Similarities between the government in the book 1984 and the US Public schools - its scary.

I have read the book 1984, by George Orwell. I noticed that it has many similarities to our public schools. I realize it is a fiction book... but the similarities are scary.
1) Our government teaches our kids not to think for ourselves, but to think what our schools think.
2) It gives programs much like the 2 Minute Hate to kids in school. Today, ours was against violence. However, our principal often announces about how bad some people have ruined the environment, to make us upset.
3) We all have to believe what our government teaches, otherwise people who dont get a bad grade. For example, we have to deny Creation on our tests, by saying evolution really happened. Thats agains many peoples beliefs, and Christians arent supposed to deny their religion.
4) The schools also change the meaning of words, as liberals always do. Take, for example, the word progressive. I guess "progressives" (socialists) want progress, but its obviously progress towards a future of everybody being poor and no chance of rebellion. In 1984, they were making a new languange to change the meaning of words.
There's more, but I cant tell it all now.

Originally posted by DanD9
3) We all have to believe what our government teaches, otherwise people who dont get a bad grade. For example, we have to deny Creation on our tests, by saying evolution really happened. Thats agains many peoples beliefs, and Christians arent supposed to deny their religion.

You made a few valid points, but I think that saying we have to deny creation on our tests is going a little far. The tests are designed to test your knowledge of evolution as if it had actually happened. They're not testing you on fact, but on theory. An unproven theory, much as Christianity is unproven. I'm a Christian, but I'm not offended by studying evolution. No one is saying that you're denying Christianity by taking a test on evolution. Unless, of course, your tests on evolution force you to take a stand on this subject and you get marked off for saying that you think it's bologna. In that case, you should report it to someone, because that's against the rights given to you by the US Constitution.

Otherwise, good observation. I've read 1984 as well, but have never associated it with any school system.

Are you sure you are not a littler bit bias about the way you think?

We all are, we all have our own set of believes and some of them we even swear by it.

After all remember your thoughts and views are influenced by your family values and believes, so how can you make an objective review when I notice that you said.

"Changing the meaning of words as liberals always do"

That tells me that you may be bias against liberals? How can you tell that they change words? somebody obviously had told you so and you agree.

All the schools around here are moving towards everyone wearing uniforms. The message seems to be "Conform, conform. There is nothing individual about yoursef". Pretty scary.

Originally posted by marg6043
Are you sure you are not a littler bit bias about the way you think?

We all are, we all have our own set of believes and some of them we even swear by it.

After all remember your thoughts and views are influenced by your family values and believes, so how can you make an objective review when I notice that you said.

"Changing the meaning of words as liberals always do"

That tells me that you may be bias against liberals? How can you tell that they change words? somebody obviously had told you so and you agree.

My family has no values... lol. But, Liberals do change words around... like my example of progressive. Now, liberals often want regression, or backwards change. they want things to go backwards, back to bad states of living and less freedom. Now,last time I checked, progressive means to want progress or to bring progress. There are other examples, But I'm too tired ATM to think of them.Thanks for pointing it out - I was in a hurry so I couldnt say all I wanted to.

Originally posted by mj13

Originally posted by DanD9
3) We all have to believe what our government teaches, otherwise people who dont get a bad grade. For example, we have to deny Creation on our tests, by saying evolution really happened. Thats agains many peoples beliefs, and Christians arent supposed to deny their religion.

You made a few valid points, but I think that saying we have to deny creation on our tests is going a little far. The tests are designed to test your knowledge of evolution as if it had actually happened. They're not testing you on fact, but on theory. An unproven theory, much as Christianity is unproven. I'm a Christian, but I'm not offended by studying evolution. No one is saying that you're denying Christianity by taking a test on evolution. Unless, of course, your tests on evolution force you to take a stand on this subject and you get marked off for saying that you think it's bologna. In that case, you should report it to someone, because that's against the rights given to you by the US Constitution.

Otherwise, good observation.

I've read 1984 as well, but have never associated it with any school system.

They mark you down to say, thats not what happened. The questions ask like, "how are there different species and animals?" It asks you to answer what you think happened, and if you think differently, you get marked down.
Also - maybe this is not how all schools are.

I don't know where you got that information from,

But if you see what is going on lately in our country it seems that the some minority groups fire up by our conservative government wants to turn our nation into a nation rule by theology and secular views.

Perhaps you need to keep an eye open on what is going around you and then you will see that is quite the opposite.

You're a bad parent if you solely rely on the public education or any school system to teach your children. As a parent, it is your responsibility to know what goes on in school and add to it as "you" see fit. Be a good parent and your kid won't grow up to be a sheep.

There's nothing wrong with a school uniform, your kids can be themselves and dress as they want when they are not in school. Uniforms imo helps to cut down on some of the bullying and other crap that happens in school when cliques form due to a way a person dressed.

We do have problems in our school system, but it nothing like 1984.

Originally posted by marg6043
I don't know where you got that information from,

But if you see what is going on lately in our country it seems that the some minority groups fire up by our conservative government wants to turn our nation into a nation rule by theology and secular views.

Perhaps you need to keep an eye open on what is going around you and then you will see that is quite the opposite.

I dont like either way, the government should not control beliefs. Its up to individuals to choose. I am a libertarian, and I was just saying, that (well maybe its only my school) schools are similar to the government in the book 1984

A dress code is really enough. I know that they believe that it's unfair if some kids have designer clothes and some don't but is it realistic for them to believe that everything will be equal in life. I think they are being sold into the idea that the government will decide everything for them. What they wear, eat, and where they live.

Originally posted by worldwatcher
You're a bad parent if you solely rely on the public education or any school system to teach your children. As a parent, it is your responsibility to know what goes on in school and add to it as "you" see fit. Be a good parent and your kid won't grow up to be a sheep.

There's nothing wrong with a school uniform, your kids can be themselves and dress as they want when they are not in school. Uniforms imo helps to cut down on some of the bullying and other crap that happens in school when cliques form due to a way a person dressed.

We do have problems in our school system, but it nothing like 1984.

I am not a parent - I'm a student. Also - bullying? I dress unlike other people, and I've never had a bullying problem. If anyone hurts me, theyre sorry.... Also I wasnt saying that school was like 1984, I was sayin that there are similarities.

Wait till the deliberate underfunding of the education system leads to the call, and then implementation of its privatisation.

Maps courtesy of Exxon Mobil, educational videos indispersed with targeted adverts, jotters sponsered by Coca Cola and math problems like "Johnny has eight Chicken McNuggets, if he eats three how many Chicken McNuggets does Johnny have left?"

The Conservatives here succeeded similarly with getting the railways privatised, and nearly succeeded with the NHS. What else can you do when chronic underfunding seems to make it the only option?

BTW, you do know Orwell was a socialist and what type of society he was talking about, right?

Well I grow up in a secular environment, even when catholic views were ever present and we celebrated everything religious from nativity in our school plays to morning prayers, we studied the evolution theory with not problem, occurs how can we not, after all we have baby Jesus in the Christmas celebration all the time, and I wore uniform all my school years It was more for identification and security. Uniform never bother me at all.

But all that and the influence of religious views in school, didn't took away the fact that as I grew older I made my on decision regarding what I believe or not.

Now as an adult I am not a religious follower and I don't believe in religious organizations.

Schools do influence your life when you are young and you family also, but as you get older you can make your own decisions all by yourself.

Originally posted by marg6043
Schools do influence your life when you are young and you family also, but as you get older you can make your own decisions all by yourself.

Thanks - I really cant wait.
Kegs - I was just listing similarities between my school and the book. I wasnt saying how bad socialism is.

Originally posted by DanD9
Thanks - I really cant wait.
Kegs - I was just listing similarities between my school and the book. I wasnt saying how bad socialism is.

Don't worry my two children used to said the same thing, but I made sure they kept their eyes, ears and obtions open, if you don't trust something or don't fill right about something and the way the teacher is teaching, get yourself some books or the internet and research on the subject.

It's always nice to see diferent opinions on the same thing.

heh, thanks for the advice... However I havent really listened to my teachers anyways lol j/k.


BTW People - I just wanted to talk about the school system's problems, not how bad or good a controlling government is. Oh well, you can post what you want, its not my forum Besides, I wanna know what you think of it.

He is completely right about everything. Even about being forced to acknowledge evolution. It DOES happen, you ARE affected negativly grade wise if you do not agree with what they teach. I know this from personal experience. You are brainwashed from day 1. And if you refuse to comply with their views and their system and manage to get out, guess what, you'll be living on the streets for the rest of your life.

I went to highschool for two years, and learned absolutely nothing that was not covered in middle school. I eventually worked through the holes in the system with the help of a counsler who was fully aware of the school system's true purpose and I eventually escaped the ol mind prison and worked my way to college. I had the coveted 4.0 GPA and all that jazz. I was in the most advanced english class they had at the school both years. Guess what I did in there. I read books and wrote essays about the books ALL YEAR and did absolutely nothing else. I learned nothing from this. Nobody did. I guess I could say I learned something from my math classes, but I sure as hell didn't retain a damn thing. How many adults do you know that can remember what they learned from their algebra, geometry, or calculus classes if they had them. Hmmm...I don't know a single one. I did learn a few interesting things in my science classes, but hey don't do a damn thing for me now, they don't do anything for ANYBODY. The rest of my classes were pointless wastes of time, such as ceramics, woodworking, P.E. , typing, drawing, industrial arts, blah blah blah...ALL REQUIRED. I was also forced to go to school ralleys, speeches by little known actors or actresses, and performances by the school band and drama class among other things.

My point in all this is what does the highschool system do for kids/teens? Well for me it did abosolutely nothing. It was an incredible waste of 2 years of my life. I learned nothing in high school except in history, and even then Im learning that most of taught history is a lie anyways. high school will not help me find a job, it will not help me maintain a job, it will not help me deal with any aspect of my life. Nothing in my life would be different if I never attended high school in the first place, except Id have 2 extra years that I could have done something worthwile with. I guess the only people high school may do any good for is those who struggled through the rest of their education.

As soon as I went to college everything changed. I actually learn something from the general ed classes, not to mention I get to pick what classes I wish to participate in, which are only those of which will help me with a chosen future career. What a novel concept...



People complain about the school system, about how it needs a reform and how this and that needs fixing. Hell, to those in power, the system is working perfectly.

Originally posted by DanD9
They mark you down to say, thats not what happened. The questions ask like, "how are there different species and animals?" It asks you to answer what you think happened, and if you think differently, you get marked down.
Also - maybe this is not how all schools are.

Then I'd let someone know. Complain or something... not that it'll do much good, but at least they will know that at least ONE informed person is in your school system somewhere.

I went through school in the US, albeit not public institutions (my schools weren't religious either, just as a not) but denying creationism was never forced to me... a common test question would be "explain the concept of evolution" or "the theory of evolution" not "prove why creationism is wrong."

How do schools teach you not to think for yourself? Unless your particular school is ridiculously biased in one way or another (the vast majority lean pretty left ESPECIALLY at the univeristy level - but in before uni my schools and my friends' werent RIDICULOUSLY so.) "Back in the Day" if I thought my professor was wrong I'd tell him so, and most of the time s/he was respectful. If, like in "1984" a teacher tried to convince me that "2+2=5" thereby taking his word instead of thinking for myself... I'd have to "respectfully" disagree. Then again, generally those who cannot "do", "teach"... this probably explains most of the liberal bias in schools and universities.

As for uniforms, yeah maybe it shelters kids into thinking that everyone can afford the same stuff (I had to wear a uniform from pre-Kindergarten until senior year in HS) But, in a way it actually kind of prepares kids for the real world (in an office, or job people pretty much wear the same thing - shirt and tie for white collars and standard mechanic or assembly line worker or whatever for the blue collars - - like in schools, what they wear on their own time is their business.) Plus, back then with a uniform I didn't have to think about what I wanted to wear or "did I just wear this yesterday?" Plus, you guys think public school uniforms are tough - I wasn't even in a military school and in pre-1stperiod homeroom we had to assemble one at a time at our professors desk to ensure our nails were trim, hair trim, shirts tucked, laces tied, face shaved 2x a week. Talk about comformity j/k it was professionalism.

[edit on 31-3-2005 by AlphaHumana]

I go to one of the most progressive High Schools in Australia, and its absolutely fantastic, its free dress, uncommon for Australian schools that are almost exclusively forced to wear uniforms, I did go to a School that had a uniform, but there wasn't a chance in hell I was going to wear black dress shoes when I walked to school from school and did heaps of moving around, its just not practical, needless to say that didn't sit to well with them.

As for Evolution, No one should be taught anything about Religion until their 18th birthday, when they can make up their own mind, so that it is not polluted with archaic rubbish, instead they should be immersed in Philosophy, it would make a wonderful substitute.

Everyone should deny religion, in place of philosophy it would make for a far happier world