Christ.

Is Christ the God of the Old Testament, the one who created us.
Old Testament god.
Isaiah 45:7 affirms that God creates darkness and disaster. It is not a creation of mankind, nor of fallen beings or Satan. The Hebrew word here that is translated as "disaster" could also mean "wickedness", "hurt", "affliction" or "adversity". God creates these things directly. Any argument that asserts that evil is a result of Human free will must first get over the fact that the Christian Bible states that God creates evil and disaster itself. Not only does this God create darkness and disaster, but it actively "does" them too. For example in Job 42:11 God is described as doing evil to Job as part of its test of Job even though Job is described as holy and blameless. In other words, the evil done by God on Job was not the result of Job's free will. Also, his children and animals are all slaughtered too, as collateral damage1. God doesn't merely create evil and suffering as possibilities, it actively chooses to do them itself.

"And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people."
Exodus 32:14

"The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name."
Exodus 15:3

"For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God."
Exodus 34:14

"I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7)

Satan and God are Interchangeable

“Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.”

Psalms 139:12 (KJV)

“And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.”

2 Corinthians 11:14

As various authors copied copies of the Hebrew Scriptures, changes accumulated in the stories. Sometimes, the same story appears twice. There are even two accounts of the Creation that contradict each other in the details. One such doubled story shows us clearly that the Old Testament God is evil, and Satan itself is not a separate being, but is actually part of God, a face of God. There is one occasion when David took a census of his men in order to count how many could fight in the armies of Israel. 1 Chronicles 21:2 and 2 Samuel 24:2 both contain a copy of the exact same text:

“So David said to Joab and the commanders of the troops, "Go and count the Israelites from Beersheba to Dan. Then report back to me so that I may know how many there are."”

1 Chronicles 21:2

“So the king said to Joab and the army commanders with him, "Go throughout the tribes of Israel from Dan to Beersheba and enroll the fighting men, so that I may know how many there are."”

2 Samuel 24:2

What had happened is that God had a rule: That David was not allowed to 'number' Israel. But, for some reason, David went ahead and did so. As a result, God punished them all for breaking his rule. But, it is very telling when we examine the preceding verse: Who inspired David to count Israel's fighting men?

“Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel.”

1 Chronicles 21:1

“The anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, "Go and take a census of Israel and Judah."”

2 Samuel 24:1

In one copy of the story, we are told Satan told David to do so. In the other, it was God. How can this be? It is because in the Old Testament, Satan and God are the same being. Satan in the Old Testament is merely the face that God puts on when it is testing its people. "The anger of the Lord" is Satan. Another example is 1 Timothy 1:20, where God mentions "Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme". Satan isn't a being that freely chose to reject God; it is a hidden part of God, that God uses as a tool so it doesn't have to sully its own name. It was common in old religions (Hinduism, Roman religions, etc) for gods to have multiple faces, each associated with different emotions. In the Christian Bible, Satan is God.

A similar confusion of roles happens in the Book of Job. In Job 1:8-12 Satan approaches God and asks to test Job's loyalty to God. In Job 1:11 it is God who is asked "put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face". Satan's idea is that if God demolishes Job's good life, then Job will no longer be faithful to God. But Satan can't do this itself as it is God that has the power to do evil. In the next verse God gives that power to Satan:

“And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand.”

Job 1:12 [KJV]

So, Satan acts only when God gives it power to do so. Once again, we see that God and Satan are merely two facets of the same being. One final verse seals this idea. Who, when it comes to the concluding of the story in chapter 42, is given the credit for bringing evil against Job? It is God itself:

“[Job's friends and family] comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him.”

Job 42:11 [KJV]

Other translations such as Young's Literal Translation phrase it in the same way. God and Satan are intertwined. Satan can't do anything except by the will of God. Psalms 139:12, 1 Chronicles 21:1-2 and 2 Samuel 24:1-2, and Job 1:8-12, 42:11 all confuse good and evil, God and Satan into one single creative force, with God being described as not only the source of evil, but as its actual instigator. God cannot be benevolent.

Adam and Eve
The immoral doctrine of original sin, where children are punished for the sins of their parents is hardly the scheme of a moral god. Adam and Eve were punished with death, pain, suffering and caused the evil of all mankind... yet they themselves 'sinned' before they knew the difference between Good and Evil. God must be immoral, if it punishes innocent people for sins they do not understand and could not resist.

The Crucifixion
The crucifixion makes no sense. The crucifixion did not empower God as God is omnipotent. It did not aid its understanding of Humanity, as God is omniscient. God did not need to become Human to experience Human suffering: God already knew. God is able to judge us perfectly, because God is perfect, just and all-knowing. The crucifixion of Jesus did not improve God's judgement of us, as God's judgement was perfect both before and after the crucifixion. The crucifixion did not aid us, as "knowing Jesus" was not the point of the crucifixion unless God has arbitrarily condemned everyone to hell who happened to live before the founding of Christianity. That those who lived before the time of Jesus' crucifixion are also judged fairly by (perfect) God means that there was no actual point to it all except as a needless public relations exercise. The entire escapade seems to be an irrational story copied from pre-Christian myths.

boring, i'm bored. why are you so boring, it's boring. bored....

another blah blah blah pages pages pages thread on god.

a reply to: jerich0

To be fair jericho, it was posted in the forum with a Christian cross and a question mark on it. While boring to some of us there is some deep deep thought put into disseminating the arcane fantasy tales of a very convoluted book.

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: jerich0

To be fair jericho, it was posted in the forum with a Christian cross and a question mark on it. While boring to some of us there is some deep deep thought put into disseminating the arcane fantasy tales of a very convoluted book.

Yeah, fair enough.. I'll see myself out..

a reply to: Smigg

I am personally only interested in Jesus, the time before his coming was a truly dark time and people were often rather more evil than you may like to think so when God had Israel for example wipe out entire city's to take the land that had been given to them those city's were often filled by very evil people, child sacrifices and worse.

But read this and think on it.
www.biblica.com...

Now it is wrong to take the new testament out of context so read the old testament as well so that you may get a better understanding.

There Were sect's of Christians that actually believed the God of the old testament was Evil and that Jesus was Good but they were a bit wrong, it was Humanity that is EVIL and only through Christ can we be redeemed, God has always been good and perfect.


Those whom reject Jesus reject the Good Judge and will face not have him there to take there place when they face the OTHER judge whom they have chosen by rejecting the Christ.


God is one being, in the beginning was God and with God (one with GOD) was the word and the word IS/WAS (ONE WITH) God and all thing's were made through him and nothing that was made was made without him.

When the Word came down he came out of GOD and is identical to GOD and also NOT A CREATURE but in fact the creator himself but sent from himself to take on human form as the Son of God, Begotten NOT CREATED.

So since the Son IS one with the FATHER and it was in fact in every way true that Jesus said what the FATHER Said and did all things in accord with the FATHER the holy spirit DOES come from the SON as WELL as the FATHER so there is a bit of an argument between the Catholic's and the Orthodox resolved in a tiny bit of Logic, the SON is ONE WITH THE FATHER even though he came out of the Father and became man he was/IS one with the father in the beginning and is only now separate for our sake - the only living image of God that is actually ACCURATE because he IS GOD.

So if you LOVE Jesus you actually LOVE the FATHER because same personality albeit Jesus went through a life as a man and suffered for us but otherwise the same person now become TWO and the third comes from BOTH OF THEM the HOLY SPIRIT the comforter whom Jesus promised to send when he RETURNED to the FATHER and then did so.

It is easy to be shocked and appalled at some of the things we see in the old testament that that is hypocritical because our morality (When we have any at all that is) is actually founded on our Christian traditions and teaching's to love one another as we love ourselves and God above all.

Remember the world without God's grace was and were it is lacking still is a very dark place and great evil always exists there, only the grace of God banishes it not some anti theist attempt to blame God for the ill's caused by mankind itself as so many fall into the trap of doing.


Is he the same God, I believe he is but remember it was before the day of the Lord's favour, before he came to deliver us.

We are the clay on the potters wheel, the wood in the carpenters hand and the wayward sheep that the shepherd comes looking for.

But there are other's, the Tares the wolves the enemy's of God, all those punishments were meant for them, God will chastise his own children out of LOVE for them, teach them right from wrong and not to follow the Jezebel spirit that has taken over this very age of our world or the materialism of the atheist and corporate false God's or the temptations to follow other FALSE faith's.

Sadly we once again live in a time of growing darkness, people are turning away from God and following after false shepherds and thinking that they know better or simply so empty and devoid of the living spirit that they simply no longer care.

But GOD CARES.

a reply to: Smigg

I find this a very interesting theory.

where children are punished for the sins of their parents is hardly the scheme of a moral god

I've always thought this was very cruel of God. Why would God do this??

a reply to: Smigg

I'm taken back by these revelations! Waaaaay back!

Don't you people ever come up with a new approach?

Different person same regurgitation.

a reply to: jerich0

OH no, don't leave. I love your beard. To be on topic, it's a Jesus beard ain't it?

a reply to: Smigg

no..

even the name Christ... the anointed one...

Means hes subservient to someone

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Smigg

no..

even the name Christ... the anointed one...

Means hes subservient to someone

Do you believe the Father to be the god of the old testament?

originally posted by: Smigg

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Smigg

no..

even the name Christ... the anointed one...

Means hes subservient to someone

Do you believe the Father to be the god of the old testament?

nope...

OT god was a clueless twat... might have been an alien

I mean he landed on Mt. Sinai using rockets apparently... so

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: Smigg

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Smigg

no..

even the name Christ... the anointed one...

Means hes subservient to someone

Do you believe the Father to be the god of the old testament?

nope...

OT god was a clueless twat... might have been an alien

I mean he landed on Mt. Sinai using rockets apparently... so

Christ means "Conscious" or "Conscience"

Hence "The anointed one". One as in "self", not a particular one person or individual

They are talking about the anointing of self. A conscious mind, capable of self-reflection in conscience

The Old Testament equivalent of this word (also mistranslated) is "Kohen"

Also, the word "Jesus" in the New Testament, is the same as the word "Samuel" in the Old Testament. They both mean "Emotional"

"Theos", which is mistranslated as "God", means "Thought". It is the same as "Thor" in Norse, or "Thoth" in Egyptian

When you use these translations, Bible verses start to make sense

"Jesus Christ" is the son of "God"
"Emotional Conscience" is born of "Thought"

Apply it to the Biblical stories, they make sense

Not only this, they make sense when cross-referenced to other misunderstood mythology

a reply to: Smigg


you asked if Christ-Jesus was the OT Creator God... nope,

the person Jesus, was the role character 'Word', meaning All the Eschatology, Prophecies laying out the cyclical Destruction of civilization, in this Episode known a Armageddon

the Jesus uber-man, was conceived from the 'seed' of King David...and fertilized Egg from Mary...to make Jesus/Emmanuel/Christ the firstborn 'Son-of-man', or DivineHuman in history


A theme played out in each creation-catastrophe cycle in Earths' long 4 billion year presence in this solar system


god resides in the Divine Dyson-sphere of time-space, a throne called heaven, a type 3 civilization in our comprehension.... being recognized as a religion was human design, the Divine Host is hyper advanced and operates in the mythic & poetic/metaphor realms


~go listen to a Tibetian Bowl ring...there lots of web links to hear it vibrate~

Is Christ the God of the Old Testament, the one who created us.
Old Testament god.

Isaiah 45:7 affirms that God creates darkness and disaster. It is not a creation of mankind, nor of fallen beings or Satan. The Hebrew word here that is translated as "disaster" could also mean "wickedness", "hurt", "affliction" or "adversity".

Christ is God manifest in flesh. So technically half.

First question. In the Isahiah 45 7 that I found..puprtedly KJV.."I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace and create EVIL. I the Lord do all these things." But like I said, that's the King James.

Does the word EVIL also translate to "disaster, wickedness, hurt, affliction or adversity"? Because I would think as strong of a word that EVIL is that the Hebrew translation would be different and somehow relate directly to God.

The tree of knowledge of good and evil informs us that EVIL is required for KNOWLEDGE. We cannot truly know forgiveness for example. Until we experience a great greviance against our being etc etc etc. So wars greatly accelerate knowledge. Given our immortal souls, a death is more akin to a dream. That cannot negatively effect our inner being in the slightest.

So I believe that Jesus saving us from sin is an oxymoron. I think its more likely his purpose was to stir the pot to accelerate knowledge bringing in the dark ages of christainity . In Gospel of Thomas Jesus stated “Perhaps people think that I have come to cast peace upon the earth. But they do not know that I have come to cast dissension upon the earth: fire, sword, war. For there will be five in one house: there will be three against two and two against three, father against son and son against father. And they will stand as solitary ones.”. I also think its very possible that the first and second beast of revelation was Jesus and Paul. Both being one and the same person. Yet contained in Christianity are a great many enlightened passages if read from the perspective of inner rather than delusional outer self that seeks salvation of its egocentric mind.

Scripture says Yeshua ( Jesus created all things. The Heavens and the Earth, and the whole Universe. All Angels ( likely billions) were also created by Him. Many people don't understand this because of the name he is called by while describing these events. He has several names, and one of them is " The Word".

In the beginning was The Word. And The Word was with God, and The Word was God, and The Word was made flesh and tented among us.

He holds the title for the Universe.

In the O.T, or Judaism, Satan is considered an angel of death that is totally subservient to God only, all while tempting him too by tempting others. And there is no Hell in Judaism ether, so no surprises. Jesus does seem to have mixed reactions from what I understand, but isn't deemed God.

Catholism/Christianity(let's fight about it), is the only religion that deems him God in one way or the other an is going to have inevitable battle Satan. Something with Islam but is considerdda prophet second to Moe while Satan, bad, very bad.

It more about Saturn then anything being a primordial being, and confusing the crap out of ancient cultures at night with Gnostics.

originally posted by: Randyvine2
a reply to: Smigg

I'm taken back by these revelations! Waaaaay back!

Don't you people ever come up with a new approach?

Different person same regurgitation.

Don't diss da dogma dude, daringly disinterested dissidents dislike dat.

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: jerich0

OH no, don't leave. I love your beard. To be on topic, it's a Jesus beard ain't it?

I do try. I actually had to trim it recently, and went a little to far. now I look hip and cool.. I don't like it at all.

O.o