are very deceiving.

The way to know God is through prayer, scripture, and obedience. It's a personal relationship. The only way to understand it is to nurture it and experience it. No world needed, although our participation in the world proves and reinforces what scriptures tell us about the world and the people in it. We need God as our Savior to save us from ourselves and the deceiving spirits around us.

originally posted by: Pachomius

Hi everyone here, this is very awkward, where do I find instructions on for example, how to return from preview back to edit mode, there must be in ATS all the instructions together on to write a post, how to preview it, how to return back to edit mode, etc. etc. etc.

I didn't realize there was a "Preview" mode. I thought you had to "Post" it in order to preview it and only go back to "Edit" if you want to make changes to it. I could be wrong since I don't have a tendency to start discussions or write extremely lengthy replies. I do know that after you've made a "Post" that you only have 4 hours or so to make edits to it before it won't allow you to edit it any longer.

a reply to: Deetermined

Do you see when you are writing that below there is a reply box and to the right without a box the word preview?

a reply to: Pachomius

Thanks for pointing that out! I've never used it, but I'll try it now and see if I see what you see.

As far as I can tell, the "Preview" button only shows the exact same thing you're typing in the comment box, so that's probably why I've never used it. It appears to me that once you close the Preview box by clicking on the "x" in the upper right hand corner of the screen, it brings you right back here to this screen to continue typing and editing.

Edit to Add: I should clarify that you should click on the "x" at the top right hand corner of the "Preview" box, not the entire screen.