Has quantum mechanics proved that reality does not exist?

originally posted by: TzarChasm

It showed that mechanical observation required to detect particle behavior minutely influences the subject being studied. There's no magic happening.

"minutely"?! It wasn't merely a skew in the probability wave, The light in the experiment changed from a wave-like pattern to a particle-like pattern. The experiment itself changed the nature of light.

A light wave going through a double-slit will exhibit a wave pattern. So scientists wondered if they shot one photon at a time, would it still behave like a wave? It did. Somehow. The paradox is that one photon shouldn't be able to behave like a wave. But it does. It only behaves like a particle when experimenters are able to analyze the double slit in a way that would allow them to know which slit the photon went through.

Therefore the only known variable that determines whether a photon behaves like a wave or particle is whether or not it is being detected by human experiment.

"(The double slit experiment is) a phenomenon which is impossible to explain in any classical way, and which has in it the heart of quantum mechanics." Richard Feynman

a reply to: cooperton

The operative word is "behavior". The photon didn't change. It's behavior changed. Very different scenario.

originally posted by: Phantom423
a reply to: cooperton

The operative word is "behavior". The photon didn't change. It's behavior changed. Very different scenario.

Yes. The experimenters were able to change the behavior of physics simply by monitoring it on the quantum level, which is quite astounding.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TzarChasm

It showed that mechanical observation required to detect particle behavior minutely influences the subject being studied. There's no magic happening.

"minutely"?! It wasn't merely a skew in the probability wave, The light in the experiment changed from a wave-like pattern to a particle-like pattern. The experiment itself changed the nature of light.

A light wave going through a double-slit will exhibit a wave pattern. So scientists wondered if they shot one photon at a time, would it still behave like a wave? It did. Somehow. The paradox is that one photon shouldn't be able to behave like a wave. But it does. It only behaves like a particle when experimenters are able to analyze the double slit in a way that would allow them to know which slit the photon went through.

Therefore the only known variable that determines whether a photon behaves like a wave or particle is whether or not it is being detected by human experiment.

"(The double slit experiment is) a phenomenon which is impossible to explain in any classical way, and which has in it the heart of quantum mechanics." Richard Feynman

That's what I said. Mechanical observation minutely influences the subject being studied because it's impossible to physically measure subatomic phenomena without interacting with it.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Phantom423
a reply to: cooperton

The operative word is "behavior". The photon didn't change. It's behavior changed. Very different scenario.

Yes. The experimenters were able to change the behavior of physics simply by monitoring it on the quantum level, which is quite astounding.

Still not magic. Still no measurement of soul, or disembodied psyche sustaining itself, or other paranormal encounters that can be replicated and dissected. It's "cool" but hardly revolutionary or even marginally useful. Far be it from me to nuke your parade with practical wisdom but the cigar is just a cigar.

a reply to: cooperton

My point was that the photon is still a photon. It has no "awareness" or any other attribute which would indicate that it cares whether it behaves like a particle or a wave. The nature of a photon (light) remains the same.

a reply to: Direne

One time pad system key should be same length as text.
Resulting ciphertext should pass test for randomness.
Anything less random may be statistically cracked by machine or human mind.
Code breaking machines exist that use massively parallel processing methods to crack codes much faster than sequential processing analysis would predict, but they don't violate the laws of cause and effect.
Code cracking is one of the few useful applications for quantum computers.
Quantum computer hardware and applications that actually exists objectively.
Which you can actually use outside of your own mind.

Edit to add:

Quantum clocks have been developed and used over the last decade to improve our understanding of gravity and time dilation, one of the effects described by Einstein in his theory of general relativity..

www.wired.co.uk...

Which is why the imaging of Centaurus A with higher resolution quantum devices may provide some interesting new insight.

originally posted by: Phantom423
a reply to: cooperton

My point was that the photon is still a photon. It has no "awareness" or any other attribute which would indicate that it cares whether it behaves like a particle or a wave. The nature of a photon (light) remains the same.

The idea is that human consciousness is uniquely suited to manipulating the laws of physics and bending reality to our purposes. Because that's something that can't be exploited for selfish gain and generate a cascade of existential dysfunction. Humans would never do that. We're burdened with glorious purpose or some sci fi crap like that.

a reply to: Direne

Oh i think its a little too late for that, reality is all to suspiciously human already dont you think?
the point of no return has been passed long ago hahah.

maybe the whole thing is conscious of itself hence why it favors mind matter interaction with beings with consciousness like attracts like so to speak
because we are actively able to influence the mind matter interactions through choice, where as matter itself by its very nature is interacting whether it has a mind or not. matter influences other matter by its mere existence
because it is a part of the whole and the whole is conscious so therefore the tiny and the quantum are also a part conscious so are influenced by the over all mind.
Like a hologram for instance , if a holographic plate has an image and is smashed the whole image can be created from the shards , so maybe the universe is conscious and so all its constituent parts have some degree of this universal conscious and therefore are able to interact with the quantum realm in very interesting ways.

and so by the same token , we are also a part of that same universal conscious so we are also able to interact with the quantum realm
in strange ways

a reply to: fromunclexcommunicate

I cant remember where I heard it but Because I was reading about how mind matter interactions occur and got interested in all that , Id read or watched something cant remember where and I remember it talking about scientists being concerned about how the human brain can interact with quantum computers and that consciousness could effect the quantum random number generators used for encryption software for access to top security systems or missile launch codes or whatever.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: Phantom423
a reply to: cooperton

My point was that the photon is still a photon. It has no "awareness" or any other attribute which would indicate that it cares whether it behaves like a particle or a wave. The nature of a photon (light) remains the same.

The idea is that human consciousness is uniquely suited to manipulating the laws of physics and bending reality to our purposes. Because that's something that can't be exploited for selfish gain and generate a cascade of existential dysfunction. Humans would never do that. We're burdened with glorious purpose or some sci fi crap like that.

I always thought I was a figment of my own imagination. Now that I know that reality is malleable, I can throw that theory out the window and imagine that I'm Elon Musk's alter ego along with the signature to his bank accounts!

a reply to: Phantom423

You probably got that from a link like this.

thenextweb.com...

Nothing to do with military applications.

epjquantumtechnology.springeropen.com...

originally posted by: Phantom423

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: Phantom423
a reply to: cooperton

My point was that the photon is still a photon. It has no "awareness" or any other attribute which would indicate that it cares whether it behaves like a particle or a wave. The nature of a photon (light) remains the same.

The idea is that human consciousness is uniquely suited to manipulating the laws of physics and bending reality to our purposes. Because that's something that can't be exploited for selfish gain and generate a cascade of existential dysfunction. Humans would never do that. We're burdened with glorious purpose or some sci fi crap like that.

I always thought I was a figment of my own imagination. Now that I know that reality is malleable, I can throw that theory out the window and imagine that I'm Elon Musk's alter ego along with the signature to his bank accounts!

Nice to meet you Mr Knight.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: Phantom423

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: Phantom423
a reply to: cooperton

My point was that the photon is still a photon. It has no "awareness" or any other attribute which would indicate that it cares whether it behaves like a particle or a wave. The nature of a photon (light) remains the same.

The idea is that human consciousness is uniquely suited to manipulating the laws of physics and bending reality to our purposes. Because that's something that can't be exploited for selfish gain and generate a cascade of existential dysfunction. Humans would never do that. We're burdened with glorious purpose or some sci fi crap like that.

I always thought I was a figment of my own imagination. Now that I know that reality is malleable, I can throw that theory out the window and imagine that I'm Elon Musk's alter ego along with the signature to his bank accounts!

Nice to meet you Mr Knight.

I hope the MP's will be impressed!

originally posted by: fromunclexcommunicate
a reply to: Phantom423

You probably got that from a link like this.

thenextweb.com...

Nothing to do with military applications.

epjquantumtechnology.springeropen.com...

Not sure you're responding to the right person?

a reply to: Phantom423

From thenextweb link with the bitcoin accounts.

Elon Musk’s Neuralink claims it’s on the cusp of a working device

Doubt anyone wanted to spend the rest of their life stranded down in a 1960's Kansas missile silo.

a reply to: fromunclexcommunicate


Ok, got it.

If reality doesn't exist, why are you conciously experiencing reality as I am?

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: jerich0
Too many long posts in this thread. Post for us drunken bums. Say it in 2 sentences.

Or wake me up later.

Light behaves like a particle instead of a wave when its trajectory becomes known. This shows that light itself is aware of our awareness.

Good points!

Wigner's Friend shows there has to be quantum awareness. Awareness has to be fundamental to the quantum system. Here's more from the paper:


Wigner can now perform an interference experiment in an entangled basis containing the states of Eq. (1) to verify that the photon and his friend’s record are indeed in a superposition—a “fact” from his point of view. From this fact, Wigner concludes that his friend cannot have recorded a definite outcome. Concurrently however, the friend does always record a definite outcome, which suggests that the original superposition was destroyed and Wigner should not observe any interference. The friend can even tell Wigner that she recorded a definite outcome (without revealing the result), yet Wigner and his friend’s respective descriptions remain unchanged [6]

arxiv.org...

The question is, how is the quantum system aware about what Wigner knows or doesn't know about the quantum state his friend measured?

The friend can even call Wigner and say I carried out a measurement and as long as she doesn't tell Wigner the outcome of that measurement, Wigner can still measure interference.

Again, if there's an objective reality, Wigner's Friend should carry out a measurement in the lab and when Wigner does an interference measurement on the system that was measured by his friend, he shouldn't be able to see interference as though his friend didn't carry out a measurement.

When his friend tells him the outcome of the measurement, Wigner can no longer measure interference.

How is the quantum system aware of Wigner's knowledge about wether a measurement occurred?

It get's even deeper and that's why I talked about Can Wigner's Friend Lie?

Can Wigner’s Friend Lie?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

In this scenario, Wigner's Friend carries out a measurement in the lab and records that she measured vertical polarization. She then calls up Wigner and says she measured horizontal polarization.

If Wigner can carry out a interference measurement and still see interference, then this quantum awareness is very robust. It doesn't just know wether Wigner has knowledge of the state his friend measured. It also is aware when Wigner is being lied to about the state that his friend measured in the lab!!

a reply to: neoholographic

How many photons can dance on the head of a pin? I didn't know they could dance until I read your posts!

originally posted by: neoholographic

"Wigner can now perform an interference experiment in an entangled basis containing the states of Eq. (1) to verify that the photon and his friend’s record are indeed in a superposition—a “fact” from his point of view. From this fact, Wigner concludes that his friend cannot have recorded a definite outcome. Concurrently however, the friend does always record a definite outcome, which suggests that the original superposition was destroyed and Wigner should not observe any interference. The friend can even tell Wigner that she recorded a definite outcome (without revealing the result), yet Wigner and his friend’s respective descriptions remain unchanged"

arxiv.org...

The question is, how is the quantum system aware about what Wigner knows or doesn't know about the quantum state his friend measured?

The friend can even call Wigner and say I carried out a measurement and as long as she doesn't tell Wigner the outcome of that measurement, Wigner can still measure interference.

Truly remarkable. Quantum systems are aware of our awareness, or lack there of.

It get's even deeper and that's why I talked about Can Wigner's Friend Lie?

Can Wigner’s Friend Lie?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

In this scenario, Wigner's Friend carries out a measurement in the lab and records that she measured vertical polarization. She then calls up Wigner and says she measured horizontal polarization.

If Wigner can carry out a interference measurement and still see interference, then this quantum awareness is very robust. It doesn't just know wether Wigner has knowledge of the state his friend measured. It also is aware when Wigner is being lied to about the state that his friend measured in the lab!!

It's as though quantum particles have omniscience. The Laws that these quantum systems follow are an extension the omniscient God that created them. We are connected to all of this through our own quantum consciousness.