Supreme Court’s Roe ruling would trample the religious freedom of every Jewish American

Perhaps no idea is more central in classical Jewish legal texts thinking about abortion than that of the “Rodef” or “the pursuer.” Rodef is a legal category in Judaism for someone or something that is about to kill another human being. Jewish law obligates us to stop a Rodef at any cost — up to and including taking the life of an aggressor. A pregnancy that endangers life is considered a Rodef, and thus it must be terminated.

This is what rabbis mean when we say that “access to abortion is a religious requirement for Jews.” Because there are situations where Judaism doesn’t just allow abortion. In fact, tradition requires abortion when the life of the pregnant person is threatened.

Source

The battle over abortion rights is often framed as the religious vs the secular. However that belief seems to primarily stem from the fact that our country has been primarily influenced by Christian ideology with little regard to other religions.

Even within the Abrahamic religions, the belief that abortion is a sin is not shared. Throughout Jewish religious texts a clear picture is painted that, according to the Jews, life does not start until the first breath, when the soul enters the body. It is believed that for the first 40 days of the pregnancy, the fetus is no different than water. After that, until the birth, the fetus is considered a part of the woman. To go along with these beliefs, the Old Testament states that the fetus is property, not a person.

Jewish law states that anything that can be done to protect a person's health must be done. As the fetus is not considered a person, the life of the mother takes precedence and as a result there are instances where abortion is required by Jewish law.

For instance, the Mishanah states:

If a woman is in hard travail, one cuts up the offspring in her womb and brings it forth member by member, because her life comes before the life of her foetus. But if the greater part has proceeded forth, one may not set aside one person for the sake of saving another.

With the overturning of Roe v. Wade seemingly guaranteed, we have a number of states poised to pass new legislation that would limit access to abortions. Some of these laws are particularly draconian and will ban all abortions regardless of circumstances. However, such laws would be violating the religious beliefs, and by extension the 1st Amendment rights, of any Jewish person residing in those states.

Currently, we have the Church of Satan doing their usual thing and coming lawsuits that serve to point out the religious hypocrisy in this country. However, if Roe v. Wade does get overturned and the laws start getting passed, I would not be surprised if Jewish organizations start filling their lawsuits. At that point, we will see if Church and State are truly separate in this country.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

Can you provide any links to proposed state laws that would prohibit abortion if the mothers life is medically in danger. Not openions but actual proposed laws.

originally posted by: beyondknowledge
a reply to: Xcalibur254

Can you provide any links to proposed state laws that would prohibit abortion if the mothers life is medically in danger. Not openions but actual proposed laws.

Ummm, yeah.

This.

Does this mean Jewish Americans and satanists are teaming up over political talking points?


In todays episode of how the clown world turns…

a reply to: Xcalibur254

No, it wouldn't. Determining they don't have legal authority over something is not trampling rights.

It doesn't ban abortion.

If the state violated their rights under the COTUS they would be able to sue, which could then eventually make it back to the SCOTUS.

The legislative branch used to be elected with the purpose of passing laws to benefit their constituents. Sad that apparently they can't do that anymore and our entire federal government is powerless to do anything. Guess we'll have to just keep electing them though. There's no alternative.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

A pregnancy that endangers life is considered a Rodef, and thus it must be terminated.

Show me one pro life person that is against aborting a baby that is endangering the life of the mother.

a reply to: beyondknowledge

Alabama and Oklahoma have enacted bans with no exceptions.

If Roe is overturned Idaho will not allow any over 15 weeks. Well before most women find out any problem with the fetus itself or has severe health reasons after 20 weeks usually.

Louisiana currently has a bill moving forward with a total ban.

Chicago Tribune

a reply to: beyondknowledge

Here's Louisiana's proposed law. I don't see anything in there that allows any exceptions where abortion won't be counted as homicide.

ABORTION: Enacts the Abolition of Abortion in Louisiana Act of 2022

a reply to: Brotherman

No it means that taking the rights away from women is so egregious that Jewish Americans and Satanists are on the same side. Apparently law makers do not care that 70% of women in the country are pro choice.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

Actually it will be. With a comment from the Reverend who helped write the bill.

Bill Classifying Abortion as Homicide Is Advanced by Louisiana Lawmakers

“No compromises,” the Rev. Brian Gunter, pastor of First Baptist Church in Livingston and a leading supporter of the bill, told lawmakers before they voted on Wednesday. “No more waiting.”

Link

originally posted by: frogs453
a reply to: beyondknowledge

Alabama and Oklahoma have enacted bans with no exceptions.

If Roe is overturned Idaho will not allow any over 15 weeks. Well before most women find out any problem with the fetus itself or has severe health reasons after 20 weeks usually.

Louisiana currently has a bill moving forward with a total ban.

Chicago Tribune

Nice lot of second hand information and openions. I want links to actual state laws that are on the books or proposed to be before I am willing to express an openions on this.

A newspaper article is not a link to the information needed.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

There is an easy solution here. If the state you live in bans abortions and you just can't handle not being able to abort fetuses, move to a different state allowing abortions.

As said above, it is the failure of Congress to actually get anything done that is the real problem here.

a reply to: frogs453

As a married man I can say that 100 percent of women are also pro Satanists

a reply to: Xcalibur254

So religious freedom for Jews is more important than the life of an innocent child?

originally posted by: frogs453
a reply to: Brotherman

No it means that taking the rights away from women is so egregious that Jewish Americans and Satanists are on the same side. Apparently law makers do not care that 70% of women in the country are pro choice.

Jokes on you.

Law makers dont care about 99% of their constituents.

a reply to: tamusan

Except the whole point of my OP is that any law a state passes that prohibits abortion prevents Jewish people from practicing their faith, thus violating their 1st Amendment rights.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

Ill have to check with the ATF, IRS, NSA, DHS and the new missinformation governance board to validate your claim.

a reply to: LSU2018

If your 2nd Amendment rights take precedence over the lives of school children, why wouldn't the 1st Amendment rights of Jewish people take precedence over fetuses?

So if we extend the logic here, we can expect Jewish Americans to become murderously enraged and start taking lives of elected officials in their region?

Also. I’m guessing the rights of Jewish Americans and their religious credos are to supplant those of other Americans and American law?

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: beyondknowledge

Here's Louisiana's proposed law. I don't see anything in there that allows any exceptions where abortion won't be counted as homicide.

ABORTION: Enacts the Abolition of Abortion in Louisiana Act of 2022

:

Thank you for that link.

It seems that indeed some proposed laws are going too far. That is an unreasonable law because it doesn't address medical facts, mothers life endangered, etc...

I don't see this law passing in a reasonable world but that world nolonger exists.