Christ.

originally posted by: Smigg
Is Christ the God of the Old Testament, the one who created us.
Old Testament god.
Isaiah 45:7 affirms that God creates darkness and disaster. It is not a creation of mankind, nor of fallen beings or Satan. The Hebrew word here that is translated as "disaster" could also mean "wickedness", "hurt", "affliction" or "adversity". God creates these things directly. Any argument that asserts that evil is a result of Human free will must first get over the fact that the Christian Bible states that God creates evil and disaster itself. Not only does this God create darkness and disaster, but it actively "does" them too. For example in Job 42:11 God is described as doing evil to Job as part of its test of Job even though Job is described as holy and blameless. In other words, the evil done by God on Job was not the result of Job's free will. Also, his children and animals are all slaughtered too, as collateral damage1. God doesn't merely create evil and suffering as possibilities, it actively chooses to do them itself.

Its all about context and who is being addressed in the narrative. God is speaking directly to a disobedient Israel and Judah through His prophet, a nation He has a covenant with, a covenant that demands that God must steer them in a direction of repentance.
Its also relating to using Cyrus to overcome Israel and Judah, with a desire to bring about repentance
You pick and choose verse to make an argument out of context to justify your argument. Also you choose the bible version to suit, evil can and is often translated from "ra" as calamity or disaster and not evil. The whole verse is about being delivered from sin, its judgement, not moral evil

www.youtube.com...

I wont go through the rest of your comments as I dont really think you care

Well thats my take

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Smigg
Is Christ the God of the Old Testament, the one who created us.
Old Testament god.
Isaiah 45:7 affirms that God creates darkness and disaster. It is not a creation of mankind, nor of fallen beings or Satan. The Hebrew word here that is translated as "disaster" could also mean "wickedness", "hurt", "affliction" or "adversity". God creates these things directly. Any argument that asserts that evil is a result of Human free will must first get over the fact that the Christian Bible states that God creates evil and disaster itself. Not only does this God create darkness and disaster, but it actively "does" them too. For example in Job 42:11 God is described as doing evil to Job as part of its test of Job even though Job is described as holy and blameless. In other words, the evil done by God on Job was not the result of Job's free will. Also, his children and animals are all slaughtered too, as collateral damage1. God doesn't merely create evil and suffering as possibilities, it actively chooses to do them itself.

You pick and choose verse to make an argument out of context to justify your argument. Also you choose the bible version to suit, evil can and is often translated from "ra" as calamity or disaster and not evil. The whole verse is about being delivered from sin, its judgement, not moral evil

You have done the same to suit your argument, it boils down to interpretation and yours is wrong.

originally posted by: jerich0

originally posted by: Randyvine2
a reply to: Smigg

I'm taken back by these revelations! Waaaaay back!

Don't you people ever come up with a new approach?

Different person same regurgitation.

Don't diss da dogma dude, daringly disinterested dissidents dislike dat.

The truth hurts does it not?

originally posted by: Smigg

originally posted by: jerich0

originally posted by: Randyvine2
a reply to: Smigg

I'm taken back by these revelations! Waaaaay back!

Don't you people ever come up with a new approach?

Different person same regurgitation.

Don't diss da dogma dude, daringly disinterested dissidents dislike dat.

The truth hurts does it not?

Only if it's true.

originally posted by: jerich0

originally posted by: Smigg

originally posted by: jerich0

originally posted by: Randyvine2
a reply to: Smigg

I'm taken back by these revelations! Waaaaay back!

Don't you people ever come up with a new approach?

Different person same regurgitation.

Don't diss da dogma dude, daringly disinterested dissidents dislike dat.

The truth hurts does it not?

Only if it's true.

Then why does this thread upset you?

originally posted by: Smigg

originally posted by: jerich0

originally posted by: Smigg

originally posted by: jerich0

originally posted by: Randyvine2
a reply to: Smigg

I'm taken back by these revelations! Waaaaay back!

Don't you people ever come up with a new approach?

Different person same regurgitation.

Don't diss da dogma dude, daringly disinterested dissidents dislike dat.

The truth hurts does it not?

Only if it's true.

Then why does this thread upset you?

If I wanted a bible class, I'd go to a church.

Never said it upset me either, just it is boring.

Why so defensive? feeling doubts?

PS: It's not really a conspiracy in religion, is it. Just more proselytizing.

originally posted by: jerich0

originally posted by: Smigg

originally posted by: jerich0

originally posted by: Smigg

originally posted by: jerich0

originally posted by: Randyvine2
a reply to: Smigg

I'm taken back by these revelations! Waaaaay back!

Don't you people ever come up with a new approach?

Different person same regurgitation.

Don't diss da dogma dude, daringly disinterested dissidents dislike dat.

The truth hurts does it not?

Only if it's true.

Then why does this thread upset you?

If I wanted a bible class, I'd go to a church.

Never said it upset me either, just it is boring.

Why so defensive? feeling doubts?

PS: It's not really a conspiracy in religion, is it. Just more proselytizing.

Don't click on threads that you know will bore you?

a reply to: Smigg

Any argument that asserts that evil is a result of Human free will must first get over the fact that the Christian Bible states that God creates evil and disaster itself. Not only does this God create darkness and disaster, but it actively "does" them too. For example in Job 42:11 God is described as doing evil to Job as part of its test of Job even though Job is described as holy and blameless. In other words, the evil done by God on Job was not the result of Job's free will.

God created evil only from the standpoint that he created beings with the free will to commit evil, like Satan, a fallen angel.

Job 42:11 is stating that the Lord brought on evil to Job only because God allows evil to exist at all. The story of Job shows how God's fallen creations (Satan) are still no match for the will of God. Satan committed evils against Job and God allowed them to happen.

Is it God's will that evil exist, yes. Is God the one committing the evils, no. As a righteous judge, it is also not evil for him to remove his evil enemies from the earth either.

Rightly, Jehovah brought evil or calamity upon Adam for his disobedience. Hence, in the Scriptures, Jehovah is referred to as the Creator of evil or calamity. (Isa 45:7) His enforcing of the penalty for sin, namely, death, has proved to be an evil, or a calamity, for mankind. So, then, evil is not always synonymous with wrongdoing. Examples of evils or calamities created by Jehovah are the Flood of Noah’s day and the Ten Plagues visited upon Egypt. But these evils were not wrongs. Rather, the rightful administration of justice against wrongdoers was involved in both cases.

Jehovah Makes Peace, Creates Evil (1952)

...

“I MAKE PEACE, AND CREATE EVIL”

The Scriptures speak of Jehovah as the God of peace: “The God who gives peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly.” (Rom. 16:20, NW) That text, however, also implies that Jehovah is the God of war, in that he will crush his enemies. How can he be both the God of peace and the God of war? In that there is a proper time and occasion for peace and for war. “For everything there is an appointed time; and there is a time for every purpose under the heavens: a time to love, and a time to hate; a time for war, and a time for peace.”—Eccl. 3:1, 8, AT.

Jehovah makes peace now for those who seek him in his appointed way. “Jehovah will bless his people with peace.” The new world over which his Son will rule will be a peaceful world: “In his days shall the righteous flourish, and abundance of peace, till the moon be no more.” “Of the increase of his government and of peace there shall be no end.” That is why the angels said at the time of Jesus’ birth, “Peace among men of good-will.”—Ps. 29:11; 72:7; Isa. 9:7, AS; Luke 2:14, NW.

When creatures go contrary to his will then it becomes necessary for Jehovah to make war upon them in his own time and way. Then he becomes the God of war: “Jehovah strong and mighty, Jehovah mighty in battle. Who is this King of glory? Jehovah of hosts, he is the King of glory.” (Ps. 24:8, 10, AS; Jas. 5:4, NW) As such he fought for his people Israel in times past, and he will again show himself as the God of war at the battle of Armageddon, where he will completely destroy his enemies for the vindication of his supremacy and the deliverance of his people.—2 Chron. 20:15; Rev. 16:14, 16.

In what sense can it be said that Jehovah creates evil? Certainly not in the sense of his creating wickedness or moral badness, for it is utterly impossible for him to do anything wrong. “It is impossible for God to lie.” We are assured, “Good and upright is Jehovah: therefore will he instruct sinners in the way.” Addressing him the psalmist stated: “Righteousness and justice are the foundation of thy throne: lovingkindness and truth go before thy face.” And Moses sang of this theme: “For I will proclaim the name of Jehovah: ascribe ye greatness unto our God. The Rock, his work is perfect; for all his ways are justice: a God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and right is he.”—Deut. 32:3, 4; Ps. 25:8; 89:14, AS; Heb. 6:18, NW.

Yes, Jehovah is very jealous for his name as a God of justice. That is why when Abraham, in connection with the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, asked, “Shall not the judge of the whole earth himself act justly?” Jehovah was willing to grant Abraham’s plea if but ten righteous persons were to be found in those cities. (Gen. 18:20-33, AT) Throughout the Scriptures, from Genesis to Revelation, Jehovah appeals to our reason and explains his reasons for executing his judgments so that we may have unshaken confidence in his justice. Particularly is this apparent in the prophecies of Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel.—Isa. 1:2-20; 24:1-5; Jer. 16:10-13; 22:1-9; Ezek. 6:1-10; 22:1-16.

Jehovah, however, can be said to create evil, because the term “evil” can be used to designate not only “moral badness or offense; wrongdoing; wickedness”, but also “anything impairing happiness or welfare or depriving of good; injury; disaster”. (Webster’s Unabridged Dictionary) In view of the foregoing scriptures showing that Jehovah is just and righteous we must conclude that the evil that he creates must be that of calamity and disaster.

...

EVIL VERSUS WRONGDOING

Thus we see that there is a great difference between evil and wrongdoing. All wrong or wrongdoing is evil, but not all evil is wrong. An act of injustice is always wrong and it usually results in working evil or injury to another. On the other hand, the administration of justice is always right. Even though it may bring evil upon the one against whom it is enforced, that does not mean that the administration of justice is wrong. Rather, it shows how God does create evil.

...

Isaiah 45:7 (NW):

I form light and create darkness,

I make peace and create calamity;

I, Jehovah, am doing all these things.

Concerning the first sentence, see the beginning of the 1952 article, the part I skipped. Ah well, might as well quote it now:

“I FORM the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.” (Isa. 45:7, AS) This reference to Jehovah’s creating darkness and evil has been gleefully seized upon by skeptics, atheists and other critics of the Bible to support their position that it is not the inspired Word of God but merely a collection of ancient writings of a primitive people. However, their prejudice, doubtless begotten by a lurking suspicion that their position is not as strong as they would like it to be, has blinded them to a reasonable consideration of this text as well as of the rest of the Bible. Instead of following such a course, let us heed the counsel of the Bible’s Author, “Come now, and let us reason together,” and see just what light reason and the Bible itself throw on the meaning of this scripture.—Isa. 1:18.

How does Jehovah form light and create darkness? He forms light by causing his Word to be understood through the fulfillment of its prophecies. “Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and light unto my path.” “The path of the righteous is as the dawning light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.” Such light, however, is not for the wicked. “Light is sown for the righteous, and gladness for the upright in heart.” To the wicked Jehovah sends darkness. “God did not hold back from punishing the angels that sinned, but, by throwing them into Tartarus, delivered them to pits of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment.” And concerning men who slip into the Christian congregation for base purposes we are told that for them “the blackness of darkness stands reserved forever”. (Ps. 97:11; 119:105; Prov. 4:18, AS; 2 Pet. 2:4; Jude 4, 13, NW) Such was the case in the ninth plague upon ancient Egypt. The Egyptians were enveloped with a darkness that could be felt, whereas the Israelites had light in their dwellings.—Ex. 10:21-23.

Job 42:11 (NW):

All his brothers and sisters and all his former friends came to him and ate a meal with him in his house. They sympathized with him and comforted him over all the calamity that Jehovah had allowed to come upon him. Each of them gave him a piece of money and a gold ring.

Mark 10

17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
18 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. 19 You know the commandments: ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.’[d]”
20 “Teacher,” he declared, “all these I have kept since I was a boy.”
21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
22 At this the man’s face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.
23 Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!”

That hard