54 million Americans remain completely unvaccinated 90 million plus refuse 3rd dose of Covid vaccine

Generally, my point here is at this rate of people getting boosters in 6-9 months likely less a 1/3 of the eligible population will be properly vaccinated.ie if nobody gets boosted perhaps we shouldn't have forced vaccinations, to begin with.

Then what?

was it worth it?

originally posted by: putnam6


Heard elsewhere vaccines probably saved about 250,000 deaths IIRC

Which is, of course, impossible to prove. Even the most well-controlled studies fail to take into account differences in potential exposure to the virus due to different professions, lifestyles, different levels of immune health, genetic factors, etc. etc.

It's worth noting that the vaccine efficacy studies didn't take that into account either. They're not required to because it'd be prohibitively expensive and time-consuming to do. But without that the results are of questionable scientific validity.

Unfortunately since Big Pharma is the biggest lobbying industry to Congress, the laws allow for approval of their products without sufficient scientific evidence of their efficacy via their revolving door of biased individuals in CDC, FDA, and the medical community.

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: putnam6


Heard elsewhere vaccines probably saved about 250,000 deaths IIRC

Which is, of course, impossible to prove. Even the most well-controlled studies fail to take into account differences in potential exposure to the virus due to different professions, lifestyles, different levels of immune health, genetic factors, etc. etc.

It's worth noting that the vaccine efficacy studies didn't take that into account either. They're not required to because it'd be prohibitively expensive and time-consuming to do. But without that the results are of questionable scientific validity.

Unfortunately since Big Pharma is the biggest lobbying industry to Congress, the laws allow for approval of their products without sufficient scientific evidence of their efficacy via their revolving door of biased individuals in CDC, FDA, and the medical community.

Don't shoot the messenger just pointing out that figure is out there, if none of these numbers matter there sure are loads of people tracking and using them and making decisions based on these numbers.

HERE'S THE LINK

jamanetwork.com...

We basically just killed our economy for extremely dubious reasons as a lot of people here suspected from the beginning.

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: BlackArrow
a reply to: putnam6

The question remains are they using the numbers you linked? What about misdiagnosed numbers like gunshot wounds, stabbings, traffic accidents, overdoses, suicides, etc. That to can make a huge difference.

Because I am fairly certain certain times of year has higher deaths like suicide rates, and overdosing then others. But we know they all get counted as covid, as those payments per diagnosis never stopped. Now September - December is usually a higher death statistic then January & Feb. As people look forward to a new year. But holiday blues like Xmas, Thanksgiving, etc.. can be to much for some.

I kinda stopped looking at numbers in general. Although I can clearly stated that deaths are reasonably high based on job and housing. I try to get an idea through other means at this point since they have proven to be so untrustworthy.

My suggestion is to talk to a morgue, in your area to see if something is needed to be worried about and then move on. Most morgues have already came out and said death rates skyrocketed after vaccines came out. But again to each their own, most places won't have issues generalizing as long as you don't invade privacy like asking names of those who died etc

Heard elsewhere vaccines probably saved about 250,000 deaths IIRC, so in other words, you decide if that difference was worth our loss of businesses small and large.

Sort of like me saying

“I have a bad cold today but I’m lucky that I had a beer last night or it would have been much worse!”

Really can’t prove me right or wrong.

a reply to: putnam6

Any evidence the 54 million are healthier than the vaxxed?

a reply to: putnam6

I agree. My post was purely meant to add additional information.

There's no neat correlation between lockdowns and cases levels. It doesn't appear to have been worth it to cripple our economies, along with all the mental health issues, education setbacks and all the other issues we warned about.

It's so ironic now too seeing all these articles and studies about the consequences, almost unanimously coming out with the tone of "how could anyone have known?"

I don't care about the #s but it sure was fun to watch the militant vaxxers head spin when you shot down a lot of their points with simple logic.
The argument that the unvaxxed are making them sick. The easiest way to defeat this one was to simply ask them well they can get it vaxxed? They would answer yes next question - so you can spread it while vaxxed? They would answer yes. The next statement was then how do you know another vaxxed person didn't give it to you. And their damn heads would spin because TV didn't tell them how to answer.
That being said I'm all for personal choice if you wanna mask wear a mask, if you wanna vaxx get vaxxed. If a business requires mask I will wear one as I believe in choice. But I will never agree with govt mandates because some people are scared. There's too many options for you to not go out and expose yourself do that and don't demand that others keep you safe. Your safety is 100٪ your own responsibility.

I think those number have been hard set for a good while now. As to the boosters many are not getting it unless they have a reason to do so.

a reply to: mdtaylorjr1

The vaccines are touted as “safe and effective”.

Not “somewhat, kinda, or partially safe and effective”.

So this begs the question, why isn’t it approved everywhere for all the same demographics and age groups?

Take a look at the second map.

covid19.trackvaccines.org...

Not very logical to me.

Most of the people I know who are un-vaccinated fall into this bracket....either they work in some kind of healthcare field and are smart...or they are not very smart but have friends or relatives who are knowledgeable about this kind of stuff in healthcare and listen to them because they know a lot about the side effects from those people who work in healthcare. There are also some people I know who are just not smart and feel they know this virus is not that bad for their age or risk group...so they don't want to take it.

I know twice as many people who don't take the vaccine that are informed about this virus and are pretty intelligent that aren't taking it than people who aren't that smart...but it seems that those un-over-educated people are not getting very bad cases...so are they really not smart since they got immunity naturally when they were not in a risk group? Kind of makes you wonder

Intelligence is not just learned knowledge, lots of not too educated people have lots of common sense. Just because you work at a restaurant doesn't mean you aren't intelligent.

a reply to: rickymouse

And just to add because if you are a doctor or working in a hospital as a nurse
& etc does NOT mean you are intelligent either. I have worked with
Drs that have no bloody clue what they are doing, just following textbook
& etc...I could work circles around. Running unnecessary test just to get
more money. I had NO respect for them & I was extremely fortunate to
work with some very great Drs & specialist in the Veterinary World.
So I am sure this relates to all medical fields & more.

"Intelligence is not just learned knowledge" - Ricky spot on!!!

Cheers
Ektar

a reply to: NorthOfStuff

If Comirnaty is safe and effective why isn't it for sale yet? It's been approved since last year but Pfizer is still selling the Bio-ntech version. Why didn't the government mandate a immediate label change to Comirnaty on all the Bio-ntech once it got the OK?

Not selling Comirnaty is the simplest biggest reason not to get vaxxed if Pfizer won't guarantee it's own product.

a reply to: ntech

Oh, and now look at what the Daily Mail just posted.

FDA limits use of J&J vaccine.

originally posted by: ntech
a reply to: ntech

Oh, and now look at what the Daily Mail just posted.

FDA limits use of J&J vaccine.

Yeah. Saw that several places. Not allowed to be used unless you are medically unable to take mRNA vax -- restricted because of blood clots. Seems like blood clots were brought up and shushed away several times. One of my coworkers' sister died from blood clot after it (40 yo). No investigation, just a shrug. This may change some things.