Federal Reserve Bank Programable Digital Currency

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
in reply to: TonyS

The part about bypassing the various payment schemes is a plus, unless you like banking/credit card fees. P2P transfers will be without an added charge, unlike Venmo for example.

Of course, there have to be some extremely powerful 'conveniency' factors to sell the gullible public on such a monstrously vicious system.

Color me unsurprised you fall into that category.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
in reply to: ancientlight
"Off course they won't publicly state this, but they will add it in the long run."

Then how would you know? You have some sort of pipeline into the development process? Try reading the MIT paper before making further inane comments.

No pipeline necessary. All that is needed is the ability to comprehend reality and the simple fact that whenever the government does something big, it is never, ever, to promote liberty and freedom, but is to establish and consolidate power and control.

Those with half a clue also can plainly see that the potential for abuse of such a system is... abominable. We also understand that it doesn't matter how the system/protocols may be designed when first implemented. What matters is ... who controls the ability to change said system. That is why Bitcoin is so powerful. No one person or group does or can control it. more stringent and ironclad controls.

And I remain unsurprised that you continue to prove that you are completely devoid of said capabilities.

a reply to: ancientlight

Just my guess, but I would think they'll avoid the "social credit" system and use something without that name. In a sense, they already have. Instead of a "social credit" system, they will roll the reporting from this system into the already existing consumer credit reporting systems. Think Equifax, Experian, etc.

The result will be much the same but far less "obvious" to the drones because it works in the background. So for example, you'll have to pay more in interest to buy a diesel pickup truck, but you'll get an automatic refund or "credit back" if you buy an all electric miniture automobile.

Social engineering by any other name.

Imagine this in tandem with law enforcement highway interdiction. They can already seize your property, up to and including your house, without ever filing a criminal charge against you. They can sell your property at auction and keep the funds. You can fight it if you want to, but its going to be expensive and take years to do. Law enforcement can do all of this to you just on the idea of some criminal involvement by you. If you have a large sum of cash on you, you are suspect and your money is seized. Only criminals needs large sums of cash, apparently. It happens every day. What is stopping them from doing it with digital currency when they have complete control over all your finances?

originally posted by: tanstaafl
Of course, there have to be some extremely powerful 'conveniency' factors to sell the gullible public on such a monstrously vicious system.

So you like bank and credit card fees? Me, I like free stuff, like free P2P platforms and sending money without being charged to do so. Suckers like paying for things they don't have to.

That is why Bitcoin is so powerful. No one person or group does or can control it.

Bitcoin, LOL, okay. Bitcoin is a failed currency that cannot even replicate what my credit card/bank can do, let alone a fully digital dollar.

So when Little Billy mows your yard, you can just give him a hearty handshake.

And making a little pin money taking in laundry or sewing or a yard sale is over.

Betting pool for the Super Bowl at work? Not anymore you tax dodgers. In fact even DB’s old stripper name will soon be Imma Cash-Deal.

But if it gets drugs and guns (as private cash transfers) off the streets…right?

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: TonyS
What's not to like?

The part about bypassing the various payment schemes is a plus, unless you like banking/credit card fees. P2P transfers will be without an added charge, unlike Venmo for example.

the only part I can really grasp here, is how this might be used in the same way Canada took the money and junk from the Truckers and all who donated to them. If they had tools like this, they could do that anytime they wanted to and with ease. Afterall, what are you going to do about it?

They'll use it just like China does and attach it to your ESG score...aka social credit score. And just like China they'll be able to control what you buy, where you buy, and if you can travel

Mark my words this is the game plan, I made a post about it a few weeks ago....and I've been trying to put out the info but I feel like either people dong believe it's true or they think it can't happen

But they are already as we speak trying to pass laws in favor of ESG on our state levels, they just did it here in Idaho and there wasn't a single thing on the news about it

Most here didn't even know

Pay attention peeps.....it's coming

a reply to: tanstaafl

And past history through out our existence has shown sthat ANY TIME the gov gets ahold of something they abuse it...

EVERY.....SINGLE...TIME...

but some people keep thinking "nah it can't happen "

Civil asset forgeighture anyone???

originally posted by: nugget1
Like anything the government does, they sell it as ultra beneficial and promise any negatives have been guarded against. Give people a couple of years to adjust to the new system, then start tweaking it. Pretty soon it's nothing like the original proposal and there's no going back.

Hacking, malware, cyber attacks, grid failure are things that come to mind, in addition to already knowing how money/power-hungry politicians can take any new technology and turn it into greater control over the population.

Yup that's my fear. I don't trust this at all, I don't care what anyone here says otherwise . This will be used against us in the long run, guaranteed ('social credit score' ). You won't be able to spend your own money, that you worked for , how you like, the government/big tech will decide that

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: ancientlight

Just my guess, but I would think they'll avoid the "social credit" system and use something without that name. In a sense, they already have. Instead of a "social credit" system, they will roll the reporting from this system into the already existing consumer credit reporting systems. Think Equifax, Experian, etc.

The result will be much the same but far less "obvious" to the drones because it works in the background. So for example, you'll have to pay more in interest to buy a diesel pickup truck, but you'll get an automatic refund or "credit back" if you buy an all electric miniture automobile.

Social engineering by any other name.

Exactly, they will implement this one way or another , the name is irrelevant. That so many still don't see this is scary

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

So you like bank and credit card fees? Me, I like free stuff, like free P2P platforms and sending money without being charged to do so. Suckers like paying for things they don't have to.

I don't speak for the poster but I'd rather pay for fair service over "free stuff" that compromises my ability to freely operate...

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

So you like bank and credit card fees? Me, I like free stuff, like free P2P platforms and sending money without being charged to do so. Suckers like paying for things they don't have to.

I don't speak for the poster but I'd rather pay for fair service over "free stuff" that compromises my ability to freely operate...

Agreed Plus many , or most , of these fees can be avoided by banking more diligently.
Spending within your means etc. Not taking out cash out of non-own bank atms etc.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
I don't speak for the poster but I'd rather pay for fair service over "free stuff" that compromises my ability to freely operate...

That's your option, the USDD will not be mandatory in any realistic manner for decades. Frankly, for me not paying banking fees allows me to operate more freely. I haven't carried cash in years and use my card for everything.

originally posted by: ancientlight
Agreed

Plus many , or most , of these fees can be avoided by banking more diligently.
Spending within your means etc. Not taking out cash out of non-own bank atms etc.

How do you avoid credit card processing fees by being 'more diligent'?

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: putnam6

No worries, I'll answer what I can.

Okay, so far this seems the primary reason for doing this is fraud prevention, and even 60-70% participation would help reduce it correct? ( a good thing BTW)

I would assume all the other actual GP benefits will be here?

What about the technologically deficient?

I'm an idiot and it takes a long time for me to learn new things. I'm comfortable with cash and card.

While I find the idea novel, I was warned by my father who used to work in cybersecurity never to store my banking info on my phone for security purposes.

I know a lot of the younger set are all gung ho on their Apple Pay, Square and other phone related payment options, but as a former cashier it's overwhelming to work at a place where everyone has a different option to pay.

I like cash, I like cards. They're simple and don't require I take my phone out for no reason.

Are they planning this rollout as a default mandatory participation or as an option for those who are more adept with such a system?

Will we still be able to use the payment method we're comfortable and familiar with?

Because seriously, if it's more complicated than texting or making a phone call I can't do it on my phone.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: ancientlight
Yes ,this will be implemented with a 'social credit score' system like they have in communist China

You will have to abide by their rules or they don't allow a purchase or block your funds entirely.
And people will be mass sleep walking right into this

No more quick impulse buys, no more buying of 'bad' items, only government allowed items when and where they are 'approved' for purchase
A nightmare

That's some high level hysteria right there and not at all grounded in reality. The MIT white paper is public, there's zero in there about social credit, it's not a part of the decision making process.

A white paper like this isn't policy and I think we can expect slightly more than three pages of rules. None of the old rules are going away as they exist now, just expanded.

Lots of people are being hysterical, but there's plenty to be nervous about. They don't mention any of this in the CBDC talk because it's not part of it. The digital dollar and ledger simply have functionality, not intent. The intent is established in the policies that dictate how the ledger is used. They aren't going to tell you about how they intend to roll out Patriot Act 2.0 for Web 3.0 using the new tools available to them, all in addition to the full suite of authoritarian rules already on the books. The politicians are probably largely unaware of how it will be used, that comes through outside influence later. Even if they miraculously don't use these new powers as a bludgeon they are still accurately described as within the scope of what can be done with CBDC and digital ID.

P2P isn't going to be safe nor outside government control. They will have more control over your digital ID P2P than they do over current consumer money transfers. If they told you that they're flat out lying to you or are themselves unaware. You will be able to be blacklisted, ledger wide, and that will cover any of their digital IDs. That digital ID doesn't belong to you. It is on loan from the government and they'll be capable of shutting it down with much more surgical precision and ease than ever before, likely circumventing banks entirely and executing from a new treasury department. Even if the idiot politicians are unaware of this there are people out that have been studying it for years for the purpose of control. Those are the people who want the type of dystopian future that people fear and rightly so. Those are the people that have bought influence in DC.

It's not like they're going to lead the rollout of this with AOC saying how great the new beef quota's will be for limiting consumption. No, that's in five years after the climate has been declared a permanent national security concern. It makes people afraid because these kinds of things are very real policy goals and there is no evidence to suggest government won't use their new power in ways that contradict the spirit of our founding documents. Mission creep in federal policy is a persistent problem, often under the guise of national security.

Those applications of this new system exist. If they're not mentioning these things to you then I have to wonder why, because they will 100% be features of this system once fully implemented. While there's no need for this to be taken to dystopian levels, it will be take to dystopian levels barring dramatic global political upheaval. We don't even need for them to tell us this, though they have, because it's an inevitable outcome of greater control. The government doesn't just get new powers and not use them. It doesn't happen and there's no reason to expect this to be any different.

Government control of personal life is only a benefit for the government and the people that influence them. All of the utility of CBDC could be provided without the jackboots, but there is no outcome where that happens. There's no reason for any regular person to expect this won't be used against them even if only a tiny fraction of the population are ever directly impacted. The CBDC applications could be used for new and innovative audits of government agencies to better track waste and abuse, but in reality will be used to flag Ma and Pa shopkeeper's bank account after triggering an algorithm for suspicious activity.

I'd be happy to be wrong, but there aren't many ways I see for that to be possible in this case.

originally posted by: putnam6
Okay, so far this seems the primary reason for doing this is fraud prevention, and even 60-70% participation would help reduce it correct? ( a good thing BTW)

I would assume all the other actual GP benefits will be here?

That's one of the papers, there's another I linked in a previous thread. It's a combination of reasons, ease of use, fraud, traceability, instant payments (settlement can be an issue at times).

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I don't think a lot of people realize card processors get 2%~ on their transactions.

Seeing as almost all transactions are done with cards now, that's an extra tax on everyone.

We do need an alternative. Our country should have control over our own currency, not some transnational corporations who can turn off your card for their perceived morals whole charging you for using the money you earned.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: ancientlight
Agreed

Plus many , or most , of these fees can be avoided by banking more diligently.
Spending within your means etc. Not taking out cash out of non-own bank atms etc.

How do you avoid credit card processing fees by being 'more diligent'?

If you mean with bill payments , then I just pay directly from my bank account, no fees in that. Also I only use a debit card .

originally posted by: Ksihkehe
A white paper like this isn't policy and I think we can expect slightly more than three pages of rules. None of the old rules are going away as they exist now, just expanded.

Of course, but the Fed won't be setting the rules, we know who does that.

Lots of people are being hysterical, but there's plenty to be nervous about. They don't mention any of this in the CBDC talk because it's not part of it. The digital dollar and ledger simply have functionality, not intent. The intent is established in the policies that dictate how the ledger is used.

Which I'm trying to convey but the hysterics think the digital currency somehow leads to things they can already do, like seize your assets.

They aren't going to tell you about how they intend to roll out Patriot Act 2.0 for Web 3.0 using the new tools available to them, all in addition to the full suite of authoritarian rules already on the books. The politicians are probably largely unaware of how it will be used, that comes through outside influence later. Even if they miraculously don't use these new powers as a bludgeon they are still accurately described as within the scope of what can be done with CBDC and digital ID.

I don't disagree. Politicians, lobbied by outside influence, can make a mess of this. The platform by itself is very secure, it's all the loopholes they may or may not create.

P2P isn't going to be safe nor outside government control. They will have more control over your digital ID P2P than they do over current consumer money transfers.

I have to disagree here, you will be able to freely exchange currency P2P without having to go out of the handshake ot verify as the money was already verified at disbursal. Until that dollar goes back to a bank or the Fed it can be moved from person to person without much in the way of traceability, and this is the caveat, as the system is proposed to work now. Can something be added in where each P2P exchange has to punch out? I suppose, but that's not in the initial scope.

That digital ID doesn't belong to you. It is on loan from the government and they'll be capable of shutting it down with much more surgical precision and ease than ever before, likely circumventing banks entirely and executing from a new treasury department.

Explain the how you think the mechanism would function in the scheme, please. The 62443 standard prevents this type of action at the moment, they'd need to completely change the standards.