Sergei Naryshkin - About Polish claims to Western Ukraine

a reply to: turretless

Rurik has never been in Kiev according to the annals.

You must not be reading the same chronicle or the revisionist version, or need to brush up on reading comprehension skills.

Prince Oleg took the rule in Novgorod. and then conquered Kiev. Then moved the capitol there.

According to The Russian Primary Chronicle of the 12th century, Oleg, after succeeding his kinsman Rurik as ruler of Novgorod (c. 879), went down the Dnieper River with his Varangian retinue and seized control of Smolensk and Kiev (882), which he subsequently made his capital.

Oleg ruler of Novgorod

just a reminder, Rurik was a viking, so was Oleg. Which doesn't even address that there was no Muscovite Rus until about 400 years later.

originally posted by: BernnieJGato
a reply to: turretless

Rurik has never been in Kiev according to the annals.

You must not be reading the same chronicle or the revisionist version, or need to brush up on reading comprehension skills.

Prince Oleg took the rule in Novgorod. and then conquered Kiev. Then moved the capitol there.

According to The Russian Primary Chronicle of the 12th century, Oleg, after succeeding his kinsman Rurik as ruler of Novgorod (c. 879), went down the Dnieper River with his Varangian retinue and seized control of Smolensk and Kiev (882), which he subsequently made his capital.

Oleg ruler of Novgorod

just a reminder, Rurik was a viking, so was Oleg. Which doesn't even address that there was no Muscovite Rus until about 400 years later.

Where was I wrong?

I wrote that Rurik was not in Kyiv and you did not confirm that he was there.

originally posted by: turretless

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: turretless

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: turretless

I know Russian propaganda when I see it...

Third Eye?

Common sense mixed with independent thought

As I understand it, common sense is to always be anti-Russian.

and you would be wrong. Common sense would lead a person to distrust Putin and the Russian government. That does not make a person anti_Russian. There is a difference between the Russian people and Putin and his government.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: turretless

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: turretless

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: turretless

I know Russian propaganda when I see it...

Third Eye?

Common sense mixed with independent thought

As I understand it, common sense is to always be anti-Russian.

and you would be wrong. Common sense would lead a person to distrust Putin and the Russian government. That does not make a person anti_Russian. There is a difference between the Russian people and Putin and his government.

It is absolutely obvious to me that the "common sense" of the West does not recognize any governments other than those that are its puppets and act in the interests of the West.

a reply to: turretless

You were in two areas, plus i didn't say that Rurik was ever in Kiev.

One, Kevin Rus didn't exist until Oleg moved the Capitol to Kiev. Before then there was no Rus it was Rurikids.
Second, russia was was founded by Daniel I some four hundred years later who was the son of the son of the backstabbing boot licking Alexander Yaroslavich Nevsky

Alexander Yaroslavich Nevsky[1] (Russian: Александр Ярославич Невский; pronounced [ɐlʲɪˈksandr jɪrɐˈsɫavʲɪtɕ ˈnʲɛfskʲɪj] (listen); 13 May 1221[2] – 14 November 1263) served as Prince of Novgorod (1236–40, 1241–56 and 1258–1259), Grand Prince of Kiev (1236–52) and Grand Prince of Vladimir (1252–63) during some of the most difficult times in Kievan Rus' history.

Commonly regarded as a key figure of medieval Rus', Alexander was a grandson of Vsevolod the Big Nest and rose to legendary status on account of his military victories over German and Swedish invaders. He preserved Russian statehood and Russian Orthodoxy, agreeing to pay tribute to the powerful Golden Horde. Metropolite Macarius canonized Alexander Nevsky as a saint of the Russian Orthodox Church in 1547.[3]

Alexander Nevsky

So no matter how you try to spin it, russia/ mosow came from the Rurikid dynasty / Rurikids Kievan Rus empire. there was no russia/ moscow.

here is something you might want to gander at,

Whereas controversy continues to rage over the origin of the term Rus’, there is some consensus as to how the term came to be applied to the territory and inhabitants of the Kievan realm. Initially, the term Rus’ was associated with the ruling Varangian princes and the lands under their control. This meant, in particular, the cities of Kiev, Chernihiv, and Pereiaslav together with the surrounding countryside. The lands within this larger Kiev-Chernihiv-Pereiaslav triangle become the Rus’ land par excellence.

Beginning with Volodymyr the Great in the late tenth century and, especially, Iaroslav the Wise in the eleventh century, there was a conscious effort to associate the term with all the lands under the hegemony of Kiev’s grand princes. To the concept of Rus’ as the territory of Kievan Rus’ was added another dimension by the Christian inhabitants’ description of themselves collectively as Rus’ (the singular of which term was rusyn, sometimes rusych). Nevertheless, while political and cultural leaders from the various principalities (Galicia-Volhynia, Novgorod, Suzdal’, etc.) may have spoken of their patrimonies as part of the land of Rus’, they often referred to Rus’ as simply a roughly triangular area east of the middle Dnieper River surrounding the cities of Chernihiv, Kiev, and Pereiaslav.

THE MEANING OF RUS.

originally posted by: BernnieJGato
a reply to: turretless

You were in two areas, plus i didn't say that Rurik was ever in Kiev.

One, Kevin Rus didn't exist until Oleg moved the Capitol to Kiev. Before then there was no Rus it was Rurikids.
Second, russia was was founded by Daniel I some four hundred years later who was the son of the son of the backstabbing boot licking Alexander Yaroslavich Nevsky

Alexander Yaroslavich Nevsky[1] (Russian: Александр Ярославич Невский; pronounced [ɐlʲɪˈksandr jɪrɐˈsɫavʲɪtɕ ˈnʲɛfskʲɪj] (listen); 13 May 1221[2] – 14 November 1263) served as Prince of Novgorod (1236–40, 1241–56 and 1258–1259), Grand Prince of Kiev (1236–52) and Grand Prince of Vladimir (1252–63) during some of the most difficult times in Kievan Rus' history.

Commonly regarded as a key figure of medieval Rus', Alexander was a grandson of Vsevolod the Big Nest and rose to legendary status on account of his military victories over German and Swedish invaders. He preserved Russian statehood and Russian Orthodoxy, agreeing to pay tribute to the powerful Golden Horde. Metropolite Macarius canonized Alexander Nevsky as a saint of the Russian Orthodox Church in 1547.[3]

Alexander Nevsky

So no matter how you try to spin it, russia/ mosow came from the Rurikid dynasty / Rurikids Kievan Rus empire. there was no russia/ moscow.

here is something you might want to gander at,

Whereas controversy continues to rage over the origin of the term Rus’, there is some consensus as to how the term came to be applied to the territory and inhabitants of the Kievan realm. Initially, the term Rus’ was associated with the ruling Varangian princes and the lands under their control. This meant, in particular, the cities of Kiev, Chernihiv, and Pereiaslav together with the surrounding countryside. The lands within this larger Kiev-Chernihiv-Pereiaslav triangle become the Rus’ land par excellence.

Beginning with Volodymyr the Great in the late tenth century and, especially, Iaroslav the Wise in the eleventh century, there was a conscious effort to associate the term with all the lands under the hegemony of Kiev’s grand princes. To the concept of Rus’ as the territory of Kievan Rus’ was added another dimension by the Christian inhabitants’ description of themselves collectively as Rus’ (the singular of which term was rusyn, sometimes rusych). Nevertheless, while political and cultural leaders from the various principalities (Galicia-Volhynia, Novgorod, Suzdal’, etc.) may have spoken of their patrimonies as part of the land of Rus’, they often referred to Rus’ as simply a roughly triangular area east of the middle Dnieper River surrounding the cities of Chernihiv, Kiev, and Pereiaslav.

THE MEANING OF RUS.

Rurik (the first Russian ruler) ruled in Novgorod. Therefore, the seed of Russia was born there.

Then various cities became the great Russian centers of Kyiv, Rostov, Suzdal, Vladimir, Moscow, St. Petersburg.

I already wrote that Kievan Rus is a term coined by historians and it is not in the documents.

originally posted by: turretless

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: turretless

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: turretless

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: turretless

I know Russian propaganda when I see it...

Third Eye?

Common sense mixed with independent thought

As I understand it, common sense is to always be anti-Russian.

and you would be wrong. Common sense would lead a person to distrust Putin and the Russian government. That does not make a person anti_Russian. There is a difference between the Russian people and Putin and his government.

It is absolutely obvious to me that the "common sense" of the West does not recognize any governments other than those that are its puppets and act in the interests of the West.

Speaking of propaganda, devoid of independent thought and inability to do actual research.

When you stop relying on / repeating Russian propaganda come back and join the rest of us.

Ironic when you try to lecture someone for being anti russian when you are anti democracy, anti west and anti independent thought....

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: turretless

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: turretless

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: turretless

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: turretless

I know Russian propaganda when I see it...

Third Eye?

Common sense mixed with independent thought

As I understand it, common sense is to always be anti-Russian.

and you would be wrong. Common sense would lead a person to distrust Putin and the Russian government. That does not make a person anti_Russian. There is a difference between the Russian people and Putin and his government.

It is absolutely obvious to me that the "common sense" of the West does not recognize any governments other than those that are its puppets and act in the interests of the West.

Speaking of propaganda, devoid of independent thought and inability to do actual research.

When you stop relying on / repeating Russian propaganda come back and join the rest of us.

Ironic when you try to lecture someone for being anti russian when you are anti democracy, anti west and anti independent thought....

Why should I love the West?

Because of Napoleon? Because of Hitler? Because of Biden? Because of sanctions? Because of NATO?

a reply to: turretless

Then why demand people love Russia / Putin?

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: turretless

Then why demand people love Russia / Putin?

Please give a link to my post in which I demand to love Putin or Russia.

originally posted by: turretless

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: turretless

Then why demand people love Russia / Putin?

Please give a link to my post in which I demand to love Putin or Russia.

It is implied in your posts... You repeat Russian propaganda and when evidence is provided disproving the Russian lie you go on the attack and try to use verbal gymnastics to try and save your position. Just like you did when I posted where the idiot ass "info" came from for this thread (along with several others who made excellent arguments against the thread).

Poland wanting sections of West Ukraine is as idiotic as the claim that Germany wants Kaliningrad. The issue there is Germany has a law that prohibits any other territory from ever being incorporated into Germany.

a reply to: turretless

You didn't say anything in detail, you just hinted that you didn't agree with my post.

The US State Department acts according to the patterns of Russia's eternal enemies

May 11, 2022

According to Director of the Foreign Intelligence Service Sergei Naryshkin:

according to information received by the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service, the US State Department has set the task for controlled NGOs to launch a campaign to discredit the special military operation in Ukraine in Russian society. A set of primitive but alarmist slogans designed to sow panic has been prepared for stuffing into telegram channels and social networks. Their main content boils down to the fact that the "democratic Kyiv regime" with the support of the "great and terrible" West is about to inflict a crushing defeat on "totalitarian" Russia, and only a large-scale civil protest is supposedly able to save the country from an imminent catastrophe.

To increase the impact on the audience, the US State Department instructs its subordinates to actively use obscene language, offensive language and vulgar images when distributing propaganda. It is recommended not to disdain the spread of the most incredible "fakes" aimed at dehumanizing the political and military leadership of the Russian Federation in the eyes of the people. Washington believes that this approach is most effective for urban youth. It is assumed that, having "swallowed" this nonsense, it will take to the streets and launch "liberal-democratic" changes in Russia, that is, beneficial to the West.

In such actions of the US State Department, there is much in common with the traditions of the Ministry of Public Education and Propaganda of the Third Reich and its head, Joseph Goebbels, who considered intellectualism the worst enemy of any propaganda. He also owns the phrase "Give me the media and I will make a herd of pigs out of any nation." With the Russians, Goebbels then - in 1941 - did not succeed. Washington will not succeed either. I would like to advise the US State Department not to stoop to swearing. See to it that it does not happen that you yourself will have to throw yourself off the steepness into the sea and die in the water...

www.svr.gov.ru...




I don’t know if I managed to translate the text in such a way that the analogy with this gospel story became clear to you in the last sentence:

28) When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes, two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way.
29) “What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?”
30) Some distance from them a large herd of pigs was feeding.
31) The demons begged Jesus, “If you drive us out, send us into the herd of pigs.”
32) He said to them, “Go!” So they came out and went into the pigs, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and died in the water.

(Gospel of Matthew, chapter 8)

On the interaction of the United States with terrorist groups

May 17, 2022

According to information received by the Foreign Intelligence Service, the United States is actively recruiting even members of international terrorist organizations as mercenaries to participate in hostilities in Ukraine, including the Islamic State (ISIS) group banned in the Russian Federation. As recently as April of this year, with the participation of American intelligence services, about 60 ISIS militants aged 20 to 25 years were released from prisons controlled by the Syrian Kurds. Then they were transferred to the area of the American military base "Et-Tanf", located in Syria near the border with Jordan and Iraq, for combat training with a view to subsequent transfer to Ukrainian territory.

According to the Foreign Intelligence Service, this military base and its environs have long turned into a kind of terrorist "hub", where up to 500 ISIS loyalists and other jihadists are being "retrained" at the same time. Priority is given to citizens from the states of Transcaucasia and Central Asia. The special detachments formed from them are aimed mainly at carrying out sabotage and terrorist actions against units of the Russian Armed Forces in Syria, and now also in Ukraine. The training "course" at Al-Tanf includes training in the use of available types of anti-tank missile systems, MQ-1C reconnaissance and strike drones, advanced communications and surveillance equipment.

The above facts once again confirm that the United States is ready to use any means to achieve its geopolitical goals, not excluding sponsoring international terrorist groups. The consequences of this are not considered in the Joseph Biden administration, even when it comes to threats to the security of European allies and the lives of the Americans themselves.

www.svr.gov.ru...

originally posted by: turretless

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: turretless

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: turretless

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: turretless

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: turretless

I know Russian propaganda when I see it...

Third Eye?

Common sense mixed with independent thought

As I understand it, common sense is to always be anti-Russian.

and you would be wrong. Common sense would lead a person to distrust Putin and the Russian government. That does not make a person anti_Russian. There is a difference between the Russian people and Putin and his government.

It is absolutely obvious to me that the "common sense" of the West does not recognize any governments other than those that are its puppets and act in the interests of the West.

Speaking of propaganda, devoid of independent thought and inability to do actual research.

When you stop relying on / repeating Russian propaganda come back and join the rest of us.

Ironic when you try to lecture someone for being anti russian when you are anti democracy, anti west and anti independent thought....

Why should I love the West?

Because of Napoleon? Because of Hitler? Because of Biden? Because of sanctions? Because of NATO?

Probably because of whataboutisms?

If that's your thing, what about Stalin?

Well this is where it started.

Ukraine. Volodymyr Zelensky wants to grant Poles a special status in Ukraine - polishnews.co.uk...