The Great Pyramid's 'Phantom Chamber'

originally posted by: Halfswede
I just want to point out to anyone who missed it that the image in the OP, while intriguing, is in their own words the result of them putting a "model" void in the peak in systematic (Monte Carlo) spherical instantiations to make sure the detector will catch an actual void of those sizes.

It should be made extra clear that the image in the OP is not based on anything but a model in an effort to prove that when they do an actual scan of the pyramid, it will actually locate true voids of this size range (1-6m).

It is good work to prove the results, and again, I'm not suggesting there is no void or downplaying the effort, just clarifying if anyone is looking at the pic thinking that came from a pyramid scan.

Hi,



The GP model image speculates another chamber may exist based on micro-gravity density variations near the top of the GP. I had thought this was clear enough but thanks for clarifying.

SC

originally posted by: Scott Creighton

originally posted by: Halfswede
I just want to point out to anyone who missed it that the image in the OP, while intriguing, is in their own words the result of them putting a "model" void in the peak in systematic (Monte Carlo) spherical instantiations to make sure the detector will catch an actual void of those sizes.

It should be made extra clear that the image in the OP is not based on anything but a model in an effort to prove that when they do an actual scan of the pyramid, it will actually locate true voids of this size range (1-6m).

It is good work to prove the results, and again, I'm not suggesting there is no void or downplaying the effort, just clarifying if anyone is looking at the pic thinking that came from a pyramid scan.

Hi,



The GP model image speculates another chamber may exist based on micro-gravity density variations near the top of the GP. I had thought this was clear enough but thanks for clarifying.

SC

Yes. Other measurements -- which do no create such a clear distinction and are unrelated to the image shown are what triggered the speculation. I just didn't want anyone looking at the image of simulated data and saying, "Obviously something is there". Some people just look at headlines and pictures.

Don't get me wrong. This is good research and the right way to go about calibrating/baselining the actual scans.

a reply to: Scott Creighton

Hi Scott, this is very interesting news for sure!

It also forces us to revisit your earlier thread about, "Who was Khufu?"

And was there only one Khufu or multiple? Was the original Khufu one and the same as Surid from the Arabic source? Was the second Khufu ruling thousands of years later in the Egyptian 4th Dynasty? Or, are you still suggesting that the 4th Dynasty was displaced? I think it is vastly more likely that the 4th Dynasty Khufu was simply emulating the original Khufu.

To that point, if the 4th Dynasty Khufu wanted to emulate the archetype, then a logical place for him to create a burial chamber (in a pre-existing Great Pyramid) was at the very top of the Great Pyramid, especially if the top was already somewhat damaged and needed "repair work". He could place his family and immediate ancestors in that chamber. But, I'm not sure he would have ordered that his own mummy be placed there. The original Khufu was not overly concerned about his mummy. The god Ra was not a "big believer" in woo (lol). Ra was the rational, scientist archetype.

Regardless, if mummies are found in that upper void, they aren't necessarily from the end of the last Ice Age.

Just don't tell Howard-Vice (sic) about any of these chambers, okay??

a reply to: Scott Creighton

Thanks for the detailed reply, very interesting and I wasn’t aware of the pyramids being equated with Osiris. Much food for thought, I will definitely have to check the locations of the other pyramids along the Nile as I haven’t seen this pattern correlation before.

The theory about the grand gallery is also compelling. If the kings chamber was intended as a decoy though, as you suggested to another poster, why place the statues in the grand gallery where they could be discovered? Also I have read it was only discovered because a granite slab fell revealing the entrance when the pillagers were quarrying their way into it. Even the entrance was hidden with only a rumour to go on that it was in the north face. Perhaps it was all an elaborate decoy I have no idea. But there are still mystery’s about it which is why I suggest it was multi functional. The subtle eight sides for instance. Also there are claims of stones in the passages that could well conceal other chambers or passage ways.

Thanks for posting the link I’m looking forward to digging deeper.

a reply to: Scott Creighton

I love this post!

originally posted by: CharlesNPope
a reply to: Scott Creighton

Hi Scott, this is very interesting news for sure!

It also forces us to revisit your earlier thread about, "Who was Khufu?"

And was there only one Khufu or multiple? Was the original Khufu one and the same as Surid from the Arabic source? Was the second Khufu ruling thousands of years later in the Egyptian 4th Dynasty? Or, are you still suggesting that the 4th Dynasty was displaced? I think it is vastly more likely that the 4th Dynasty Khufu was simply emulating the original Khufu.

The AE priest Manetho names 'Suphis' as the builder of the GP. The Arabic translators of the Coptic Egyptian tradition names Saurid as the builder. The scholar Sandor Fodor thinks these may be one and the same person and that the different names came about as the result of a copyist's error somewhere along the line:

"Manetho names the second ruler of the IVth Dynasty Σοūφις [Sufis], and he is in fact Kheops . . . the name Σοūφις could easily have been misread by the translator or copyist as Σοūριδ, thus furnishing the base for the Arabic form Sūrīd.” - Fodor, Origins of the Arabic Legends, 357.

Notice how the Greek spelling of Suphis (Σοūφις) and Saurid (Σοūριδ) are very similar and if we then add some poor or faded handwriting to the mix, we could quite easily end up with Saurid from what was originally Suphis.

But the Greeks also named the builder of the GP as 'Kheops or Cheops'. So the question is - were Kheops and Suphis the same person? I have never discounted the possibility of a king from later AE dynasties also having been named after the GP builder. Here in the UK we have had many kings and queens down the centuries with the same name (as have the AEs). My view also of the inscriptions that read "Followers of Khufu" or "Friends of Khufu" was some kind of cult following and who made these inscriptions long after Khufu lived (possibly thousands of years afterwards). Even today, thousands of years after Christ walked the Earth, we have cults naming themselves 'Followers of Christ' and even 'Friends of Christ'.

CNP: To that point, if the 4th Dynasty Khufu wanted to emulate the archetype, then a logical place for him to create a burial chamber (in a pre-existing Great Pyramid) was at the very top of the Great Pyramid, especially if the top was already somewhat damaged and needed "repair work". He could place his family and immediate ancestors in that chamber.

Khufu had 27 ancestor kings and their queens. If the GG pavement notches were made to hold ka statues of these kings and queens as substitutes for the souls of those interred in the Big Void, then the mummified bodies of Khufu's mom and dad (his immediate ancestors) are likely to have been placed in the Big Void, being the last in the line of 27 kings and queens.

It is certainly a nice idea that if there did exist another (later) AE king named Khufu (not the original), then it's possible that he might have done what you suggest. I hadn't actually thought about that. My instinct tells me, though, that if this possible 'Phantom Chamber' near the top of the GP does exist in reality, then it was likely built as part of the original construction some 12,000 years ago as the true burial chamber of the original Khufu. I absolutely do not insist I am correct in this - it's just my speculation.

SC

originally posted by: surfer_soul
a reply to: Scott Creighton

Thanks for the detailed reply, very interesting and I wasn’t aware of the pyramids being equated with Osiris. Much food for thought, I will definitely have to check the locations of the other pyramids along the Nile as I haven’t seen this pattern correlation before.

The pattern in the previous image is a more stylized 'compressed' version of the actual pyramid arrangement which you can see below:



As you can see, the spatial distances between the nodes are different but still we can observe the basic stick outline of the classic Osiris figure with the distinctive 3-pronged atef crown tilted backwards and the crook and flail. I think the more important point here is that the Pyramid Texts tell us quite clearly that the pyramid(s) are Osiris. We are told also that the body of Osiris was cut into 14/16 pieces and scattered throughout the land and this is the number of completed pyramids the AEs built in this early period. Also noteworthy here is that Isis, the wife of Osiris, is known by the epithet, 'Isis, Mistress of the Pyramid(s)'. If the pyramids are the body of Osiris laid on the ground then this epithet of Isis makes perfect sense - she is the Mistress of the Pyramids (the pyramids being Osiris).

The theory about the grand gallery is also compelling. If the kings chamber was intended as a decoy though, as you suggested to another poster, why place the statues in the grand gallery where they could be discovered?

The KC may have acted as a decoy but, as I said elsewhere, I think its presence served mainly as the centre of a deeply chthonic and sacred ritual that concerned the rebirth of the Earth (of the AE kingdom after the deluge). The stone box in this chamber would have been filled with earth with a scattering of various seeds on top, symbolising the hoped for rebirth of life, of the Earth. I do not say this simply as speculation - there is some evidence to support this idea. In 1818, Giovanni Belzoni, while exploring the 2nd big pyramid at Giza (G2), eventually managed to prise open the granite container in that pyramid. What he found was a box full of plain old Egyptian earth and stones among which he also found fragments of bone from a bull (the bull was a symbol of the rebirth god Osiris). So - the stone boxes found in these pyramids have not been known to hold the body of an AE king but have been found to contain plain old Egyptian earth which I believe was part of a deep chthonic ritual about the rebirth of the earth after the coming deluge. There is further evidence related to this but I'll leave that for the moment.

The ka statues had to be placed somewhere and in AE tombs they were usually placed lower than the mummified body. That the GG has a passgaeway leading to it from the pyramid's original entrance suggests that the GG (and possibly the KC & QC) likely also held recovery items. There is some considerable evidence that suggests these chambers were not as secure as the AEs could have made them and that the builders actually invited their exploration. If so, then this suggests that the builders were not overly concerned about the statues therein, perhaps (wrongly) believing that they had made it near impossible for them to be removed. I talk about this in my book. More important to remove would have been the recovery items placed there.

Also I have read it was only discovered because a granite slab fell revealing the entrance when the pillagers were quarrying their way into it. Even the entrance was hidden with only a rumour to go on that it was in the north face. Perhaps it was all an elaborate decoy I have no idea. But there are still mystery’s about it which is why I suggest it was multi functional. The subtle eight sides for instance. Also there are claims of stones in the passages that could well conceal other chambers or passage ways.

During experiments with small model pyramids, researchers found that the 8-sided pyramid was the most effective at reducing the rate of organic decay. Again, I write about this in my book.

SC

a reply to: Scott Creighton

Based upon what we see in TT/DB320, I totally agree that mummies of "ancestors" were placed in the Great Pyramid.

I also think the 4th Dynasty Khufu would have emulated that same practice in his own time, hence all the missing mummies. But, where were they gathered? One source says that Khufu was buried in a subterranean location. However, we would expect for a larger 4th Dynasty "mummy cache" to be placed in an elevated location, such as at the top of the Great Pyramid.

Yet, based upon the recent commentary of the Westcar Papyrus, it doesn't look like the 4th Dynasty Khufu did anything too significant with the Great Pyramid, and he just kicked that project down the road (maybe to the 5th Dynasty). So, I have to also agree that the "Upper Void" of the GP was likely an original feature.

originally posted by: Scott Creighton

...

My view also of the inscriptions that read "Followers of Khufu" or "Friends of Khufu" was some kind of cult following and who made these inscriptions long after Khufu lived (possibly thousands of years afterwards).

...

The hieroglyphic characters read śmrw ˤpr (“semeru aper”).. This means "friends of Khufu" (or "Companions of Khufu.")

"Friends of Khufu" was the name of a particular work crew who were working on a particular section of the relieving chambers (as described in detail here (pg. 125-7).

Regrettably, Hawass is depicted in a clip here (at 01:43) as misreading part of the name of this crew as smsw. Smsw in fact refers to an entirely different crew name (for more details, see here). For further explanation, see also here.

Your proposal that ""Friends of Khufu" was some kind of cult following," taken to its logical extreme, would mean that all such work crew names have been misread, and are in fact the names of later cults (as discussed in detail here. )

This is, to say the least, highly unlikely.

Although he bore several different royal names, the evidence points to there being being only one king Khufu, who lived and died in the third millennium at the end of the Fourth Dynasty. His pyramid tomb ("Akhet Khufu") was built by workers whose different teams often incorporated one of Khufu's names.

a reply to: Hooke

The orthodox view with regards to these marks has been known for quite some time now. Thanks.

SC

a reply to: Scott Creighton

Recently, when I was revisiting this topic, I read that a "gang" working on the 3rd Pyramid called themselves the "Drunks of Menkhaure" (or something to that effect). This name strongly suggested to me that they were aware of the typecasting of Menkhaure as an Osiris figure, and specifically in contrast to Khufu (modelled after Ra) and Khafre (modelled after Horus the Elder). How that might effect the interpretation of names chosen for other "gangs" I'm not sure, but it did seem significant to me.

The aggregate evidence (that list of 30 items now figuratively nailed to Zahi's front door) unequivocally rejects a 4th Dynasty Khufu as original builder of the Great Pyramid.

originally posted by: CharlesNPope
a reply to: Scott Creighton

Recently, when I was revisiting this topic, I read that a "gang" working on the 3rd Pyramid called themselves the "Drunks of Menkhaure" (or something to that effect). This name strongly suggested to me that they were aware of the typecasting of Menkhaure as an Osiris figure, and specifically in contrast to Khufu (modelled after Ra) and Khafre (modelled after Horus the Elder). How that might effect the interpretation of names chosen for other "gangs" I'm not sure, but it did seem significant to me.

...

What you had in mind was probably:

... the burial chambers of pyramid III-b were cleared out by Vyse ... On one of the limestone slabs composing the roof of the burial chamber were a number of hieroglyphic signs written in red, some of which Vyse copied ... These include the name of Mycerinus in a cartouche,Pl. XI, No. xvii; and the whole was probably the name of the crew “Mycerinus-is-drunk” (Reisner, Mycerinus: 63).

It's this that Roth is referring to in Phyles: 128:

... a pattern can be seen in the placement of the blocks of the two gangs. Where they are preserved, the gang, phyle, and division name on each of the blocks in this course is indicated in figure 7.3. The two inscriptions that name the gang "The Companions of Menkaure," which each occur with a different phyle, are located in the southern half of the mortuary temple, while the thirteen references to the gang "The Drunks of Menkaure," [35] on nine different blocks, all occur in the northern half of the temple. All the texts are located in a small, well-defined area: the large triangular area behind the open court of the upper temple and the complexes of rooms on either side of it. About a third of the blocks that comprise the second course of masonry in this area bear phyle names, so the distribution of gang names on these blocks is not likely to be coincidental.

[35] The word is quite clearly thw rather than rhw despite the gang of Unis, Hr-nbw-w3d rhw,
which is depicted on his causeway ...

As far as I know, the name of the work crew was nothing to do with Osiris. Some of the names were ironic, bordering on the impertinent: the sort of names that workmen anywhere might choose for themselves.

a reply to: Hooke

Drinking (wine) and drunkenness were associated with the Osiris (Dionysos) type. Modern day work gangs typically prefer beer. Not trying to make too much out of this curious bit of trivia. Could just be a universal, stereotypical "blue collar" thing (lol). However recognizing the extensive role playing in ancient Egypt is a key to understanding the "big picture" of pharaonic history and why there is such a high degree of coherency from beginning to end. Jan Assmann in The Mind of Egypt is an interesting read along those lines, but doesn't take it nearly far enough.

originally posted by: just4fun

originally posted by: Brotherman
It’s insane for all these centuries people have been trying to understand the pyramids but people can’t because we don’t even fully know what’s inside it’s architecture. In todays world of technology why is it so taboo to drill holes and probe the thing already? We can’t really understand anything till we actually know about what’s inside, am I 😑?

I believe its because they actually know pretty much everything about it and are hiding it from us.

The old CIA Kryptos puzzle is evidence that the Great Pyramid was still relevant in the NWO from about the mid 1850's.
Not really sure who they are but there is probably anecdotal evidence.

History of the Muon telescope is also interesting 21/15?

[Once I had published my seminal 1934 paper on particle interaction] I felt like a traveler who rests himself at a small tea shop at the top of a mountain slope.

originally posted by: CharlesNPope
a reply to: Scott Creighton

The aggregate evidence (that list of 30 items now figuratively nailed to Zahi's front door) unequivocally rejects a 4th Dynasty Khufu as original builder of the Great Pyramid.

As a matter of interest, what are these thirty items? Or where can the list be found?

originally posted by: CharlesNPope
a reply to: Hooke

Drinking (wine) and drunkenness were associated with the Osiris (Dionysos) type.

...

The work-crew name "Drunkards of Menkaure" refers to Menkaure only. I know of no evidence that it has any connection with Osiris (whose name does not appear in royal and noble tombs until the Fifth Dynasty).

a reply to: Halfswede

Picked that up too, they also used uniform limestone for the whole pyramid. The whole pyramid is solid without seems and throughout uniform in the simulation.

Also the concavity of the outer walls was not taken into consideration. Measurements used seem sketchy.

a reply to: ThatDamnDuckAgain
The 8 sided concavity may have just been a design feature that allowed shadow play finish work at night.
A torch lit at one of the corners would create a shadow behind any convex area.
Not really a laser guide technology but similar concept.

a reply to: fromunclexcommunicate
Indeed.

But you sure understand and agree, that in order to simulate a geometric object that is handled as a representation of real life objects, is completely useless when

- the geometry isn't the same
- the dimensions are arbitrary picked (watch the video on page 1 it will jump out on you)
- the materials are simplified down to solid limestone
- no block's taken into consideration, the whole thing is solid with no seams or blocks at all.

Basically what we have is a pretty picture of a simulation that proves nothing. The claim of the study:

Study reveals the Great Pyramid of Giza can focus electromagnetic energy

should read

Study reveals that plain simulated pyramids with the crude dimensions of the Giza Pyramid, can focus electromagnetic energy

a reply to: Hooke

Those 30 items were presented in the previous thread ("Logarithmic Path of the Poles"), which you posted on, but evidently didn't bother to read.