The trap of John Titor's

This may well be the most controversial post I put up here on ATS, but my concern over people's belief in John Titor is such that I don't care.

As I've posted here, I think that, if John Titor is real, that he's a false prophet, and worse, a liar that wants to destroy America. Look at what's happening in the US right now. The political divide is worse than it ever has been, and it seems to be getting worse. This is pretty obvious to almost anyone. Thought experiment: if person surrenders to this belief that America is bound for civil, does that not make the person more prone to firing the first shot in this supposed civil war? Corrolary: such a person may find strong evidence of such considering the similarities between the red states and the blue states, and the division in our first civil war. We need to re-learn how to sit down and debate the issues in a civil manner.

So let's stop believing the lie of John Titor before things get really bad. At the very least, realize that this isn't his universe (supposedly), and while there may well be striking similarities in histories, that does not mean that our futures are the same. Also, as I said before:

Besides, none of us leftists have guns anyway, so you conservatives would have no challenge in defeating us.

Interesting idea. I never thought if it that way. Who's to say he didn't travel back in time to set up a civil war? (If he did exist at all) I still find the whole idea unbelievable, but if it were true this would definately be an intersting twist on the story.

really, I don't believe enough people in the US have heard of John Titor's, so I can't see how his words could have had the influence to cause the division that we have.....it's more like the politicians, desiring power, and unquestionable support for their policies that seem to have the most influence in that regard.

although, if a prophecy has well known, like the one regarding Armegeddon, well, then I believe that enough people could allow their belief to effect their actions enough to influence the events in that direction.

and well, although our future is not set in stone on a point by point scale, some things are.....just like it is pretty much realistic to expect it to start getting warmer and the snow to melt real soon.....this is a pretty visable cycle that we just kind of accept.....spring will follow winter, which will follow fall which will follow summer, which will follow spring....
the earth has many, many cycles, most are not so easily visable, and well, human behavior when talking about masses of people are also pretty much predictable.
if we were indeed to go into part of a cycle that would cause resources such as food to be scarce, it would be really predictable that squabbling and warfare would follow. that would be human nature. Thus, as the resources dry up, in the US even, and the haves make sure they get their share before the have nots, well, the logical assumption would be for the have nots to take what they need to survive......

I had an interesting conversation with a bloke today about how some US states are "going against" the patriot act and are trying to legislate against the federal law as they believe the patriot act is very bad...he also mentioned "apparently" the states don't want their officers involved in this cilvil liberty crackdown.

I thought about this and wondered whether the "civil war" that JT mentioned was the federal government against the local governments?

Just a thought...

Looked on the search engines and found something about 20 states going against the feds but could find no more.

Two questions:

1) Does anyone know any more of this

2) If the states went against the feds, how would that develop - ie what forces would be loyal to what government

BTW, this bloke hadn't even heard of JT.

Cheers

JS

So many people here at ATS, including at least one moderator, have told us how it was discovered that Titor built up his fake story by following closely the plot of Pat Frank's novel Alas Babylon, about life in Florida in the aftermath of a nuclear war, yet so many others keep wondering whether or not Titor is a real person. Maybe these other people think that Pat Frank traveled to the future, interviewed Titor, returned and wrote the novel before Titor payed us a visit???

Originally posted by Macrento
Pat Frank's novel Alas Babylon, about life in Florida in the aftermath of a nuclear war

This is merely a coincidence. Think about it, if this were some elaborate hoax, and the person that claims he is John Titor has read Alas Babylon, wouldn’t you think he would have changed the location besides retaining the same area as Florida for his Time Travelling hoax?

And besides, a post-apocalyptic Florida is only one aspect of the John Titor story and probably the least interesting. He welcomed a blitzkrieg of questioning about the science behind 'Time Travel' and answered every one, including diagrams, pictures...etc

I think the Alas Babylon book is merely a bandwagon in which people use to 'prove' that Titor is indeed a fake. Let me ask you, have you ever read Alas Babylon before?

Originally posted by jumpspace
I had an interesting conversation with a bloke today about how some US states are "going against" the patriot act and are trying to legislate against the federal law as they believe the patriot act is very bad...

JS

I seriously doubt this would start a civil war.
First, the Patriot act has already been in place for several years and most of the people could care less.

Second, those people that don't believe in the Patriot Act believe the Courts will rule it unconstitutional.

Everyone thought we would see a court ruling by now on the Patriot Act. The States that are passing laws against the Patriot Act are doing so to appease voters and would probably never enforce their rule.

Who can say whether or not Titor was a hoax? All I know is there would have to be a huge event that occurs to motivate Americans to civil war. What is going to get me off the couch and away from American Idol to take up arms against another American? What could happen to make me want to put my beer and pizza down and go dodge bullets?

The closest I have been to really upset is when McDonalds proposed to take away the supersize menu (decision was reversed - phew!). Life is so easy in this country I cannot possibly forecast a civil war as of yet.

supercheetah is right. This makes a lot of sense when you think about it. The power of thought is an amazing and powerful thing. Think positive and be positive and you will surely get positive results.

Thanks for the clarification Qwas

Cheers

JS

[edit on 1-4-2005 by jumpspace]

(posted by Simulacra)
Let me ask you, have you ever read Alas Babylon before?

No because if you've wasted a great deal of time in your life then you will feel like it's a horrible waste of more time if you read anything other than nonfiction. However, if you will be so kind as to e-mail it to me or somehow throw a copy of the book in my general direction I will make an exception and read it with boundless joy in my heart.
*

Originally posted by Macrento
it's a horrible waste of more time if you read anything other than nonfiction.

You know I completely feel the same way. That's why I was hoping that you read Alas Babylon because I have no intentions to.

From the New Republic re: the Schiavo case suggesting the culture wars could become a civil war.

"I couldn't get out of my mind a diagram from a history textbook that listed the causes of the Civil War next to a thermometer with the temperature rising until it reached the boiling point, from the Missouri Compromise of 1820 and the Nullification Crisis of 1832 to the ominous decade of the 1850s--the Compromise of 1850 and the Fugitive Slave Law; the 1854 Kansas-Nebraska Act and the years of violence known as "Bleeding Kansas"; the 1857 Dred Scott Supreme Court decision; John Brown's raid on Harpers Ferry in 1859; and finally, Lincoln's election in 1860. At every point, the people living through these conflicts did not recognize them as the fateful events that would lead them headlong into civil war. Will some true believer presently unknown to us violently take matters into his or her own hands so that he or she will one day occupy a similar place in history as John Brown? History, of course, never repeats itself, but I couldn't help wondering, are we now living through what, from the perspective of future generations, will turn out to have been another such fateful time? Or will it instead appear as just another episode in the history of fervent religiosity that periodically convulses American society, inevitably exhausts itself, and then lies dormant in the underground of consciousness until the next time?"

I'd link to the whole article, but its only accessible to subscribers.



[edit on 1-4-2005 by greenturtle]

I not sure this is the right place, but since it's about time traveling claims, what ever happend to the stocks guy that got busted shortly after sept. 11 for suspicious trading. I'm sure a few people here remember the case he had made a few millions or something with what had to be inside information or something and nobody could explain how he did it, he claimed to be from the future and that's how he got the information for what to trade. This case has always stayed in the back of my mind, does any body know what happend here?

If we found out 9/11 was an inside job I can see that igniting civil unrest. JT said that it would start out slowly and by 2008 we would know beyond a doubt that we would never be the same. We were in civil war and had lost our rights.

(posted by Simulacra)
(...) I was hoping that you read Alas Babylon because I have no intentions to.

You can hardly imagine how funny this sounded. There you were, challenging someone because he dared talk about a book that he probably hadn't even read, and now it turns out that, not only have you not read it either, but you never will.
*

Originally posted by Macrento
You can hardly imagine how funny this sounded. There you were, challenging someone because he dared talk about a book that he probably hadn't even read, and now it turns out that, not only have you not read it either, but you never will.
*

I'm not sure what you mean about 'challenging', I was wanted to know if you read Alas Babylon because I sure havent. Although I know that the basis of the story is about a post-apocalyptic Florida, this is the only aspect of the story that correlates with each other. Therefore it's absurd to say that he 'stole' the concept from the book.

This is actually what I said:

Originally posted by Simulacra
I think the Alas Babylon book is merely a bandwagon in which people use to 'prove' that Titor is indeed a fake. Let me ask you, have you ever read Alas Babylon before?

I'm not sure what you mean about 'challenging'(...).

It certainly sounded like a taunt: "All right, so tell us: have you ever so much as read the first chapter? Just say 'yes' or 'no'."
"Uuuuuhhmm...not really, no."
"So go read the book. Then come back and review it for us."
"...but...but...uh..."
"Now what! Go read. Off you go!"

(...) it's absurd to say that he 'stole' the concept from the book.

It wasn't just Alas, Babylon. He went around stealing right & left: Michio Kaku's novel Hyperspace, the 1995 movie "12 Monkeys", the timeline for GURPS (General Universal RolePlaying Game), developed back in 1986....
*

I was just thinking recently, Maybe he works for a real estate company place in Omaha Nebraska. lol. Since he made it pretty clear that omaha was for the most part untouched throughout this entire ordeal. Maybe he thought he could convince people to move there, thus giving him more business. lol. And all of the other info was..um...just for fun, i guess.

John Titor seems to be quite popular, and some people are deliberately pushing his threads. But why? Who the hell is interested in this phantom?! ATS has prooved many times that he is a hoaxer, a complete liar.

And where does that interest in him comes from? Who cares? He is nobody!!!